Ideally wanted a Ti gravel bike to celebrate my 50th birthday next year, but such bikes tend to be quite pricey, even second hand (On One Pickenflick / Sonder Camino perhaps being the exceptions) …

Ti MTB bikes/frames seem to be a bit more plentiful and cheaper second hand, so got to wondering whether I could build up a gravel bike using an MTB as the starting point …

Want option to run 700×42 and 650bx2″ wheels/tyres …

Would it work? What do I need to think about in terms of geometry, frame size, fork options etc …

Anyone done this and got some tips?

Anyone not done this and want to point out the reasons why not?!

I still can’t be sure what a ‘gravel bike’ is, as it seems to cover everythig from a light-ish road/CX amalgam to an off-road touring bike

I plumped for the latter as was looking for more of a ‘do it all’ bike. For my 50th was looking at an all rounder to do distance on and chose a Genesis Vagabond simply because I had a chance to demo one and it fitted/worked like the proverbial glove, plus takes at least 2.35 tyres. Didn’t have the budget to buy 1. Dream rough tourer and 2. dream MTB. So I bought the Vagabond (they call it a ‘Monstercross’, basically what I call an “ATB’) and I must say it’s a great, multipurpose frame and build, and eminently upgradeable.

If didn’t want the wider tyres/ATB bias and was looking to do more literal ‘gravel’ and light bikepacking/touring I’d be tempted by a Spa Elan 105 (full build) as a base and upgrade kit as you wear it out? £1749 I’m thinking you’d be hard-pushed to build something like that even starting out with a cheaper (Ti) frame?*

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s21p3552/SPA-CYCLES-Elan-%28105-triple%29

*Not sure if it takes up to 42c without guards, worth asking them?

(Edited)

The mtb top tube will be quite long for a drop bar bike, you could compensate with a short stem, but that might make the handling a little too twitchy. If you go for a smaller frame, you might run into seaptube/post length issues

You’re only 50 once! I’d get saving for the bike you really really want. Sell the car, house, kids if needed. 😉
Isn’t an mtb frame with drops and bigger wheels what’s known as “Monstercross”?
I think top tube length and stem/bar height are the areas thst give mist issues, nothing thst can’t be sorted out with the right components though.
I still feel that a frame designed for the purpose would be the best option though.

Bikeradar’s Spa Ti Elan Ultegra review

I still feel that a frame designed for the purpose would be the best option though

Agree. MTBs with drops are a bit of a bodge. If you want drops then get a frame designed for them.

(Saying that I ride a track bike with risers so bit hypocritical!)

I use a 29er MTB frame with drops and 700c cross wheels. I can’t compare how it feels, to a road bike, as I’ve never owned one.

I can ride for longer distances and with more efficiency than the MTB tho’. It’s not very racy, but then I don’t ‘race’ so that’s fine.

A Short stem is the only real difference to a road bike, other than lots of frame clearance.

Andrew built this just to see what it would be like. Ti versions are available.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/WYnuMw]stooge dropbar[/url] by michaelandamanda, on Flickr

The ti Fargo is described as a mountain bike with drops but the price is outrageous for just a frame.
I was in Soanes in Colyton a few weeks ago and they had ti CdF reduced complete bike – hmmmmmmmmmm shiny object – dont know if just frames available.
https://devoncycles.co.uk/brand/genesis/
If you build one please post details.

I’ve done it with a large size Cube reaction, works a treat with 90 mm stem. I guess the current crop of longer reach bikes may not be suitable but there are still a lot of mtb frames out there that are.

You’re only 50 once! I’d get saving for the bike you really really want.

Agreed. But I’d spend all the energy determining which bike and geo you really, really want

Because buy the wrong one and no amount of money will make it really, really fit.

Be more or less sure about about what type of bike/where you wish to ride, what you wish to attach to it, how long the rides/in the saddle, what size/geo? Then demo, demo, demo.

I’ve got a Ti Fargo frame for sale in the classifieds. Frame is designed to be a drop bar mountain bike. I’ve got an identical steel one built up which I’m keeping (it’s my commuter) so you are welcome to try that out for geometry etc even if you don’t want the Ti one. The ride is completely different though …

You know what … Pickenflick Rival hydro just been reduced by £400 … I might as well just get that!

