News headline “fears over Global economy”

I don’t get it. They say the WHOLE global economy is going down the pan but, now maybe this is the engineer in me looking for a boundary condition, where is it all going? And surely we need an external reference for it to be going down the pan against not an internal one or it’s meaningless? Without such reference it is all just seems to be fiction/scaremongering.

So are we trading with aliens who are making a huge profit?

Or do they really mean that Europe and America etc are losing money to other parts of the world?

And/Or is it all just a load of b*ll*cks with virtual money in a system that has lost all sense of reality and we should sort out all these bankers and traders once and for all as paying them stupid amounts of money to work this system that has finally, and obviously inevitably, imploded on itself does not really seem to be money well spent any more?

Or something else?

❓ 😕 ❓ 😕 ❓

I don’t think I should pursue a career in banking/trading! 😆

So are we trading with aliens who are making a huge profit?

I think the problem is that nobody is trading. People are scared and aren’t buying stuff so businesses aren’t performing so people are losing jobs so shares are sliding so people are scared and aren’t buying stuff so…

…the money is just sitting there not moving around? That was the other “or” that I was going to put down.

Basically there is no cashflow around the world?

Whats staggering is the terminal lack of ideas or leadership. Chicago School Free-market capitalism has delivered us to this catastrophe! SO what is the solution? The alternative?

Erm… MORE Chicago School Free-market capitalism! Only lets ****ing turbo charge it this time!!

We’ve got a pair of muppets in number 10 & 11 who thinks the regulation of the banking sector will wait until 2019. And he seriously thinks that these idiots, left to their own devices yet again, won’t have bankrupted the country by then? Incredible!

Can’t we just now agree that we don’t owe each other anything?
sort of cancel each other out and start again

😀

Can’t we just now agree that we don’t owe each other anything?
sort of cancel each other out and start again

I have got to wondering at what point would a catastrophic financial implosion mean so many people would lose their jobs and get behind on their mortgage payments that the financial institutions simply couldn’t just kick them all out of their homes and would just have to accept they aren’t going to get their loans repaid?

uplink – you mean…..

Not a movie I’ve seen Binners but I’ll take your word for it

I said at the start of this recession the country should use it as an opportunity to invest in making ourselves less reliant on imports and the financial markets and create lots of jobs and invest in lots of research in renewables and alternative transport etc etc. We could have got away from all the stock exchange problems, fossil fuels, pollution, congestion etc etc that cost our country so much. Yes it would be a hard 10 years or so but we would be so much better off at the end of it.

Most of the developed economies in the world rely on debt to make things go and people are waking up to the fact that the debt is not going to be paid back.

“fears over Global economy”

I’m amazed that the ‘economy’ and the various share indices/gilt/bond markets have got this far. Since after the initial crash in what, 2008? It was fairly obvious, even to a layman like me, that the whole lot was built on ‘confidence’ rather than anything actually tangible.

And what Ho-Hum said, again it was pretty obvious from the numbers that there was no way the debts were going to get paid, other than by Weimaresque inflation…

It seems like the smart people in the city have finally cottoned on.

people are waking up to the fact that the debt is not going to be paid back

did they ever expect it to be paid back rather than just serviced?

YOU’VE NEVER SEEN FIGHT CLUB?!!!! 😯

did they ever expect it to be paid back rather than just serviced?

Snigger. Well it *is* Friday afternoon and the sun is shining. Time for a bike ride! 😀

YOU’VE NEVER SEEN FIGHT CLUB?!!!!

nope

Well you should definitely watch it… you’ll either think its the work of genius (it is!) or you can add it to the ‘over-rated films’ thread with a tirade about me being an idiot with no taste.

You can’t lose really

uplink – Member
people are waking up to the fact that the debt is not going to be paid back
did they ever expect it to be paid back rather than just serviced?

Sorry, meant to say the extra chunk over and above “normal” borrowing levels is not going to be paid back.

