I suspected the FOI claim was an stw “fact” aka myth.

Standard poorly informed opinions passed of by whiney middle aged cockbags as fact strikes again.

😆 these threads really bring them out. Though I will happily whine about the layout of the Peel development. I do think we are lucky to have any of this at all though.

True, but I think FC managers ask them for these big flagship projects. I wonder how much of it is down to not enough women in top jobs at FC? (i.e. There’s a lot of willy waving going on)

I wonder if it’s a case of the system being loaded in a way that the only way to get funding for things is to make it part of one of these grand designs? Apply for £50k of funding for a trail project, and you’ll get f’d off at the high port – tag it onto a £5m Eco visitor centre and it’s high fives all round.

If there was no penalty or threat of penalty how many people would pay to use the carpark?

The FOI- I’d love to see facts and a FC link.

On the TripAdvisor review(s) about filth and mud. I wholeheratdly agree. Would you go and see in a pub post ride with filthy boots and arses? So why should any outdoors cafe be different? Often than not these riders have just finished smashing out a bit lap and their car is within reach. Why can’t they get changed then go into the cafe? I’ve seen the muddy seats myself. It’s grim. A nice building with people not giving a hoot for others.

As I say I’m out. Mtb’ers really don’t help themselves.

Though I will happily whine about the layout of the Peel development.

Go for it. Just remember that the local guys get the short end of the stick just like the private businesses on site and have to make the most of it with limited resources.

I tend to use the cafe between laps and that seems to be fairly common. I’ve never been made to feel unwelcome regardless of how minging I am, and the finish and furnishings reflect the main customer Base. Anyway, exactly how many TripAdvisor reviews mentioned this as an issue?

They used to have a sign at the door saying basically “muddy arses welcome”. Maybe they still do? You stop seeing things so I don’t know.

The Hub had character. And the food was better that the current place. But what the new place does well, is it gives non bikers a place to chill and have a coffee, read a book, use the wifi while their husband/son/wife/daughter/parent goes for a spin round the red loop. I met my parents there last week. They are not bikers in anyway shape or form. The building is light and fairly clean and comfortable for non bikers to use. The Hub wasn’t.

The food could be improved, but the idea is there.

Car Parking, I would happily pay £80 a year for a car pass that could be used at all FC sites in the UK. This would mean 16 visits a year to brake even, based on the £5 a day charge. However each FC site is run as a different cost centre apparently, so this won’t work, according to the FC!! Not on,y would they have the cash up front, it would save bikers and visitors the hassle of finding change etc ( that the cafe at GT won’t even give )) and may give them more business than they would otherwise have had, as people want to get value out of the pass, which may in turn lead to more cafe trips etc.

Could we not bring back the staff from the Hub and put them into the new fancy building? Wouldnt that keep most people happy?

So which trails are fully open then? there seems to be permanent diversions in place, this seems short sighted to me, surely encouraging more use of an extensive trail network is the way forward, rather than logging for little return, does this not have a knock on effect ie numbers and revenue for the greasy spoon!.

Logging has to be done when the trees are ready. It’s just a reality of forest trail centres.

You have to actively manage the forests for various reasons, you cant just put bike trails in and totally ignore it. If they did this you wouldn’t be able to ride anything eventually. I’m not typing an essay about it on my phone but it does need to be done. Should be information on various FC sites as to why if you really want to know.

And you can’t work around people on a harvesting site as people tend to be dumb, hence the closures.

I dimly recall many years ago Pete Laing telling me that the original bits of the Glentress red cost about £5 per metre, but newer trails such as Kirroughtree (which was brand new at the time) were costing maybe £15-20 per metre

A more realistic and genuine figure for Kirroughtree would be doubling (and then add some more) of your initial estimate, it took a lot more work and expense than initially thought to build the Kirroughtree trails due to the terrain and underlying subsoil but they did a bloody good job as they still ride and hold up very well to the abuse and weather all these years later

Yeah but no but, riding through clear fell doesn’t have the same charm,riding through a mature forest is nice, so thinning is a good thing, i think the FC should really look at the bigger picture, there is a lot of industrial scale planted forest, writing off a relative small area for recreation would not be a bad thing, it is publicly owned afterall.

