I used to be more or less totally indifferent to politics, my vote would make no difference and all that stuff, but since I met Mrs Pondo some nine glorious years ago she has encouraged me to engage with the democratic process. Now, my interest has followed a slight incline ever since and I find myself increasingly angered on a daily basis by how ineptly and self-servingly this country is run. Is it standard for people to be progressively more peeved with politicos or are we living in an era where our governance is of a particularly shite quality?

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Joseph_de_Maistre

Letter 76, on the topic of Russia’s new constitutional laws (27 August 1811); published in Lettres et Opuscules. The English translation has several variations, including “Every country has the government it deserves” and “In a democracy people get the leaders they deserve.”

Attributed to Joseph de Maistre

In many ways it’s very true, in most political systems there are a bunch of people that would vote for a penguin if it had the right colour next to it’s name those views are therefor not as important. The views and opinions you need are in the middle and hence most of politics is heading to the centre. Couple that with the sort termism that the population demands and a decent long term outlook on life is hard to find.

The entire process of being elected means you either need to be able to finance it yourself or sign up to one of the clubs to get them to fund you. To get in with them you need to convince them you are well suited to their views (regardless of your own) and then convince the actual population (well the centre) that you represent them. Doesn’t sound the best way of doing things.

Throw in the blanket media coverage, were things better previously or was there just a lot less scrutiny and air time to fill, was it easier to bury the bad news when people didn’t monitor and re read everything?

Then you get the blamer’s, FPTP is a terrible system if the system were different we’s have a better government. Probably you wouldn’t as people would change how they play the system.

My vote doesn’t matter as x always wins here – in the UKGE there were seats won with under 50% turnout so the can’t be bothereds could actually have delivered a candidate with a true majority.

Finally the arrival of social media means it’s really easy to get involved in politics. Unfortunately spouting off on facebook and hitting like to something does nothing practical to change things .

The US election seems to have been plumbing new depths for a while now, but this last week or so its started getting really ugly. I know it’s just the primaries – but the number of people willing to vote for TOTAL LOONIES is disturbing.

I’m a firm believer of de Maistre’s view – and also this from Douglas Adams:

It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it… anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

I know it’s just the primaries – but the number of people willing to vote for TOTAL LOONIES is disturbing.

It sums up those flag waving political activists on both sides. To join a party you need to want to do it, therefore you are self selecting the more extreme end of the political spectrum.

my concern is mostly centered around those times when politicians talk about something that I have in depth knowledge of, what they say is complete bollocks. does this then extrapolate out to everything they say?

You’d think they’d be trying to work for the good of the country. All the plans seem to revolve around making plans that will be expensive or difficult for the next government while giving themselves enough wiggle room to get out of it if by some freakish stroke of bad luck they get voted in again. Hence all the u-turns early in the first year.

I’d have more respect if they worked together, disagree by all means, but look to the future. Unfortunately greed would soon kick in because, let’s face it, they’re not exactly philanthropic in their outlook.

The person / party with the *strongest* marketing campaign appears to gain the advantage.

my concern is mostly centered around those times when politicians talk about something that I have in depth knowledge of, what they say is complete bollocks. does this then extrapolate out to everything they say?

+1

and the total inability to answer questions with out meandering off into some pre learnt script where all they do is slag off the other side.

angered on a daily basis by how ineptly and self-servingly this country is run

+1

It’s worse when you are one the civil servants having to implement a new policy that your department explained would not work at the consultation stage. We told you so, dickheads!

The nation needs a consistent, cross party plan to correct underlying structural failings in our economic and social policy. It will take 20 years/at least a generation to get it back on track. A lot of it will be painful for all members and “levels” of society.

Will never be put right when it is being run by short term politicians with one eye on their 4-5 year gravy train election cycle.

I propose a “reasonably benign” dictatorship to sort it out. Just need to get the army on my side…..

I’m not a revolutionary, I believe there has to be a ruling political class, I just think I should be in it.
Plus 1 for a benevolent dictator. Big fan of Tito.

Perhaps if we want to change politics for the better we need to take a long hard look at ourselves. Then act on what you see.

Voter antipathy has been increasing over the last 20 years, especially amongst the young, which means that they get effectively written off by politicians. We need more political engagement, not less.

Anyone who campaigns for public office becomes disqualified for holding any office at all.

Thomas More didn’t have it far wrong

We have a responsibility for the politicians we get but its not fair to lay the problem entirely back at the electorate.

It needs a wholesale simplification to bring it up to date, I would suggest:

Parish elections yearly who elect one candidate to sit on a unitary council.
Unitary councils send one premier representative to sit on a national council.
National councillors are responsible back to down the line that elected them for the desicions they make.

Get rid of the multiplayers of councils and mp’s and what ave you.

This will be better but won’t overcome the unfortunate truth that by nature humans are often not very nice.

(I agree with the point you wouldn’t want anyone in power who wants to be in power, didn’t Iceland try a system giving everyone a go by rotation? )

Is it standard for people to be progressively more peeved with politicos or are we living in an era where our governance is of a particularly shite quality?

Not much different to when I use to discuss/argue politics with my Grandad nearly 40 years ago. He DID say that at some point I’d understand, and now in my 50’s I can see he was right.

my concern is mostly centered around those times when politicians talk about something that I have in depth knowledge of, what they say is complete bollocks. does this then extrapolate out to everything they say?

Absolutely agree. And the use of the word ‘Investment’ (starting with Brown and continuing on with this lot) boils my pi55, when they aren’t INVESTING, they’re SPENDING.

At the last General Election my Misses asked me what was wrong with the Coalition (it’d just been commented on TV), many things I replied but one distinct advantage was that it reduced the amount of legislation they could agree to.

