Ghetto Tubeless 20" tube method – advice

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  • Ghetto Tubeless 20" tube method – advice
  • thepodge
    Member

    I’m about to convert and wouldn’t mind seeing the answers to a few of those but also where are people getting 20″ tubes with removable valve cores?

    AlasdairMc
    Member

    eBay for the Schwalbe tubes

    Duffer
    Member

    Am i the only one who finds this amusing? You’re attempting a “tubeless” setup, with the application of a tube!

    Premier Icon zippykona
    Subscriber

    As an aside I recently ditched tubeless and went back to tubes but developed a mystery puncture. Some times it went down sometimes not.
    It seems one of my patches was leaking ,so as the tube went down the tyre was inflated by the escaping air.
    Overnight there was a 50/50 chance that the air would find its way past the valve.

    poly
    Member

    Am i the only one who finds this amusing? You’re attempting a “tubeless” setup, with the application of a tube!

    Well no its 1/2 a tube, 6″ smaller than the correct tube. This is a fairly standard method of ‘going’ tubeless – I wasn’t looking for a debate on the reasons why (puncture resistance for me – in particular pinch flat reduction) – tubeless is not really about saving weight.

    Presumably since you find it amusing – you have no practical advice to add?

    poly
    Member

    I am trying to fit Mountain King 2.2″ tyres to Mavic 319Disc (26″) rims using the sliced open 20″ tube ghetto tubeless method.

    I am struggling to get the tyre to seat on the rim (I don’t have a compressor but am using “the 2L fizzy drinks bottle air reservoir method). I also tried a CO2 cylinder. Examination of the problems suggests that the ‘backing’ circle for the valve makes the tube inflexible and too thick close the valve. It might be impossible to seat it 100% with this issue? And as that is where the air goes in it will never seat?

    I am using presta valves (as that is what was in the wheel before I started). However I now believe that there is just an insert in the wheel and I could use Shraders. My presta’s don’t have removable valve cores – which certainly isn’t going to help get air in there.

    SO, options:

    1. Go and buy a compressor. Seems a bit extreme but might be needed anyway – but is that guaranteed to fix the issue?
    2. Switch to Shraeder – are the ‘backing circles’ around the value usually smaller/more flexible – I’ve only got one old shraeder tube here (a 26″) and it looks a similar diam, but feels thinner at the valve? Do different manufacturers vary?
    3. Ditch this ghetto method and get rimstrips etc?
    4. Why do we need rubber to come outside the wheel anyway – surely I could trim it inside the bead and then the gunk would seal the tyre direct to the wheel – just like a stans kit conversion?

    JEngledow
    Member

    Presumably since you find it amusing – you have no practical advice to add?

    Ooooooooooh get her:

    Duffer
    Member

    I’m afraid i don’t have anything useful to add, and i wish you well in finding a solution.

    Personally, i’ve never had any problems using tubes with “Joes No Flats” sealant. Not one trailside puncture in 5 years now.

    Rickos
    Member

    I used the Schwalbe 20 inch tubes as they have a removable core. Went up very easily just using a track pump, so maybe try with Schwalbe tubes? Assuming you’re not using them currently…

    Premier Icon jamesybob
    Subscriber

    I had a fair bit of bother with this using an old rim brake XM719 and Nobby Nic 2.25 but got it to work. You need a valve with the insert removed to get the air in fast enough, I used a schraeder as I had a tool to get the insert out and the valve is bigger so easier to pour gloop into as I didn’t want to unseat the bead again once seated. In the end I got it to work with a track pump but it took a couple of days. Compressor at a garage didn’t work so I wouldn’t borrow buying on. I later used the 2l bottle and that worked well. I put sealant on the outside of the tyre bead between it and the tube / rim wall, you need this to be really well lubed and slippery so the tyre and can push up against the rim easily. I was also pumping one handed and working the bead into the rim and eventually it worked. After first time it sealed up pretty easy with the bottle compressor. Now have Stans rims and rim strips and it is a doddle. And went from about a puncture a week to one in a year so was worth the effort.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Running xm719’s with just the stans yellow tape and sealant. Removable cores and a high pressure source for the win.

    poly
    Member

    Mike / Rickos – Shraeder valves or were you able to find presta’s with removable cores? Googling Schwable it does seem they are widely recommended for this and seem to have a smaller ‘backing’ circle on the valve.

    Duffer – I’ve tried self repairing tubes in the past. They have been good for thorn type punctures but don’t like running low pressures & pinch flats in my experience. Whilst weight saving is not my driver – avoiding weight gain is so I am willing to have an experiment with what was largely described as the simplest/cheapest method of going tubeless.

    Premier Icon Johnny Panic
    Subscriber

    Unless I’ve missed it (possible) you haven’t said, but are you using lots of soapy water to lubricate ?

    b r
    Member

    Presumably since you find it amusing – you have no practical advice to add?

    Option 5

    5 – Buy Stans kit and follow the instructions…

    poly
    Member

    b r – is that not “my” option 3 or does the Stans kit do something different. If the LBS had had ‘a kit’ I would have got it.

    Johnny – everything was well wetted with soapy water and I ran some fairy liquid round the tyre bead before I started – I don’t think the issue is lack of lubrication – its that the gap is so big (right at the valve) that there really is nothing making the tyre attempt to move.

    b r
    Member

    b r – is that not “my” option 3 or does the Stans kit do something different. If the LBS had had ‘a kit’ I would have got it.