But, Rival 1 or 11 (11 or 22sp)?

I like 1x on my MTB, but is the range on a bike that needs to climb both steep off road hills, and tank down tarmac hills, too compromised on the 11sp Rival?

2×11 for hilly road riding, IMO, unless you are happy freewheeling down many hills.

You know what … Pickenflick Rival hydro just been reduced by £400 .

Ah, now if you’d said you were after a cyclocross racing bike.. . 😉

Damn you and your narrow niche definitions … 🙂

The Pickenflick does seem to tick a number of boxes for me … Seems a no-brainer!

The Pickenflick does seem to tick a number of boxes for me … Seems a no-brainer!

😀

1x or 2x, your bike, your choice
Each has their +/-.

hardtailonly – Member
…so got to wondering whether I could build up a gravel bike using an MTB as the starting point …

Want option to run 700×42 and 650bx2″ wheels/tyres …

Would it work? What do I need to think about in terms of geometry, frame size, fork options etc …

Anyone done this and got some tips?
Yes it works. All gravel bikes will have room for 2″ tyres in a few years time anyway – because it makes more sense for an all purpose bike to be able to have volume in its tyres if wanted. (You can always fit skinnier, but you can’t fit fatter into a skinny frame).

So any bike you buy now is going to be like owning a 2″ only 26″ wheel mtb when 2.35″ tyres became popular.

It’s best done with an older 29er because they have better geometry for the purpose (IMO).

First attempt, Kona scandium frame 6 years ago

Scandal. This is probably the best bike for the purpose – light and agile.

Avanti:

Ragley TD-1

I use Big Apples which are pretty well treadless, but find that with widish rims I can run low pressures, so get grip that way. Not as much grip as knobby tyres, but usually half the mileage is on the road getting to and from tracks, so I don’t have to listen to expensive tyres getting worn out uselessly. There’s plenty long loops up here with big chunks of road to connect them.

That is not a gravel bike. It is an MTB with funny bars. Of course it is can be ridden on gravel as can any bike (I ride a fixed track bike on gravel but that doesn’t make it a gravel bike)

Not saying there is anything wrong with it and it clearly suits your needs (as my track bike suits mine) but if you went into a shop looking for a gravel bike you would not be shown one a bike like the one you have pictured.

Damn you and your narrow niche definitions

As I say, I’ve no proper idea about what makes a ‘gravel bike’. I just read the description onthe Planet X page.

Although just googled ‘what is a gravel bike?’ and this seems to tell me that my ‘monster cross’ (what Genesis call it, yet what I call an ‘ATB’) is actually a ‘Gravel Bike/Adventure Tourer’. Clear as mud (clearance)!? I do know it isn’t a CX bike though, the industry and governing race body sets more narrow definitions for those and the geo, tyre-size, gearing etc are normally suitable for short races not do-it-all/all-day adventures.

http://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/205556-cyclocross-bikes-v-graveladventure-bikes-whats-difference

PlanetX do offer a Ti Gravel/Adventure bike called the Tempest

May want to compare features/geo?

kerley – Member
That is not a gravel bike…

The OP asked if a 29er would do the job, and I have shown several examples where I have done exactly that, and pictures of the practical use I have put them to.

A converted 29er works very well on gravel roads.

They work equally well on surfaced roads, eg I used the SCandal shown earlier for a 140 mile day ride around Wester Ross, almost all on road.

As I said earlier, I do not believe gravel bikes have fully evolved yet. We can expect change.

Form will eventually follow function unless the bike’s prime purpose is leaning outside a cafe.

Right now the commercial offerings are basically a slightly modified cx bike with slightly wider tyres and disk brakes.

Because the purpose of a gravel bike is to do distance work on poorly surfaced roads, my opinion is that they will eventually morph into the general shape of the sort of the bicycles used like that when all roads were gravel and big overland trips were being done. Thus tyres will get bigger.

A guide is the style of bikes used by the overlanders on transcontinental Australia pre WW1.

The shape of the bars is irrelevant. I have used conventional dropbars on my converted 29ers, but in my case I changed to bars that allow the use of mtb levers instead of road levers, which has practical benefits when you have the braking grip of a wider tyre.

BTW I have also ridden fixed bikes on gravel. In my youth that and ss was what all my mountainbiking was done on, and even now I occasionally venture out on one.

