Hi, I'm a regular at Glentress and have been frustrated at the (affordable) opportunities for public transport to this excellent centre.

I've come up with the idea of starting up a small business to cater for the demand. I'm certain that there is a demand and not just in the summer months.

I am sure this is not an original idea, nor will it be perfect, but I'm trying to canvas opinion for it from the target audience 🙂

I'd be running the service from the fife & edinburgh area with pick-ups from 8am – 9am, with return journey between 4pm – 5pm.

Upon arrival at the centre, i'd be hoping to provide the faclity to relay you and your bike to the buzzards nest carpark for a small fee.

Based on a mini-bus to cater for up to 8 riders and a trailer with space for secure transport of 8 bikes, I thought £10-15 transfer fee from edinburgh (return journey) and a shuttle cost of £2.50-£3.00 woudl be reasonable.

I really would welcome your opinions on the costs and any comments about experiences with a similar idea.

Many thanks, Al.

I'm hoping I can get the necessary permissions from forestry commission etc in place to make this happen.

Unfortunatly not from Fife or Edinburgh, but if I was I would think thats a fair price.

If you are ever there when we come up I'd gladly pay you a couple of pound for a shuttle upto the buzzards nest, You want a nice big sign on the side of your van.

Good Luck.

Bikebus does something similar from Glasgow, though the destinations vary week by week

http://www.bikebus.net/

Don't sink your savings on it but if you have a mini bus and trailer and your start up costs are low then by all means give it a go. I wouldn't quit my job for it though.

You've obviously looked into it but i'd assume that you'd probably only be ecconomicaly viable to run at the weekends until you get a client base/reputation. remember to factor in insuance which will not be inconsiderable and the tax man!

I would maybe even be tempted to use it myself if it was cheaper than using my car.

Good luck!

Upon arrival at the centre, i'd be hoping to provide the faclity to relay you and your bike to the buzzards nest carpark for a small fee.

You'd need to get agreement from FC for that.

Would you need some kind of minicab licence?

Sounds like a good idea though, and the price is very fair. You might want to think about airport transfers too.

cynical – awesome username considering your input :lol:.

I've made tentative enquiries with them (FC) just now and dont really see it being a huge problem, given that there is a service at AE on FC land, so a precedent has already been set.

Was considering a kind of underground guerilla (is that how you spell it) service to start with just to gauge actual demand.

Its not a business that I'd be hoping would fund my champagne lifestyle, just a quiet little service that would sustain itself financially (insurance, licencing, servicing etc).

Feedback is that a mini-cab licence would not be required, as have also started enquiries on that too. Its not too much hassle if it is, just pay your fee's take the MOT, do a disclosure check and bobs your uncle.

Glad to hear that you think the cost is reasonable though

I think you're right in that there would be decent demand – there's loads of Edinburgh undergrads without cars who would like to give GT a go for example. I'm a regular myself, although not so regular in recent months, and the only thing that stands out as a problem is the timetable.

All day at GT just does not appeal, and I say that as someone who loves the place. Even if I was ten years younger and didn't have 50 things to do on a weekend I think I'd struggle to fill a whole day at GT. I've ridden there loads, though, so I guess if you were newer to the place there's more to explore etc.

I think there is a place for that sort of service but I dunno if you could get enough to make it viable. What happens if you only have one person wanting to do it?

I would use it – especially if you could take the tandem 🙂 – but only a few times a year

When did you get your driving license?

before a certain date (around 2000 i think – but DONT quote me as it could be earlier) minibus type vehicles were included as standard, after that time they are not. If you renew your license you keep all your old stuff – so it is based on the date you originally passed your test.

This was a massive issue for voluntary groups a couple of years ago, basically the upshot of all the legal wrangling was that you can drive a minibus as a volunteer on a modern license, but you cannot be paid for that service (I.e. you would not be insured if it was proved that you had been paid to drive)

Older drivers have nothing to worry about and should be fine.

