• This topic has 25 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 8 years ago by jonba.
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  • Gluing tubulars – Belgian style
  • Garry_Lager
    Full Member

    So I have my first tubular tyres to glue and need some pointers. See this guy below, he’s using glue and tape and whilst he explains things well, might it be a bit OTT for the weekend CXer? I’m thinking in terms of getting the tyres off in the future, is this going to make things unnecessarily difficult?

    [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okqs-3HgU4U[/video]

    He is also clear on the fact that no curing time is needed for the glue, which seems counter to other things I’ve read.
    Finally – is there anything special about his ‘Belgian tape’, or is a roll of jantex going to work just as well?

    Thanks for any advice – like a cycling bar mitzvah, this.

    bigbeard
    Free Member

    Everyone seems to have there own way of doing things, but I’ve always followed this guide:

    http://belgianwerkx.com/2013/08/gluing-cyclocross-tubular-tires-the-belgian-way/

    I use Jantex Velox tape and Vittoria Mastic One glue. I use them on carbon wheels (even though the tape says its for alloy only)

    I use 3-4 tubes of glue to do two wheels.

    Touch wood, but I haven’t had a tub come off yet!

    bigbeard
    Free Member

    To summarise the above method, it is basically:

    1. Stretch tubs on rims overnight.
    2. Put layer of glue on rims and tyres.
    3. Leave 2 hours then put another layer of glue on rims and tyres.
    4. Leave overnight.
    5. Put layer of glue on rims.
    6. Put tape on rims.
    7. Put layer of glue on tape.
    8. Put tyre on.
    9. Leave for 24 hours

    RoterStern
    Free Member

    Why use glue when you can just use tape. Much quicker and so far my tyres haven’t budged in four races so far.

    bikebouy
    Free Member

    bigbeard – Member
    To summarise the above method, it is basically:

    1. Stretch tubs on rims overnight – I do mine for a couple of weeks, put 35psi in them whilst on the rim – this also allows the “damp” and “rubber” to dry off completely in air temperature
    2. Put layer of glue on rims and tyres – Jantex for me too, thin layer only though about the thickness of a smear
    3. Leave 2 hours then put another layer of glue on rims and tyres – yup me too
    4. Leave overnight – I leave mine for about 6-8hrs no more but thats room temp dependent
    5. Put layer of glue on rims – yup a smear.
    6. Put tape on rims – yup but I too leave that for about 2-3hrs
    7. Put layer of glue on tape – leave for about 2hrs
    8. Put tyre on and pump to about 45psi to seat it properly. I pump to about 20psi first and spin the wheels in the frame and correct any imbalance in the tyre/rim interface, once done pump to 45psi and spin again correcting if needed
    9. Leave for 24 hours – I leave mine for a week
    10. Deflate tyre to about 35psi for a spin around the block, stabbing the brakes and sharp steering the bars side to side just to make sure it’s all seated and sealed

    FIFM

    Garry_Lager
    Full Member

    Thks – seems like a similar method to the guy in the vid, but letting the glue dry for longer. I’ll get her done.

    What is the activation energy like for changing tyres? Like if things are getting muddy it’s no bother to stick a limus on, or is it more like you stick an all-rounder on at the start of the season and just leave it be?

    Not sure I see the point of glue AND tape. If the glue is strong enough to hold the rim to the tape, and the tape to the tub then it’ll be stong enpugh to hold the rim to the tub.

    (I always used just glue)

    The-Swedish-Chef
    Free Member

    I’ve also only ever used glue, been fine for a number of seasons.

    LS
    Free Member

    Only ever used glue, never rolled a tub that I’ve put on. Tape has always seemed superfluous to me (and a royal pain when it leaves a residue behind on a rim).

    What is the activation energy like for changing tyres? Like if things are getting muddy it’s no bother to stick a limus on, or is it more like you stick an all-rounder on at the start of the season and just leave it be?

    There’s a reason why we all have lots of wheels 😀 changing tubs mid-season is not a job I’d fancy tbh.

    benji
    Free Member

    Why bother with tubs, it’s all going tubeless hopefully, Nick Craig got a 3rd at the three peaks using tubeless and at reasonably low pressures. I’m already planning on using Stans Grail rims with Schwalbe X-One’s run tubeless for next season.

    LS
    Free Member

    Tubeless is no match for tubulars in proper cyclocross conditions (yesterday’s National Trophy for example) as you can’t run the pressures low enough, nor do the sidewalls have the same flexibility, which all adds to the grip level.
    3Peaks or dry rocky stuff maybe, and perhaps in the future if the tyres improve, but at the moment tubs rule.

    dovebiker
    Full Member

    3 Peaks is hardly typical CX conditions….
    My own experience is that tape simply doesn’t hold a tub securely to cope with the fatter tyre carcass and far greater side-load that an off-camber traverse puts on a CX tyre – and you can’t run tubeless safely at lower pressures either.

    bikebouy
    Free Member

    I use both because I’ve always done that. In my early attempts at gluing tubs I had some right old comedy moments when the tubs would peal and roll off 🙄
    Since then I’ve kinda stuck to my own method and TBH scared shitless to change 😆
    Also, default Grifos, spare wheels with Limis on… Same ratios/wheel set just different tyres on each for different occasions.
    I too also have some carbon clinchers which I use when not racing CX, these are my most used wheels and the most expensive set. I’ve got Grifos and Limis and Almanzos that get swapped out on these.

