I’m thinking of using the summer between Uni years to teach myself GIS: Does anyone have any experience of any of the online courses?

I use Qgis (freeware) at work and it’s pretty good. Download it and have a play about. It’s fairly intuitive to use and easy to get started. There also seems to be a good online community.

Thanks. I’ve already tried QGIS but I want to get some experience of ArcGIS as it’s the industry standard.

ESRI just want you to believe that ArcGIS is the industry standard.
They are under threat from multiple angles with Pitney Bowes, QGIS and others.

Our company is a very heavy GIS user and I think it is far more important to understand the concepts of GIS rather than develop experience in a certain software. Knowing what you’re doing and why you are doing it is far more appealing in an interview than being an ESRI addict.

All our work stuff is moving to an online system, not sure which, or what the previous was, but definite improvement (as long as your office isn’t on a satellite link like ours).
Got an intro to the new system in a couple of weeks. I’m not a main user, but more and more of our records need linking to it.

If you are near Llandeilo, I may know someone that could help you get some experience over the summer.

ESRI just want you to believe that ArcGIS is the industry standard.

In that case I guess every job site must be in on it as well as the vast majority of jobs that involve GIS state ArcGIS..

Thanks Timber but I’m near London.

Meanwhile in the real world, a lot of companies cannot afford to buy ArcGIS licences or the annual maintenance fees, especially if they are using add-ons such a Spatial Analyst. They use different software that does the same job, or 95% of the job for much lower costs or even free.
Don’t believe everything you see on the web.

Good luck with the online courses.

Eh? So genuine job adverts aren’t to be trusted then? Interesting.

to teach myself GIS

What do you mean by this, it’s a pretty vast subject area…

I’ve dabbled a bit in GIS for work, mainly writing code to process maps / Lidar data.

You can purchase ArcGIS for personal use at £10 per month. It’s just the basic version, though, so won’t include some of the functionality of other software, such as QGIS. I’d recommend doing a course to learn the basics, rather than concentrating on one particular software package.

What do you mean by this, it’s a pretty vast subject area…

It’s something I want to be able to add to my CV, primarily in geological applications. I appreciate I won’t become an expert, or even cover all of the aspects.

@gregsd

Yeah, i saw that, which is tempting.

I’d recommend doing a course to learn the basics, rather than concentrating on one particular software package.

That’s what I’d like: It’s just a case of finding the right course.

ESRI just want you to believe that ArcGIS is the industry standard.
They are under threat from multiple angles with Pitney Bowes.

Thanks for the plug. There bundles of new functionality gone into and still going into Mapinfo and Spectrum Spatial analyst. Now recognised in the top global region by Forbes for our spatial data and analytics content.

Beyond that Ill let other more knowledgeable people have the Open source debate but we have many customers and returning ex customers prefering reliabilty and content update of maintained product content.

The reason you dont see the job adverts is becuase our current software iterations are so easy to use people teach themselves or thier collegues after 1-2 initial training days from us. Trust me, i cant sell them more for toffee… 🙂

Edit : OP, there is some free MapInfo content on youtube if you google Mapinfo, Pitney Bowes have a youtube channel.

Having tried a few open source / free tools I just gave up and wrote my own code. The OS stuff didn’t seem to have up to date manuals / info, so it was very tedious trying to figure out all its foibles e.g. I was using MapWinGIS and even though there had been N major releases no one had updated any of the documentation for years.

In the end I just downloaded the data set standards from ESRI and worked it all out for myself.

I now have my own libraries to parse ESRI Shape files, USGS DEM and GeoTIFF data sets….

One thing which did suprise me was how crap ArcGIS is at handling lidar data, it uses IEEE 64 bit number format to store data sets which only need 16 bits, so all their files are 4x larger than they need be – a total waste of space.

It’s used a lot where I work and I’m sure it appears as a desirable skill on our job adverts. I’m guessing most of the graduates used ArcGIS to some extent on their Geography/Environmental Sciences courses.
It seems that to do anything really interesting with the software you need some programming skills. I’d suggest getting to grips with python.

ESRI offer loads of tutorials on their website, and there’s also this introductory book.

I’m guessing most of the graduates used ArcGIS to some extent on their Geography/Environmental Sciences courses.

it’s an optional module I can do as part of my BSc Geology, but I thought I’d get a head start. I’ll look into Python, thanks.

Is UNIGIS still going? I did a distance masters with them about 12yrs ago, was much more about the science than which buttons to press.

Occasionally use QGIS now and it looks a lot like ArcGIS used to look when I last used it. Most of the time now I just write stuff in python and use some of the mapping toolboxes for what I need.

ESRI just want you to believe that ArcGIS is the industry standard.
They are under threat from multiple angles with Pitney Bowes, QGIS and others.

