Viewing 39 posts - 41 through 79 (of 79 total)
  • Great news on the unemployment figures.
  • Solo
    Free Member

    It’s really quite surprising that anyone is getting frothed up about 31,000 roles lost in the NHS on four counts:

    May be. But do not let that get in the way of a politically motivated, lefty rant.
    To be posted on a slow, foggy thursday.

    It would be more efficient if we just had a ” Put your hands up if you hate the Cons ” thread.

    But not as flammable.

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    grum – Member

    teamhurtmore, straw man argument there – we’ve already established that we’re not arguing they’ve deliberately targeted them. Those are just the people they care least about. You don’t seem too bothered about the unfair impact on them either tbh. Pretty facetious to argue ‘it’s all just statistics’ or whatever.

    Grum – its not true to argue that (1) I have made a straw man arguments or (2) that I am not too bothered – again read my first post on the topic.

    complacent to think that it marks anything other than a stabilisation of a sorry state for overall employment.

    You are correct that my choice of statistics was absurd – of course it was, that was the whole point – its ridiculous to attribute false causations and policy accusations from these statistics. Its absurd to accuse the Tories of favouring Pakistanis over South Africans in exactly the same way as suggesting that they have an anti-woman, anti-black etc agenda.

    We are making the same point.

    [edit – if you want to make false and facetious point though, simply add financial services employers to the target list]

    MSP
    Full Member

    But do not let that get in the way of a politically motivated, lefty rant.

    On a thread started by woppit, that really is irony at its finest.

    julianwilson
    Free Member

    mcboo – Member

    You guys are a bit mental. You honestly think people on the right think as they do out of some self interested class hatred.

    Where savings are to be made or revenue to be raised, governments will always look after their friends/voters/those who have made considerable donations to the party, and screw over their own supporters over last of all. As true for any Labour government as it is for this one.
    It is not a question of self interested class hatred, it is more a question of how much you fall for the spin of your chosen political party and believe that they are acting in the interest of everyone rather than just those who they think will vote for them next time round. (again, I mean this for all three big parties supporters)

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    mcboo – Member

    You guys are a bit mental. You honestly think people on the right think as they do out of some self interested class hatred.

    I don’t know about a bit mental, but you definitely have to be a bit dopey and docile if you think the likes of the Bullingdon Boys entered politics because they had a burning desire to achieve a better life for the ordinary working man and woman.

    Lifer
    Free Member

    I wouldn’t say ‘self-interested class hated’ just ‘not interested’.

    grum
    Free Member
    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    I wouldn’t say ‘self-interested class hated’ just ‘not interested’.

    Obviously they are not motivated by “hatred” felt for working people. Clearly it would make no sense to hate those responsible for the material wealth which they enjoy. It would be like a factory owner hating his employees – plainly stupid. And I don’t think anyone has suggested such a thing, except in mcboo’s imagination.

    Of course they might well “hate” philosophies and policies which frustrate their ambitions, and indeed they do.

    What does however motivate right-wing politicians is a desire to redistribute wealth away from ordinary working people and towards the privileged few – self interest is an overriding factor, as it is of course with those who oppose them.

    And far from being “not interested” in the effect of their economic policies, they understandably take a very keen interest. No one who wants maximum return for the minimum cost is going to ignore such matters.

    Once again if you take my factory owner, no one would expect him to be “not interested” in what his employees are earning – he needs to be certain that he is paying the minimum he can get away with, he certainly isn’t going to pay more than he needs to as it would make no business sense at all.

    Although needless to say he might well be hugely uninterested if the wages he is paying leaves his employees unable to afford a holiday, struggling to pay bills, etc. Unless of course it results in his employees leaving to work elsewhere – in which case he’s not paying what he needs to.

    Similarly, right-wing politicians have to ensure they do the minimum required to stop their voters buggering off. And in the case of the present government the staggering number of U-turns that they have preformed in a relatively short period of time testifies to the fact that they only do what they can get away with.