It turns out that you can still ask for the vehicles to be included on your test at no extas cost (?) but if you dont ask you dont get and are limited to cars and vans

not from my location, but this seems to sum it up nicely:
http://education.staffordshire.gov.uk/SchoolAdministration/HS/Procedures/TravelandTransport/MinibusDriving.htm

Cardendengsxr – Member
cynical – awesome username considering your input :lol:.

I'm a lwaye, that's all, I hhave no idea if it would be difficult to get, it's just that you hadn't mentioned it.

I think lots have considered it before but you'd have to charge more if you wanted to make a living out of it. Its only a week or two since they were talking about fuel prices jumping up again. I think you'd have to charge a flat rate for your services. What are you going to do if only one or two want to go. Another thing to consider is payment up front. Eight folk might be keen to go and then come the day only a couple turn up because the weather is crap. And I wouldn't rely on students being ready between 8-9am. But if you think you can do it, good luck to you.

I thought about this myself (I'd taken a similiar idea up to solid costing, doing the same sort of thing but for motorbike trackdays) but I didn't think it was going to pay for itself so gave up.

As far as the cost goes, it's about £10 for someone to drive themselves there and back from Edinburgh plus parking, for one person in a car so you could realistically charge more- the other direct competition is hire bikes, since people can always get the bus there and hire a Genesis for £20, plus whatever it costs to get there, a fiver I guess.

As far as the shuttle service goes, the problem there is that the Hub already have all the tackle to do that, they just choose not to. So, there's a potential issue there. Also the FC have been a bit awkward on uplifts before.

I think Garrylager has a point, all day at GT is a long time- I tried to work out a way to do 2 shifts, ie 9am pickup from Edinburgh, 3pm return and also 11am pickup from glasgow, 5pm return… Or if demand allowed, 2 shuttles from Edinburgh, but I didn't see that working. In the end I was looking at a later start to make it more accessible.

You need to plan for what you do if one of your passengers doesn't come back 😆 You'd obviously do t&cs that allow you to abandon them but that's still not a good option, but at the same time you don't want to annoy the other 7. What if someone busts a wheel at the top of falla brae and takes an hour to get down a 10 minute descent, etc.

Hum, what else. A small bus rather than a minibus might work better, you could easily accomodate 8 people plus 8 bikes without a trailer. I'd say you want to get as many people on board as you can really. Though without compromising comfort, you'll have tired riders on the way back. And muddy riders remember!

Oh, the magic words I think are airport and station transfer- there's only so many people in Edinburgh and the keen riders will tend to have transport (or bribe people with cakes) but if you can draw people in from elsewhere, that's bottomless. And that idea can grow legs, team up with a local guesthouse and do 2 day trips for GT and Innerleithen…)

And of course, there's plenty more places to ride- distance puts people off one-dayers at Kirroughtree out of Edinburgh since it's a long drive home, but that's not such a big deal in a comfy warm bus.

I think it has the potential to be a goer, I gave it up due to driving licence issues (ie, I don't have one, and being diabetic I'm quite restricted) but I took it far enough to work out that it's not a stupid idea, at least.

FWIW, I'd probably be a customer 😉

If using anything with more that 9 seats you would need a PCV license. It's the hire or reward bit that would stuff you up.

it's hardly a hardship cycling from the bottom car park [trail head] to buzzard's nest, FFS……… 🙄

I live in Edinburgh, and am pretty much car-less so would be interested in such a service. Potential things to think about:
[list=1][*]Money – you need money up front. Between £15-20, otherwise I would just ride down on my mtb. Problem is getting a van full of people regularly.[/*]
[*]Times – I do kinda see where you are coming from, with the whole day thing, however I rarely want to spend a whole day there. Maybe 9-3 or something?[/*]
[*]Problems at GT – Obviously things don't always go to plan, someone might have a mechanical on the black, or bin it, and be late back – are they just left? (I guess its pretty obvious, tbh)[/*]
[/list]

At the moment I either ride in the Pentlands (summer only), go out on the road (all year), or organise weekends away to make car faff worthwhile.