Our company is a very heavy GIS user and I think it is far more important to understand the concepts of GIS rather than develop experience in a certain software. Knowing what you’re doing and why you are doing it is far more appealing in an interview than being an ESRI addict.

+1

HR departments that write requirements are happy to put software names… it makes it easy to write job specs for interview. At the interview I’d ask you about different projection systems and coordinate transformation.

I wouldn’t employ anyone that talked about software at the interview though. If you don’t know your CRS’s then you are just driving,software

SDE is also really ugly… and mostly inappropriate to using GIS for geological reasons. It’s a botch which duplicates metadata ..it can be good for limited metadata such as land use etc. but it really horrible when you want rich geological data.

@Mikey74 – my nephew is currently doing this course – https://www.conted.ox.ac.uk/courses/introducing-mapping-spatial-data-gis-online and he would recommend it. He has used GIS in his job but wanted to learn more about it.

I’ll look into Python, thanks.

That seems to be the language of choice for GIS SW, although learning Python to get into GIS is a bit like learning Geology to get into brick laying, rather a low level approach unless you intend to write your own GIS SW tools.

At the interview I’d ask you about different projection systems and coordinate transformation.

Out of curiosity what would you ask? Other than knowing they exist and there are standard transformations available, do you need to know much more? I suspect very few people could derive OSGB to WGS84 from first principles without a reference manual in an interview (and by very few I reckon one or two).

Knowing that different projection systems exist and that converting from A to B can cause issues would be a start. It also depends where you are in the world you are, the source data projection system and how you are using the data etc.

Probably worth starting with QGIS to see if you can handle the excitement of GIS, there’s a lot of users and a good community. If you want to pony up then ESRI do have a lot of training material online though I’ve not used much of it.

ESRI just want you to believe that ArcGIS is the industry standard.
They are under threat from multiple angles with Pitney Bowes, QGIS and others.

I’d say they are the industry standard software in the private sector, whether you like them or not. They do kind of price themselves out of the smaller/freelance business market or at least make GIS an unnecessarily expensive business for smaller companies, which seems insane to me, but ESRI pricing is a whole discussion in itsel. Dangermond is one of the richest billionaires in the states so it obviously works for them anyway. I’d not say they’re under threat from mapinfo or qgis, but they certainly lose a lot of potential users to them at the small business/freelance end of the market.

It seems that to do anything really interesting with the software you need some programming skills. I’d suggest getting to grips with python.

I don’t think you need to look at python until you’ve mastered the basics of GIS. Whether you use python or not depends on how you are applying GIS to your work, I’ve barely had to use it in ten years Gissing.

One thing which did suprise me was how crap ArcGIS is at handling lidar data

It’s crap at a whole lot of things. I’m still stuck on desktop 10.2.2 so not sure what Pro is like in comparison apart from a quick unimpressed play with the beta, but desktop is old, bloated, cobbled together, staggeringly slow to do basic things, terrible with 3D data, rant rant rant

I don’t think you need to look at python until you’ve mastered the basics of GIS. Whether you use python or not depends on how you are applying GIS to your work, I’ve barely had to use it in ten years Gissing.

depends how good your datasets are. Garbage in etc.

I seemed to spend most of my time sorting out manky datasets with at best questionable georeferencing and minimal metadata for which for me python is invaluable.

I seemed to spend most of my time sorting out manky datasets

Are there any other sorts of datasets?

It’s very rare to get any dataset from a customer which doesn’t need cleaning up….

Out of curiosity what would you ask?

As AlShamino said but also define a spheroid, datum and projection .. where would you use them … what errors occur in transforming them… what projection could I use for a EW straight line across Siberia or a NS line from Alaska to the Gulf of Mexico ?

I seemed to spend most of my time sorting out manky datasets with at best questionable georeferencing and minimal metadata for which for me python is invaluable.

My apologies for reverting to apparent “promotion” mode for the second time in one thread we (Pitney Bowes) serve spatial data and Spatial services on request. A lot of our spatial & algorithmic content is available as a service to avoid large commercial investment – for example, you could run some spatial address validation against a service and have it return transformed, validated or enriched with spatial content against your existing data as an enhanced data set.

In fact Facebook check-in does some of that and is our technology underneath the hood.

Anyway, I thought its worth knowing that at least one organisation is delivering on spatial & data as a service, I’ll piss off now and leave the discussion to you…

what projection could I use for a EW straight line across Siberia or a NS line from Alaska to the Gulf of Mexico ?

Obviously I don’t know what sector you work in but that’s a hell of a weird question to ask, unless it’s a trick question I’m tripping up on! Definitely not something I would ask, or have ever been asked! I wouldn’t be asking about defining spheroids, datums and projections in an interview either, that’s a university exam kinda question, I’d be looking for real world experience examples of them using datasets with different coordinate systems and finding appropriate transformations using EPSG/OGP guidance etc though. Just in case the OP is starting to worry…

In fact Facebook check-in does some of that and is our technology underneath the hood.