    Of course politicians and governments do have one extraordinarily powerful weapon in their armoury, and that is access, and to a large extent control, of the media. Getting turkeys to vote for Christmas is never going to be an easy venture, but the sophisticated and slick machine which constantly drip-feeds people the message that there is no alternative to paying large amounts of money to those responsible for screwing the country, whilst simultaneously everyone else makes crippling sacrifices, has had considerable success.

    mcboo
    Free Member

    Of course politicians and governments do have one extraordinarily powerful weapon in their armoury, and that is access, and to a large extent control, of the media.

    Oh look its the Dacre Effect. In the absense of an argument, blame the public for reading newspapers you dont like. Go on give us a lecture on False Consciousness, I havent heard about that since around 1989. Very popular with the Glaswegian SWP.

    julianwilson
    Free Member

    In the absense of an argument, blame the public for reading newspapers you dont like.

    McBoo, I thought his argument was in the first 7 paragraphs. Browser not behaving this morning? 😉

    [edit]Although I think it runs a lot deeper than newspapers, it also seems to be getting harder to dismiss the ‘Dacre Effect’ when you have News Corp/Sun being so frank (as in three inch capitals on front page iirc) about backing Nulab and then later on doing the same and backing the Conservatives, and the whole Coulson/Racehorse/whatever else business. And I level this criticism at both parties BTW, Blair invested a considerable amount of energy and money courting the media and clearly it paid off.

    richmars
    Full Member

    What does however motivate right-wing politicians is a desire to redistribute wealth away from ordinary working people and towards the privileged few – self interest is an overriding factor, as it is of course with those who oppose them.

    In other words, greed.
    Which is just as prevalent with left wing politicians as right wing politicians.
    Self interest is the over-riding consideration with all politicians.

    julianwilson
    Free Member

    In other words, greed.
    Which is just as prevalent with left wing politicians as right wing politicians.
    Self interest is the over-riding consideration with all politicians.

    Agreed. The genuinely passionate and principled people get chewed up and spat out, or just ‘party whipped’ into voting with their parties a good while before they ever get a chance to make a difference.

    Notwithstanding the interests of their financial backers, the left have traditionally been in the fortuitous position of being able to be a bit more open about the motivation behind their redistribution of wealth though. That is beacuse their basic ‘redistribution of wealth’ message is generally easier for the majority of people to swallow, not because they are any better at lying though.

    We all know every successful politician and political party has a finger in a pie somewhere, and several other friends with several other fingers, but the left seem to have had an easier time of saying ‘rich people are too rich’ than the right have had. How on earth do you articulate the notion that ‘the rich aren’t as rich as they deserve to be and you are paying’ to your working (and I mean taxpaying!) class voters?

    hora
    Free Member

    Theres a lodge in the grounds of the big divisional Police station here in Manchester. Its windows are covered in ‘UNISON’ banners.

    Every day I go past there are a few fat women stood outside smoking. Every so often there is a couple of undernourished men stood with them.

    My view of Unison members is now coloured by these fine people.

    mcboo
    Free Member

    What does however motivate right-wing politicians is a desire to redistribute wealth away from ordinary working people and towards the privileged few

    If you really believe this you need to expand your circle of aquaintances. Matthew Paris wrote an article a few years ago I will try and find, putting forward the position that it was his desire to see EVERYONE better off, and more free that drove him to become a Conservative. It’s fine to put forward say a Keynsian argument as the best way to get the economy growing, there might be something in it, though it’s not my own point of view. What I cant stand is this tired, lazy attempt to paint everyone right of centre as conspiring to stick it to the working man, that moral purity lives only with the left.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    You must be gutted that there is no UK equivalent to the US Tea Party mcboo. You strike me as someone who would enthusiastically champion an agenda dictated to you by billionaires, and act as their doormat supporting policies detrimental to yourself so that they can increase even more their wealth and power.

    Of course I’m assuming that you’re a Christmas voting turkey and not one of the 1%. As the 1% generally get mugs without a pot to piss in to do their fighting/arguing for them.

    mcboo
    Free Member

    Wrong again Ernie. I’d be a gay friendly, keep your religious beliefs out of my face, liberal Bloomberg-Republican. Or a budget balancing, welfare reforming Clinton-Democrat. I’d vote to re-elect Obama because I love and admire the President a great deal.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    You great big leftie mcboo.

    MSP
    Full Member

    Matthew Paris wrote an article a few years ago I will try and find, putting forward the position that it was his desire to see EVERYONE better off, and more free that drove him to become a Conservative.