That is why I think very wide tyres are better for gravel. You can concentrate on enjoying the ride, not picking a line to protect your rims and tyres.

eg this was no fun at all.

Minor hijack, if someone was building a flat bar gravel/touring/xc bike off a 29er xc frame, would there be major downsides to using an ergo grip bar end as opposed to one of those fancy drop hybrid bars?

Or to pose the question another way, how often do you really use the drops on those bikes posted above?

If it’s comfortable, use it.

Comfort will get you more miles. Use whatever bars and bar position that feels right.

Great North Road style bars have the virtue that you can flip them in a few minutes and have an upright bar.

EG, Pompino set up for 90 mile ride (Bealach na Ba)

Same bars, same bike, set up for a day tour 10 years later.

Racers may disagree.

Bought a Lynskey single speed 26″ mtb frame on classifieds (now repaired with some agricultural welding!), now runs 700c wheels, drop bars, full carbon rigid fork and 1.9″ 29’r tyres. Its a hoot on nice undulating hills, but hard work on my old legs on anything steep.

But it wasn’t built for that, whether it’s a mtb with drop bars or monster cross, I still love it!

maxlite – Member
…But it wasn’t built for that, whether it’s a mtb with drop bars or monster cross, I still love it!

If we ignore the semantics, and just look at what is comfortable for covering distance on rough roads, then that’s what a gravel bike looks like. Sounds like you’ve nailed it. 🙂

I love threads with epicyclo’s bikes always something interesting 🙂

Anyway I ride a cx race bike with 40mm tyres crammed in because I just like the bike. One day I will sneak a drop bar 29er in to the shed to, maybe for my 50th (2 years away). Soma Wolverine is top of my want list.

I love threads with epicyclo’s bikes always something interesting

+1! My early forays faster and more comfortable MTB/rough-touring conversion was a CAAD3 with Big Apples and Mary bars. It fair flew across everything except mud. Same again with a Kinesis Maxlight rigid setup yet with low risers and massive bar-ends. Third attempt was a steel MTB with 1.75 Land Cruisers and comfort bars like those in epicyclo’s last pic. 2.35 Big Apples were a revelation for a ‘do. It all’ bike that could travel fast on roads.

tbh (@jimjam)I I mostly prefer the drop bars simply for the range of positions. Tend to stay on the hoods on roads and lanes and the drops when it gets rough/descents and sprints. Bimbling – the flat section. On longer rides I tend to rotate between these 3 to simply relieve boredom/pressure/cramps. If had to choose now between old wider bars
+ (big) bar-ends and these (wider, shallow) drops ? I’m not sure that I could. Need to get well and spend more time on the Vagabond to decide, but currently loving it. One other benefit of drops is the space for bar bag/tent/roll etc

Oh and… 😉

A converted 29er works very well on gravel roads.

Yep, no doubt it does. So would a non-converted 29er. Any mountain bike is fine to ride on gravel, more xc based the better.
Changing bars and stem does not turn a MTB into a gravel bike which is much closer to a road bike than an MTB. It is still and MTB just with different bars.

Again, that is great and I find my fixed track bike great as the gravel roads that surround me are hard packed so almost as fast as tarmac. We are riding bikes that we find are good to ride on gravel but we are not riding bikes which would be called gravel bikes.

Back to OP’s original query, a Ti MTB frame with drops being a possibility?

Best to read about someone who’s done it:

What the heck is a Monster Cross Bike?

Lynskey Monster Cross Bike – 3rd Time Lucky

As a monstercross owner I of course think that it’s superior to ‘gravel’ if it was down to just one bike to rule them all. Luckily we all have different criteria and styles. I’d be wary of converting to monstercross if really lusting for CX/gravel.

What about one of these?
Bit of an all rounder. Look good value for money.

https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/ribble-cgr/

Perhaps it’s just time for bar ends to make a return to fashion?

Malvern Rider – Member
…Oh and…

My version of that. 1935 Silver Sunbeam (incidentally usually ridden on gravel roads ):) )

kerley – Member
…Changing bars and stem does not turn a MTB into a gravel bike which is much closer to a road bike than an MTB. It is still and MTB just with different bars.

As I have said, the gravel bike is in an evolutionary process at the moment, and has yet to reach its final form, so arguing over semantics is pointless.