Suprised they haven’t just cloned your algorithms and cut you out the loop; they’re a pretty ruthless machine….

using datasets with different coordinate systems and finding appropriate transformations using EPSG/OGP guidance etc though.

Isn’t that what Global Mapper is for?

I have used globalmapper before, just to convert between file formats, but I’m not aware of it’s usefulness as a reference for projections and transformations etc. The EPSG and OGP guidance docs are invaluable though. Oh, as is Melita in ESRI support, who really knows her stuff.

My apologies for reverting to apparent “promotion” mode for the second time in one thread we (Pitney Bowes) serve spatial data and Spatial services on request. A lot of our spatial & algorithmic content is available as a service to avoid large commercial investment – for example, you could run some spatial address validation against a service and have it return transformed, validated or enriched with spatial content against your existing data as an enhanced data set.

If only life were that simple…

It should be, thats why it was designed that way.

@ mikey74 many years ago (ahem) I did the same before studying earth sciences at Leeds. I would say online is the way to go initially. It’s easier to find a web page, blog, tutorial etc. If you don’t like it, you can move on. A lot of the books are quite generic and not very UK based.

For speed try a starter like arcgis.com (you can sign up for free) and youtube. The concepts are transferable. At Uni, you’ll find a mix of open-source and commercial mostly Esri and Pitney Bowes. I’ve used all of the above and more over the years. Keep on learning, it’s a great line of work. It’s really mixed…generalist roles, programming, analysis. In true singletrackworld style, people have shared their opinions, form your own and buy a log burner after Uni.

I’m sure your software works well within some fairly well defined bounds. in my experience, step outside of those bounds and most packages fall over pretty quickly. Some companies respond better than others and some are more flexible but at the end of the day you are reliant on someone else coding the translation for you.

or you get fed up waiting and learn to do it yourself.

Ah yes, sorry I misunderstood.

My point was that we are trying to expose and provide common calculations and data requirements to single use, or subscribtive use of content rather than forcing a product and consulting bundle purchase at people – use the technology rather than own the technology. But i appreciate it doesnt cater for all and very complex needs you are referring to.

Ive watched some of the clever people at work do some of the stuff being mentioned on this thread and it can be mind boggling to a non GIS orientated person like me.

I’m currently working as a GIS analyst, although I’m working at an ESRI site I open Arc GIS about once a month 🙂

The OP asked for advice on online training courses, then clarified that he’s only interested in ESRI products. Loads of people reply saying just download QGIS which isn’t what he asked help with.

I suggest you learn some GIS basics first, before diving into ESRI. ArcMAP is like PhotoShop when you are still trying to get used to paint.

ESRI do some free training: https://www.esri.com/training/catalog/57630434851d31e02a43ef28/getting-started-with-gis/

There are a few others offering free courses:
https://www.class-central.com/mooc/5489/coursera-fundamentals-of-gis

I think it depends on what kind of GIS job and industry you are trying to get into. Try and specialise in one aspect to start with.

QGIS is way great to try and apply some of the concepts you will learn about so worth a download and it’s not that different from ArcMAP really in the same way GIMP isn’t that differant from Photoshop…

This thread has been bookmarked! I’m heading back to uni next year to do a masters in geoscience and have a feeling my deeply average GIS skills will need sharpening up. Undergraduate geology we never even touched on it so things must have changed a bit. I used ArcMap etc at my last job and it’s a deeply unintuitive beast. There’s a reason a lot of workplaces have GIS specialists so us rock lickers can go back to doing what we do best.

Obviously I don’t know what sector you work in but that’s a hell of a weird question to ask, unless it’s a trick question I’m tripping up on!

The scale is deliberately large but that is to make the question a bit easier.

For a geological perspective then a map of an entire basin is pretty normal with cross sections and projections of outcrop or wells into that basin. A map of the Barents Sea for example, I’d want a “straight line” to be a “straight line” etc. and I’ll probably have pre-existing basemaps I need to also use.

I might also need to use XY data from seismic with different datum’s and spheroids and I don’t want the errors in this to be huge.

This thread has been bookmarked! I’m heading back to uni next year to do a masters in geoscience and have a feeling my deeply average GIS skills will need sharpening up. Undergraduate geology we never even touched on it so things must have changed a bit. I used ArcMap etc at my last job and it’s a deeply unintuitive beast. There’s a reason a lot of workplaces have GIS specialists so us rock lickers can go back to doing what we do best.

What do you do?

Who’d a thought GIS was such an emotive subject 😆 but thanks for all the input. There seems to be some good tutorials on YouTube, on of which I did last night using QGIS.

There’s a handy looking intro GIS course over on “Future Learn” (free to follow)…