Even servicing normal debt levels when economic growth is faltering is potentially difficult if the cost of borrowing slowly creeps up.

Well you should definitely watch it… you’ll either think its the work of genius (it is!) or you can add it to the ‘over-rated films’ thread with a tirade about me being an idiot with no taste.

You can’t lose really

On the basis of your ‘no win, no fee’ offer, I’ve just finished ……… er…. buying it 😉
I’ll let you know Monday

If bankers haven’t the confidence or a clue how to sort out their mess why are their executives still paid so much?

If out governments took one weeks earnings off everyone in the financial sector I wonder how much they’d get. Just keep doing that every month until their effing confidence returns and/or all the bank’s debts are sorted.

It would also be nice if they introduced a 100% Gross Incompetence Tax on golden handshakes, pensions and parachutes – just to cheer the rest of us up in the mean time.

it is because the ‘west’ can not fully get its head round the change in power of the emerging economies – sooner that realise that the better..

i feel empowered to comment based on little knowledge, but the ‘pros’ are funking it all up so….

It would also be nice if they introduced a 100% Gross Incompetence Tax on golden handshakes, pensions and parachutes – just to cheer the rest of us up in the mean time.

Good move…

companies should not employ people who feel the need to have ‘in all cases’ golden handshakes etc – do a good job get a bonus, screwup and get sod all…

binners – Member
Whats staggering is the terminal lack of ideas or leadership. Chicago School Free-market capitalism has delivered us to this catastrophe! SO what is the solution? The alternative?

Spot on re. leadership. No matter what one’s view of Gordon Brown is, at least he had the gumption to get world leaders to act as one last time around. Where is the uniting force now?

Crisis 2.0 certainly does seem to be here and what was an economic crisis has escalated into a political crisis. There are some solutions that could solve the sovereign debt problem.

However, it would be political suicide for the politicians if they took the actions required.

CaptJon – you ask where is the uniting force now? Well the problem is now that nationalism is taking hold within countries and people will only look after their own countries now.

We’ve got a pair of muppets in number 10 & 11 who thinks the regulation of the banking sector will wait until 2019.

trouble is that regulation involves costs to the banks, and they will go where their costs are least. Several cities would likes Londons position in the worlds financial markets and it wouldn’t take a lot of persuading for the banks to centralise there.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=HX3Va521UGQC&pg=RA1-PA15&lpg=RA1-PA15&dq=Hamburg+london+financial+centre&source=bl&ots=TGs4aVhBNs&sig=EsLu_h7WayGD8-AKF5FR16x2HfI&hl=en&ei=IJJ8Tp-wJYSp0AWRypzcDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Hamburg%20london%20financial%20centre&f=false

As we don’t have much of a manufacturing base the loss of our financial side would be a real problem.

As we don’t have much of a manufacturing base the loss of our financial side would be a real problem.

And again we come back to the same problem. The muppets in power. Rather than address the initial problem and re-balance our economy, they’ve let it known that they’ll bend over backwards to keep the bankers sweet. Thus ensuring that we really are ****ed! As far as they’re now concerned they’ve been handed a blank cheque

I think its about time someone called their bluff. Hold the door open for them and tell them to **** off!!!

they’ll bend over backwards to keep the bankers sweet

not mention shafting what manufacturing we have left – Bombardier, Derby etc.

I’m more concerned that someone hasn’t seen Fight Club

Bombardier, Derby etc.

Is Bombardier in derby a UK company? I thought it was a canadian company and derby was a Uk satellite/subsidiary?

funny really as bombardier make world beating bogies and their customers include Siemens.. who beat them to the thameslink contract..

just goes to show how global stuff is… not great for Derby though

<<As we don’t have much of a manufacturing base the loss of our financial side would be a real problem.>>

Government figures shows manufacturing still contributes more to our GDP than F services…

I thought it was a canadian company and derby was a Uk satellite/subsidiary?

it is but a lot of jobs in Derby

To get some perspective, the drop in yesterdays **** septic parasitic markets was the biggest since when? 1876? 1935? No, 2008. The world is not dissolving up it’s own arse. People will still produce goods and services, people will still buy them but the opportunities and costs will change. With perhaps some uprisings and revolutions along the way. Your opinion of a situation is what makes it bad or not.