I’d be interested to know if anyone actually knows the rough cost of a mtb trail per metre and what you generally have to put aside each year to maintain it as is?

Tilhill costed it at £26 per metre not including ‘features’ which were additional.Trying to get funds allocated to maintenance is next to impossible.The rationale being ‘if you design/build them properly they should’nt need maintenance’ and no contractor is going to say they can’t build them properly.
Penmachno spent £50k on approx 1.5k of trail and a 5k ‘rad’ edit 😐

Thanks scotroutes, that’s cleared the FOI memory up.

Build cost wise £25-35 per metre is pretty standard depending on grade and quality of finish.

A maintenance free MTB trail is the stuff of myth. They always need maintaining – act off god instances like windblown roots plates, standard maintenance like deberming, resurfacing eventually if only due to 30000 sets of tyres going over it a year, springs that appear after heavy rain etc. 10% of build cost per year is the standard figure that we worked to and gets banded around.

So a 20km red trail at £25 per metre is 500k to build and over its initial life of 10 years will cost about £1 million. Hopefully that gives people a bit of an idea as to the costs involved and why you don’t get new trails every year.

These are baseline figures, building big rock features, tabletops etc prepare for the price to double and more.

riding through clear fell doesn’t have the same charm,riding through a mature forest is nice, so thinning is a good thing, i think the FC should really look at the bigger picture, there is a lot of industrial scale planted forest, writing off a relative small area for recreation would not be a bad thing, it is publicly owned afterall.

Riding through clearfell isn’t great but the reality is there are many reasons why things happen like they do. A lot of thinning does take place, but you probably don’t even notice. Some crops are still clearfelled, these are probably more densely planted crops. Thinning opens up lots of problems like windblow as the remaining trees have grown in a sheltered environment and suddenly have a load of wind blowing them over or snapping them. You’ll also notice in some areas that have been clearfelled of aesthetically unpleasing timber crops there has been more sympathetic replanting.

The reality is you are riding through a commercial crop, which was planted to be a crop and not designed to be nice to hang around in. Luckily given the history of Glentress there are a lot of much nicer areas of woodland than just super dense sitka, if you look up as you go up the climb past go ape there are some impressive trees, it’s just like being on a speeder bike on Endor 😉

Glentress hasn’t been built on a sustainable model for any of it though…targeting a very finite number of visitors – tourists – the funding has been granted around all of that which although gives access to potentially huge pots, it does limit what you can do with it.
Rather than admit mistakes, they do what every public-body does and that is power-packed for more control and sell a ‘new’ idea to everyone so they think it is progress.
Rather than fixing what they have they prefer to keep going making the same mistakes just on a grander scale…
Good luck to anyone and everyone who wants to get in bed with the FC – whatever it is will fail (which is unfortunate) due to power and control hunger from FC.
I saw this way back at the start of the century when I was volunteering at GT, even then the signs were obvious it was going to fail to deliver the promises. However back then it was smaller and larger gaps between the fails.
Yes, I’m jaded but after so many years of watching the FC ruin so many good things (across all of Scotland and a few times at various sites), it is impossible to see any good on what they do.

whiney middle aged cockbags

that’s Mr. whiney middle aged cockbag to you. 😉

If the cafe was decent people wouldnt begrudge the parking fee

People begrudge paying parking everywhere. Nonpayment at Glentress was higher back when the Hub was there, so maybe that proves the new place is better? Or, not. People begrudge paying at Drumlanrig and it has 2 cafes and a blimmin castle.