    MikeWW
    Free Member

    I just use glue. Used to put 3 layers on the tub and 4 on the rim but it stuck them on so well it was just about impossible to get off and when you did you destroyed the tub. Just use 2 and 3 now(last layer on the rim immediately before seating the tub) and it seems about right

    barrykellett
    Free Member

    I’ve always thought that the Glue and Tape method originated from back when racers used narrow unsuitable road rims that have a deep concave rim bed, which doesn’t get enough purchase on a wide CX tyre… it fills the void up and contacts more of the tyre with greater consistency.

    Not an issue with more modern wider shallow bed rims, specific to a wider tyre.

    I was duped into Glue and tape on my first set up, but have since just used glue and been fine. I dread the thought of removing those glue/taped tyres. I actually would remove them today and sell the tyres on if I though I wouldnt tear them to pieces in the process.

    mafiafish
    Free Member

    3-4 tubes of glue to do two wheels.

    😯
    I only used 1/2 a tube for two. Do they come in different sizes?

    Overall, much less faff than I anticipated.

    bikebouy
    Free Member

    barrykellett – Member
    I’ve always thought that the Glue and Tape method originated from back when racers used narrow unsuitable road rims that have a deep concave rim bed, which doesn’t get enough purchase on a wide CX tyre… it fills the void up and contacts more of the tyre with greater consistency.

    Not an issue with more modern wider shallow bed rims, specific to a wider tyre.

    You are most probably right, but then I’ve erm “perfected” my technique.. Don’t go trying to fill my head with yer new fangled-wangled-funky modern ways y’hear.

    traildog
    Free Member

    Why bother with tubs, it’s all going tubeless hopefully, Nick Craig got a 3rd at the three peaks using tubeless and at reasonably low pressures. I’m already planning on using Stans Grail rims with Schwalbe X-One’s run tubeless for next season.

    As others have said, the 3 peaks is not really a cyclocross race. More a race using cyclocross bikes. People run their tyres at high pressure and this would be the ideal situation where tubeless would work.

    Pproper cyclocross event requires tyres to be run at very low pressures and this is why tubular is still king. I’ve seen so many failed tubeless setups at races that I’ve decided it’s not worth trying and I’m a huge tubeless fan which includes using it on my road bike.

    For cyclocross I’ve resorted to latex tubes in clinchers as an easier and cheaper alternative (although the tubes are expensive). I find this a reasonable setup and more supple than standard inner tubes.

    More training will benefit me more than worrying about tubulars at the moment, but no doubt if I get fit then I will start the glue addiction most racers have.

    TiRed
    Full Member

    I ran my non-tubeless Conti CX Pros# tubeless at 18 PSI in some truly dreadful conditions – inches of slop. Didn’t have any issues at all. It took an age to seal the sidewalls initially, but they have been great.

    Guy in front of me rolled his “professionally glued and fresh out of the shop” tub in a road race and took me down. There was more glue under my nails than on the tyre.

    .
    .
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    #Note it’s the only tyre available for my wheels. Other wheel sizes are available

    eddie11
    Free Member

    i can assure you nick craig rode last weekends very muddy trophy at durham like a boss and did not use tubeless.

    benji
    Free Member

    Guess I got that very wrong with my thoughts on tubeless. Having talked to loads of people about tubulars and tubeless, I’m now the owner of two pairs of tubular wheels, and ordered two pairs of clement tubs as well this morning. I was dithering about what to chose, this is going to sound crazy, but I work as a vehicle tech, and this morning two cars on my job list one with the registration ending in mxp and the next one pdx, so that was it job done, ordered. Next stage get sticky, hopefully get a few of the last cyclocross rounds ridden on them.

    Garry_Lager
    Full Member

    Nice one benji. I ended up just gluing in the end, no tape, based on the above comments. Raced them the other week and they were boss! Ran them a bit soft if anything, but obv will take a few races / courses to find out best pressures.

    The only hard part of the gluing was getting the tyre on straight – I used challenge tyres and they weren’t that ‘true’ to begin with, so needed a bit of shaping on the rim that I found quite difficult to get absolutely bob on. Settled for close enough, and after a race run they’re fine.

    LS
    Free Member

    Just get the base tape straight and don’t worry so much about the tread, they’re very rarely true. When you’ve got 1bar in it the tread flexes a fair bit out of line anyway 😆

    trickydisco
    Free Member

    Have always followed crossjunkies method

    [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvuksZa5GyI[/video]

    and has worked very well for me. Never rolled a tub

    bluebird
    Free Member

    proper cyclocross event requires tyres to be run at very low pressure … I’ve seen so many failed tubeless setups at races

    Interesting, why are they more prone to coming of their bead than a mountain bike tyre at low pressures?

    jonba
    Free Member

    I’ve seen this too. My guess would be narrower rims and less secure tyres (lighter). Cross pressures are lower than low mtb pressures. People run tubs virtually flat in really bad races.

    I was thinking tubs at the start of the season but realistically in the last few races I’ve done the grip would have been a help but to be competitive I needed a second bike. Most people with this option were switching every lap.

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