The whole global economy is not going down the pan but certain sections of it are making a good effort to do so. Most of the developed world has been living in fantasy land for many years built on saving very little at first to saving nothing at all now. We are now faced with a gloomy outlook on debt (personal and sovereign), demographics and a lack of policy options. It is actually a fallacy to argue that this is purely a capitalist/free-market issue though as some/many of the problems came from incorrect policy choices that distorted free markets – eg, keeping interest rates artificially low to appease financial markets, creating the mirage of public sector employment as a solution etc.

But the baton is now being handed to the emerging world. And guess what these guys have been saving as we borrowed and mortgaged our future generations. So the world is not all bu&&ered BUT the problem is that the emerging world is not going to bail us out. These savings are now being used to stimulate domestic demand in these economies rather than exporting to us.

Cheery thought!

TurnerGuy – a serious question. At the moment the economy is starved of any kind of stimulus. A healthy banking system is vital for supplying money to the economy but we do not have a healthy banking industry. So seriously what do you want the gov to do? Come down even harder and guarantee that no credit will be supplied (just think what happened in Japan) or cut them at least some temporary slack so that companies can get access to credit? You don’t have to be an apologist for banks to realise that overt hostility now is not going to solve the problem of companies accessing funds.

How are China and India coping with the “global” economic downturn?

You don’t have to be an apologist for banks to realise that overt hostility now is not going to solve the problem of companies accessing funds

I am not the one being hostile to the banks – I am warning against too much regulation.

The biggest problem is that the banks, whose job it is to analyse risk and then make money from it, completely ignored the risk involved in the debt, and derivatives of, they took on before the crash and then got stung.

Even when their own risk analysts were pointing it out – they had to follow the crowd to be competitive, or just be sheep and follow everyone else.

And now they won’t lend money.

Maybe the government could come up with an underwriting scheme to encourage them to take on the debt the UK companies need it to take on.

Surrounded By Zulus – Member
How are China and India coping with the “global” economic downturn?

Does this answer your question?

There was a very funny story on the news the other night where they had the gold and jewel encrusted Nano appearing in loads of pictures and graphics.

Surrounded By Zulus – Member
How are China and India coping with the “global” economic downturn?

Both have inflationary problems which their central governments need to get under control.

It’s hard to know exactly what is going on in China, but they have massive asset bubbles brewing, particularly property, which if they went pop could cause problems.

It is true that China kept growing when its main export markets went into recession, but they mainly did this by flooding the economy with credit and the Chinese aren’t the best consumers in the world so they did one thing they knew to do and that was invest it in capital projects.

However, with their export markets looking like they will go into recession again how are they going to afford to repay the loans they received? It could end up with a large number of defaults and subdued growth.

Sorry TurnerGuy, I missed the quote!!

India and China are being driven by domestic demand so despite inflation they are doing fine. But watch for the future NPL problem with China’s banks

Waiting for the military coup in Greece…

Government imposes more austerity in order to secure another bail-out
Social unrest/rioting becomes more violent
Government instructs army to put down unrest using ‘force’
Army refuses [to open fire on it’s citizens]
Result: Coup

enveetee – Member
Waiting for the military coup in Greece…

Government imposes more austerity in order to secure another bail-out
Social unrest/rioting becomes more violent
Government instructs army to put down unrest using ‘force’
Army refuses [to open fire on it’s citizens]
Result: Coup

The CIA have Greece on coup alert!

I read an article about it earlier in the week. I will see if I can find the link.

Edit – here is the link Greek coup