A survey done pointed to non cyclists being bigger non payers than us @ Mabie! The attitude being that it’s only cyclists that need to pay. Those who use the kids play area being the biggest culprits.
I’ve been reliably informed that the contract awarded the contractor to maintain Ae/Mabie/Dalbeattie is so poorly funded that we should expect to see very little maintenance being done 🙄
The rumours of FC job losses are also still in the air
Only been to GT once since the Peel opened but as a regular visito to the Lakes paying for parking isn’t really a consideration. Used to ride there lots, especially when MrsT worked in Edin and B.S. (Before Stanes)

Del – Member
whiney middle aged cockbags

that’s Mr. whiney middle aged cockbag to you.

As I am fast approaching pensionable age what does that make me ❓ 😉 😆

I was on a course recently that met in “what should have been the cafe” at the top of the hill. As a building it was no better than the cafe,actually a lot worse . Really just a standard box inside and surprisingly small, so that appeared to be a design fail too.

trail_rat – Member

“Whenever I’ve used a trail centre I’ve paid parking and used the centre cafe. It helps everyone.”

Thats my point. FC charge to ride the trails that the locals built around here…. its no trail centre not even close.

If FC continue to take the piss – then ill take the piss…. FWIW i always prefered to go down , stay for the weekend at Kalzie bunkhouse. Leave the car and ride out onto the SUW @ innerleithen and ride over to selkirk for coffee and cake for then back up and over in a figure of 8 loop for the decent back to inners for cake and coffee…. more of my money into the local economy than into the FC coffers to piss up the wall on grand un needed gestures.

Spot on.

And 8.5 million to build a glass box and a few toilets, someone is massively taking the ****

Get the locals in, let them build and do the food. Job done. They make more from parking as people wont mind parking for something decent and knowing it’s run by locals who give great service and food.

That previous post about food at Llandegla. Now that’s what a proper chef should look like 🙂

It’s locals doing the food at Glentress at the moment so I’m not sure what point you are trying to make.

Most folk avoided the parking charge when it was still the Hub too.

what I meant was allow a local independent run place to run the site, make decent home made food, nothing special just good quality fresh food, decent coffee and good service. It’s really not difficult to do. Maybe add a bit of personality and job’s a good un.

How hard can that be? Whoever is running the place FC or whoever need a bit of a slap. 8.5 million what’s all that about!

Given they have a restaurant just round the corner they couldn’t be much more local.

The big issue with the current café operators, is the place is poorly run. Arguments about what the FCS did or didn’t promise are irrelevant, because with the current organisation, the café would never cope with even more customers. There is a lot of potential there, you just need to treat the kitchen as a café and not some scaled down restaurant kitchen.

As much as I hate to mention the hub, it ran like clockwork. The peel in comparison is like watching a bunch of headless chickens running around behind a counter, with even more flapping in the kitchen.
For those who remember the hub, how often did you see somebody stood behind the counter like a spare prick at a wedding, when there was a queue?

As for the buildings. I can understand FCS wanted a flagship building using the latest green/eco-friendly building technology, which costs money. But to build the café in a hole looking at either a weedy natural flora fauna covered hillside or some wigwams just lacks total vision.

stevenmenmuir – Member

Given they have a restaurant just round the corner they couldn’t be much more local.

Well if they cant make a toastie I don’t hold out much hope for the restaurant then 🙂

Sorry I thought the FC was running the café.

Need to get back to basic’s by the sounds of it. I’ve been a few times and a few times to the Hub and that was A LOT better from what I remember.

But then I’m a simple person who wants simple things. It amazes me how these things are hard to achieve.

*bump*

Anyone been in since the hydro took over the cafe?

I was in last weekend. Interested to hear some opinions…

We went in the weekend of the Tweedlove International for coffees, had to take it back as the milk had gone off. The staff were very friendly, apologetic and replaced them.