    Except I did say, ‘follow instructions’ – as most folk don’t and then post on here 🙂

    Premier Icon RicB
    Subscriber

    Stans would probably make no difference to your problem as it sounds like the tyre is too loose

    You either need/need to:

    Build up the rim strip more to improve the sealing

    Get some removeable valve-core tubes- much greater airflow if you have a high flow source (compressor or bottle method)

    Try using a spare 26 inch tube around the outside of the tyre to improve the sealing whilst you get it going

    Also, tricky to explain but try to manually seat the tyre bead by hand around the valve area. Then hold the tyre down with your hand whilst inflating

    themoodster
    Member

    Stans, it just works.

    Rickos
    Member

    Poly – Mine were Presta valves. I used Maxxis LUST high rollers. Tubes available here (amongst others) –

    http://www.justridingalong.com/schwalbe-inner-tube.html

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    I use stans valves which are Presta with removable cores. Bit of soapy water and enough air flow to get it blown up fast.

    Premier Icon Johnny Panic
    Subscriber

    RicB has it. You may need 3 or 4 hands though. Strap around the outside of the tyre, try to pinch the sidewalls next to the valve and pull them apart to hold the bead against the rim whilst you release your bottle compressor. And valves with removable cores.

    Premier Icon jasonm945
    Subscriber

    You can get Schrader Valved Schwalbes at Chain Reaction, you are able to remove the cores and will allow you to get the mostest air in at once!

    You may also find that fairy liquid in a 1 to 1 mix with water is a good way of helping to get a seal, although I have found that Conti’s are a tough tyre to seat due to their rigidity!

    Jay

    Premier Icon BlobOnAStick
    Subscriber

    I had a similar problem, so stuck foam draft excluder around the rim, underneath the tube strip. It helped get the seal established on loose tyres.

    Edit: also, make sure you turn the tyre inside-out for half an hour before you fit it, this gives the tyre more width once you turn it the right way round, and again helps to establish the seal.

    I think you are probably right about the valve backing which makes it tricky to get the bead to seat in the valve area so it doesn’t inflate. The stans system has valves with less backing and removable cores to alleviate a lot of the problems. Some things to try:

    Make the rubber very slippery with watery soap suds to give the bead the best chance of slipping into position
    Try stans rim tape and valves.
    A really tight fitting tyre

    Ghetto with non tubeless ready kit is quite hit and miss TBH.

    chives
    Member

    I ghetto’d the alex rims that came with my cube, using schwalbe tubes. To be honest, I think the removable valve core is a moot point, as I couldn’t get the beads to stay seated on the rim whilst re-fitting the valve. Beyond that, adding something under the ‘rim strip’ to effectively shorten the sidewalls of the rim may help. I’m using Stans yellow tape and presta valves now on another wheelset, but went back to tubes on the alex rims, as the ghetto’d setup seemed to burp at lower pressures. HTH.

    poly
    Member

    Just thought I would come back and tell you what I ended up with.

    Tried to get Stans tape in 4 different LBS – none had it in stock. All offered to order it – eh, no I’m hear for convenience if I want to wait for my impulse purchases I’ll get them online! 5th LBS said, no Stans rim tape, but we have “Joes” as we prefer it. My wallet was considerably lighter leaving. After examination there really is no difference between the Joes method and a cutdown tube. I would qualify that by saying their (presta) valve has a removable valve core and small backing circle to aid seating but think Schwable tubes (once I finally found somewhere with them in stock) are comparable.

    I tried with the coke bottle approach. No luck. I wasn’t getting enough flow/pressure (my flexible tube would pop at around 40 psi, but even when I managed to increase to 60 psi I had no success). Yesterday I admitted defeat and drove the 50 miles to my parents where there is a compressor. I could get the tyre seated with the compressor and valve core removed. It took a wee while even with the compressor and some wiggling of the tyre onto the bead as it filled – I’m sure there is no way I could have managed with the bottle unless I was really lucky. I couldn’t get it seated with the valve core in. After shaking etc, I managed to get reasonable seal except for a very slow leak around the valve if you put any pressure on the valve stem.

    Repeated process on the rear tyre, which went on much better and seated nicely even with the valve core in. I guess it might have been fine with the coke bottle and valve core out. This was despite a 2mm x 1mm puncture in tyre!

    By the time this was done the front seemed to have stopped leaking at the valve. Took for a short ride yesterday and still inflated 18 hours later.

    Conclusions:

    – A compressor is definitely the answer. I’m a bit short of storage space but think I need to find one at a sensible price. Presumably resevoir volume is important for this task?
    – Joe’s rim strips aren’t really any better (to my novice eye) than 20″ tubes – but did come with valve removal tool and adaptor for pumping presta’s from compressor
    – If I was doing it again (with compressor) then I would probably go 20″ tube method. If I didn’t have compressor then Stan’s tape may be better as there is less to get in the way of the bead finding the right bit of the rim.
    – I’m not sure that Mavic 319 + Mountain Kings are the ideal combination for trying this with. However anyone wanting to try it who finds this thread – it IS possible with the right kit.

    Not tested enough to know if burping is going to be a real problem but I don’t get particularly air borne or gnarly so I’m hopeful!

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Glad you got it sorted in the end, I end up down at the LBS to sort mine out normally as he has a decent air line.

    I’m not convinced the rimstrips are that worth it, my 2 setups 1 with Jo’s and 1 with just the yellow tape in both work fine, the only burping was when I cased a step up onto a protruding rock square on the back wheel. The removable cores are the biggest help for me (Stans presta valves are removable)

    Premier Icon Johnny Panic
    Subscriber

    Thanks for the update. It will only get easier and I doubt you’ll regret the change. I’ve also used gorilla tape as an alternative to stans tape and it seems to work well.

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