I think what we are looking for in a gravel bike is the important issue.

To me it’s the ability to carry bikepacking type gear, and have sufficient volume in its tyres for a comfortable ride offroad, ie a bike to do it all.

I remember not that long ago the derision applied to 29ers and especially monstercross “They’re just road bikes with wagon wheels etc etc”.

I have experimented a fair bit on getting to a bike which can be taken anywhere without having to worry about breaking it, and that lead me initially to monstercross which I regard as the proto-gravel bike, evolving towards smoother tyres and higher gearing, ie bigger chainrings.

I even tried taking monstercross to the extreme 6 years ago . 🙂

I’ve even experimented with small wheels offroad (Dahon on Great Glen Way)

The long and the short of it is a bike is a bike, but if you want a bike to use on proper gravel roads that isn’t going to be in a tyre size that no one wants in a few years, get a bike that will fit 2″+ tyres.

EDIT: I’ll rephrase that last sentence. If you want a bike for getting to difficult places, eg rough offroad gravel use, you’re more likely to want 2″+ tyres.

Off-the-peg adventure/gravel bikes are heading in the right direction, but I’m still waiting to see an affordable one (under £1k) with carbon forks, proper hydraulic brakes and clearance for 29×2.35″ G-One Speeds (or similar).

Given the post-Brexit vote weak pound, hell may freeze over first.

Epicyclo – some really interesting posts and pictures above. A question – at what point do you think tires get ‘wide enough’ for one to stop worrying so much about line choice off road?

I have been pondering building up a gravel type bike with drops, and as someone has already said there are a lot of bargains to be had on older ‘short’ reach 29er frames that I feel might be suitable.

EDIT – just saw your comment re. 2 inch tires! Noted.

yep, i have a beautiful old 26″ titanium mtb frame. it just about takes 700 x 40 wtb nano tyres. straightish bars and a carbon fibre lynskey fork. it has bike packed around wild atlantic way, slovenia, west of scotland and the mourne mountains. next month its for romania.

the 40mm nanos roll well on the road ( they have nearly a continuous strip up the centre, and they coped well with techie single track and rough bouldery gravel, tho obviously not as well as a mtb tyre.

i absolutely love it. i had drop bars on it for a while but enjoy the flats better for holidays where you are looking about at scenery! one problem is if its a 1 1/8 headset, you will have difficulty finding a carbon rigid fork.

my wife has a chinese 29er mtb with a rigid fork and 40mm nanos and she loves it, v light, well balanced and flies along. it has the advantage of taking broader mtb tyres
OP if you want a few photos, i can pm them

This will be the ugly bike thread then, just not meant to be done! 😆

seosamh77

This will be the ugly bike thread then, just not meant to be done!

The ugliness of a bike should be judged from the saddle – except for fixed wheels, they’re all just beautiful. 🙂

As someone already said, you’re only 50 once!! Don’t cheap out on your 50th prezzie, sell another bike, anything…

So 1 year on, what did the op buy? The planet x titanium compromise or a ti mtb and converted?

#Epicylo 👍

I have a road bike, I rarely use the drops unless its really windy or need to change hand position.

I have a cube mtb frame, carbon fork, flat bars and bar ends. It can do anything and go anywhere and it’s really nice to ride and cost around £400. Takes 2.35 tyres, mudguards, panniers. What more do you want from a bike?

My original build was with some salsa woodchipper bars but I wanted hydraulic brakes and didn’t have the budget for brifters and had some mtb brakes kicking about in the spares box.

It’s also a 1 1/8 steerer but I used a hope bottom cup to make it tapered.

My full suss hasn’t been used since I built it as a winter bike. It’s such a nice ride that it will probably get ridden in the summer too on multi road surfaces. 🤔

So 1 year on, what did the op buy? The planet x titanium compromise or a ti mtb and converted?

Bought the On One Pickenflick – discounted to £1300 in the end I think (SRAM Rival 2×11 HRD).

Upgraded the stock wheels with some Hunt 4 Seasons Disc wheels and 700×42 WTB Resolute tubeless tyres for my 51st birthday.

It’s an absolute belter of a bike, I’ve covered nearly 6000km on it in just over a year.

So from the wisdom shared above my Longshot Solaris Max would make a totally unsuitable frame for this exercise?