I was in a couple of times when they’d literally just opened, they seem to be going for a homelier feel (artfully mismatched furniture and that), and it did already have a bit of a different atmopshere, disorganised but effective and friendly… but they were obviously still finding their feet so I’m not making any judgement… TBH I was pretty happy with the last guys, and no great fan of the Hub, so I’ll probably not be typical anyway 😆

They seem to have done away with 95% of the menu. Hardly anything on offer. Very strange. Also a very strange atmosphere. Bizarre silence. Was also sad to see all the staff gone but I’ve found out they’ve gone to the new cafe at Bonys..

So that’s why the furniture had changed. Just as disorganised as previously, hope you don’t what any ice cream!

I’d say it was a very limited menu but I can’t remember what the previous one was like.

I was in on Saturday with some of the Trailfairies. Coffee and macaroni was good, token lettuce on the side was pretty pointless. Food arrived quite quickly but seem to have the same issues with a lack of efficiency. The lady who took my order wrote food and drinks on separate slips and then told the girl what kind of coffee to make which seems to defeat the purpose. Same lady was also having to tell staff to go and clear tables. The weekend before I was with somebody that used to work in the Hub, they were reminiscing about how many customers they could just ask if they wanted their usual order. Changed days.

I got the feeling they’re having to basically restart from scratch- I noticed even the fitted floor mats had vanished, on the first day. They said they’re starting with a basic menu but will add to it as they get more set up, so I guess we’ll see.

The macaroni you had on Saturday is a recent addition, so they’re still building up and/or tweaking their offerings, hopefully based on what proves popular.

I like the endurotastic coloured napkins. 🙂 Edit: And the pulled pork ciabatta and the penne pasta.

Any more recent reviews of the cafe now they’ve had a bit of time to establish themselves? Heading down there tomorrow and if there aren’t nachos on the menu there will be trouble!

I was in the new cafe today and can report a HUGE improvement. It was packed, but on a Saturday at 1300 during school holidays that isn’t too much of a shocker. We queued for about ten minutes, and the woman did have the decency to apologise !

They had a proper coffee machine !

The menu was pretty simple, “natchos” whatever those are, burgers, hot dogs, baked potatos, soup, sandwiches, toasties, really big scones, some awesome looking cake. Egg and bacon rolls, pre-made sandwiches, pies and sausage rolls from Forsyths, all looked in order to me.

So, the all important toastie test. I asked for a non-standard filling, and they were happy to do it, so no frozen toasties there. Took less than 10 minutes to arruive. And it was nice, and even better: NO ORANGE CHEESE.

Furniture much nicer, better outdoor seats, moved the big fridge that blocked the entrance.

Its not The Hub, but we have to accept those days are over (sniff) but much better than the last effort.

was in there last sunday, had probably the worst bacon roll i have ever eaten. More fat than bacon and in a stale roll. Coffee was nice though

Was in today, they’d run out of potatoes which seems a bit of a schoolboy error but otherwise good. Wee bit of a queue to order but fast service, they’d sorted out their table delivery (well, nearly) with table numbers and that. Expensive though, £8 for a chili and chips, big mountain biker sized portion but still pricey. Pretty happy all in all. Still quite a small menu but maybe still a work in progress. Addition of big tvs showing riding footage of the trails is quite fun, not enough vids on it so it loops a lot but I liked that.

Atmosphere’s a funny thing, it felt really nice today but I couldn’t tell you why.

Was in about 10 days ago, two manager-looking ladies seemed to be observing how things were working, so it appears they are taking a suck it and see approach. I had coffee and cake and it was pretty good. Didn’t pay for parking though, I was staying in Peebles and rode in via Janet’s Brae, which seems to get steeper each time I ride it. My wife does reminisce about carrot cake at the Hub though.

Well we were in today… very disappointed I must say.

Little hot food available at 3pm – no nachos, no chips. Slow service, waitressing girls looked bored, and although it didn’t affect me there were MOUNTAINS of dishes and glasses awaiting to be cleaned behind the till. Really untidy looking.

I do want them to succeed though – anyone know how to contact them and I’ll give them my feedback?

B