    The same Matthew Paris that wrote of stringing piano wire across cycle paths? He may have fooled you with his inclusive propaganda but his hatred of everyone who wasn’t like him was never far from the surface.

    Maybe you should look at the pension thread, observe the actions of tesco’s one of the country’s most successful companies, and how it is currently gouging it’s employees pensions to feed the greed of the free market, how does that equate to the “desire to see EVERYONE better off”?

    mcboo
    Free Member

    Liberal Ernest, liberal.

    But I am part of the 1% so feel free to hate me.

    binners
    Full Member

    Quoting Matthew Parris to defend present Tory Policies? Genius! Did he once meet a poor person? Did they doff their cap and plead for the opportunity to buy their council house? 😆

    vinnyeh
    Full Member

    Matthew Paris wrote an article a few years ago I will try and find, putting forward the position that it was his desire to see EVERYONE better off, and more free that drove him to become a Conservative.

    I would like to see all animals better off, but some animals more better off than others.

    Apologies for the mangling. 🙂

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    I am part of the 1% so feel free to hate me.

    Thanks for giving me the thumbs up. You bighearted liberal.

    mcboo
    Free Member

    Matthew Parris as Glenn Beck. Do you guys have any other setting apart from the default Tory = Hate?

    binners
    Full Member

    Mcboo – As we approach the budget, shall we see how big-hearted, inclusive Matthew, Call-me-Dave, and George ‘we’re all in it together’ Osbourne are intending to address the countries problems? ….

    this is EXACTLY where our priorities lie.

    mcboo
    Free Member

    Its like the Jeremy Kyle show in here this morning.

    binners
    Full Member

    What would you prefer. Downton Abbey?

    *doffs cap*

    julianwilson
    Free Member

    mcboo – Member

    Its like the Jeremy Kyle show in here this morning.

    I didn’t think the 1%’s tellies could get channel 5. 😕

    If it is, McBoo is Jeremy. 😛 and indeed 😉

    MSP
    Full Member

    It is funny watching mcboo start the playground taunts when he is faced with coherent arguments that oppose his dogma.

    mcboo
    Free Member

    MSP wrote
    The same Matthew Paris that wrote of stringing piano wire across cycle paths? He may have fooled you with his inclusive propaganda but his hatred of everyone who wasn’t like him was never far from the surface

    Dont you think this is just a little bit mental? No? Really?

    julianwilson
    Free Member

    Dont you think this is just a little bit mental? No? Really?

    What, stringing piano wire across cycle paths? Yeah, that is a bit ‘mental’ really. I’d reccommend you choose someone less mental for your ‘palatable conservative posterboy’ next time. It must be like shooting fish in a barrel for the big lefties on here sometimes.

    MSP
    Full Member

    Dont you think this is just a little bit mental? No? Really?

    That Matthew Parris wants to see cyclists beheaded, yes that’s mental.

    That this is the man that you consider an all inclusive cuddly tory, yes that is certainly mental.

    mcboo
    Free Member

    MSP – dont take this the wrong way. But are you a student?

    MSP
    Full Member

    LOL, it’s so funny watching your dogma fail, and then you just retort with silly little taunts.

    julianwilson
    Free Member

    mcboo – Member

    MSP – dont take this the wrong way. But are you a student?

    What is the ‘wrong’ way and what is the ‘right’ one? 😆

    Don’t take this the wrong way McBoo, but were you either bullied or a bully at school? I don’t expect an answer of course. 😛

    mcboo
    Free Member

    Don’t take this the wrong way McBoo, but were you either bullied or a bully at school?

    You have outed me. I am Daniel LaRusso.

    julianwilson
    Free Member

    I had to google Daniel Larusso. 😳

    mcboo
    Free Member

    You guys and your skeleton suits dont scare me.

    julianwilson
    Free Member

    I am posting from home. If I do the praying mantis now, no one bar the cat will see me.

    Go on McBoo, I dares ya!

    Lifer
    Free Member

    hora – Member
    My view of Unison members is now coloured by these fine people.

    And the conversations you’ve had with them?

Viewing 39 posts - 41 through 79 (of 79 total)

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