FCS make (some) money from car parking charges. Would you recompense them for their potential loss?

FCS make (some) money from car parking charges. Would you recompense them for their potential loss?

Get a life.

Arguably he'd be taking folk that don't have cars so wouldn't be there otherwise.

stevenmenmuir – Member

Arguably he'd be taking folk that don't have cars so wouldn't be there otherwise.

Would that be a condition of carriage?

SandyThePig – Member

> FCS make (some) money from car parking charges. Would you recompense them for their potential loss?

Get a life.

Eh? Do you really think that the FCS are just gonna let a service like this go ahead without considering the effect on their income? If even 4 of those using the bus search day would normally have driven that £12/day lost. Assuming a year-round service, that could be over £4k per year. I'd like that to go towards trail maintenance please.

Bear in mind that a new off road cycle route is to run to Peebles from Edinburgh whenever they get round to building it. That might cut the numbers for you a bit.

Eh? Do you really think that the FCS are just gonna let a service like this go ahead without considering the effect on their income? If even 4 of those using the bus search day would normally have driven that £12/day lost. Assuming a year-round service, that could be over £4k per year. I'd like that to go towards trail maintenance please.

You make a morally valid point, but back in the real world, what could they do to stop it, par putting a coin meter at the trailhead?!

I would have expected cyclists to encourage sustainable forms of transport.

SandyThePig – Member

I would have expected cyclists to encourage sustainable forms of transport.

See the post above yours

let me know if you get it up and running, I may book you for my stag in February.

See the post above yours

Will they ever get around to actually doing it though? … its been talked about for at least the last 5 years with little movement (that I know about). I did get a letter through the door a couple of years back about it and thought it might happen but haven't heard a peep since.

I don' want to piss on your chips but I reckon if this could be made to work, it would have been done, especially the Buzzard's Nest uplift.

Not everybody buys a ticket as you'd see from the notices left under their wipers. I'm not sure the FC do any more than this either. I wouldn't have thought they'd be too bothered it'll save some folks from parking at the roadside, parking at GT can be a right pain when its busy. Don't suppose they'd like the uplift idea, I'd have thougtht it would be best to drop them at the top or bottom but not both.

SandyThePig – Member
See the post above yours
Will they ever get around to actually doing it though? … its been talked about for at least the last 5 years with little movement (that I know about). I did get a letter through the door a couple of years back about it and thought it might happen but haven't heard a peep since.

How many people are likely to ride to and from Peebles and ride Glentress in the middle?

How many people are likely to ride to and from Peebles and ride Glentress in the middle?

Not many. I got the feeling its to improve the general sustrans network, rather than provide a Glentress specific bike route … but tbh I don't know a whole lot about it.

druidh: Your arguments don't add up. On one hand you are complaining about people getting dropped off at GT and not paying parking charges, but on the other hand aren't bothered about folks riding there. What about the case say, where a service operated between Edinburgh and Peebles? Would that have to pay a commission to the FC too?

I think it's a good idea and would gladly hitch a lift.
I live in Fife and don't drive so my missus usually takes me to the trail centres , problem being she doesn't ride bikes so sits in the motor , goes walkabout or pigs out at the cafe's till I get back.
I used to travel with some mates but they lost their mojo and seem to think that mountainbikes are just a fashion accessory and nobody goes out locally , Blairadam , far less travel anywhere.
I also agree that a donation to the centre would be a good idea , a couple of quid a head seems ok. To be honest I was stunned the 1st time I was at Glentress and it only cost money for parking.

da funk

Stevenmenmuir wrote, "Not everybody buys a ticket as you'd see from the notices left under their wipers. I'm not sure the FC do any more than this either. I wouldn't have thought they'd be too bothered it'll save some folks from parking at the roadside, parking at GT can be a right pain when its busy."

There's going to be more parking after the Ridiculous Billion Pound Mountain Demolition And Visitor's Centre is finished though I think.

But yeah, I'd be surprised if the FC would be too worried about the possible loss of parking revenue, they lose many times that from the ****s that don't pay as it stands.