At least with a PR system a coallition would need to work together.

Voter antipathy has been increasing over the last 20 years, especially amongst the young, which means that they get effectively written off by politicians

This is the thing that could change and make a big difference. The people who vote are older, be they Daily Mail reading right wingers or Thatcher blaming left wingers, so that’s who policy is written for. Get young people voting and you’ll see different policies. Blair, for all his faults, was really the only one to do this with any success in recent memory, and he almost made politics “cool”.

At least with a PR system a coallition would need to work together.

We need to get over this, there was a vote, it was lost, you have to move on and work with the system we have.

“Anyone who campaigns for public office becomes disqualified for holding any office at all.

Thomas More didn’t have it far wrong”
I respectfully suggest that on this occasion Thomas More was talking out his arse.
The list of people who have benefitted their communities and the wider world through public office which they campaigned for is long.

Belgium seemed to do just fine for nearly a year without a goverment
We should give this a go. Such austerity. Wow democracy.

Then the Houses of Parliment could be turned into a day center for useless old gasbags, …wait.

And the use of the word ‘Investment’ (starting with Brown and continuing on with this lot) boils my pi55, when they aren’t INVESTING, they’re SPENDING.

Something that creates more value for society in the long-run _is_ investment.

Perhaps if we want to change politics for the better we need to take a long hard look at ourselves. Then act on what you see.

Well that’s food for thought – I see what you’re saying, have given thought to getting involved. Maybe I should give it some more thought…

The list of people who have benefitted their communities and the wider world through public office which they campaigned for is long.

That’s a fair shout, I think, but the current mob aren’t doing themselves any favours (well – the issue is that they seem to be doing themselves LOTS of favours, but you know what I mean).

pondo – Member
we living in an era where our governance is of a particularly shite quality?

It’s better than it used to be say 100 years ago, but it’s essentially the same thing, the owners extract surplus profit from the majority.

The “democracy” that we live under is just a veil over that fact.

It seems to me that the main parties are aiming for the middle ground more. Plus we’ve seen the rise of the career politician. I know it’s always happened (Pitt the Younger, Churchill) but not to the exclusion of almost all others. They’ve become a separate class, or two, of their own.

Yes Pondo the current mob are doing very well for themselves. There’s a danger in thinking that all politicians are the same they’re not. The risk is that believing they’re all the same let’s voter apathy in and our politicians get comfortable and become an “elite” detached from the rest of society. So by all means get involved in politics the activists on all sides tend to be somewhat more radical than the mps etc. Better idea still would be to look into participatory democracy.

Surely the present EU referendum is the living embodiment of how self-serving, and totally removed from reality our political class are? The future of the entire countries economy, with absolutely enormous implications for all its citizens, has effectively become a bun fight between a load of posh former school chums about who gets to play at being big chief big bollocks next!

And if you’re angry now, then whatever you do don’t read this…..

You may well combust! I very nearly did!

lunge – Member

We need to get over this, there was a vote, it was lost, you have to move on and work with the system we have.

can someone tell that to Nicola Sturgeon?

participatory democracy

What we really need right now is a nice big horrible devastating ….War !

I like Owen Jones, read Chavs got the establishment on the bookshelf ready to start soon, last I heard hes gone all anti EU.

What is a shame is lots of people complain about politics etc but do nothing apart from vote….we as a society have enormous power in collective action (if we wished to use it – and I’m not just talking about strikes) but as a society we seem to just accept our lot (and then moan)…we could change the status quo if we really wanted to…

Example of acceptance… Food banks….why are we putting food into them instead of saying ‘hang on a minute we shouldn’t have to be’…the UK has enough wealth to not have to have food banks…it’s appalling…..

can someone tell that to Nicola Sturgeon?

shhh don’t diss the Glorious Leader online, you’ll get called a traitor.

I’ve always had a healthy disdain for our elected leaders since I was old enough to express an opinion, but since 2010 I find myself increasingly alarmed by what I read in the papers and I hear from politicians.

The state of politics today isn’t just due to politicians believing they can get away with it, an awful lot is down to the media.

Britain is dominated by right wing media – News International, the Telegraph, the Daily Express and the Daily Mail. A surprising amount of people only read one newspaper, or don’t question the politics of their preferred newspaper.

Murdoch himself has boasted that he’s won every election since 1979…

We need to get over this, there was a vote, it was lost, you have to move on and work with the system we have.

We did not have a vote on a proper PR system. We were allowed a vote on a hodge podge system that was garenteed to loose. Hence why we where given the. Vote! The liberals fell for it unfortunately, so the chance of anothervote is zero.

dantsw13 – Member
At least with a PR system a coallition would need to work together.

Aye I can imagine The tories, UKIP, and the DUP all working together. What a fine society they would produce! 😆

Britain is dominated by right wing media

It’s a successful product, if there was a market for more left wing papers someone would produce one.

But its the Banks that are in charge whatever political party gets voted in. Its high time they pulled their own weight, everyone should cash in their chips and leave them to fend for themselves and gamble with their own hard earned.

vote with your wallet for a cash based creditless society.

dragon – Member
Britain is dominated by right wing media
It’s a successful product, if there was a market for more left wing papers someone would produce one.

😆 aye…

The right wing media panders to the basest instincts of human nature – which they reinforce and normalise.

Would they have the same appeal if they at least attempted quality informative and intelligent journalism instead of constantly promoting small minded ignorance?

I used to be a long time Telegraph reader, (know your enemy 🙂 ) but even that now panders to sensationalism.
The Times isn’t fit to carry the name.

If you start with the assumption that the House of Commons is full of idiots who don’t know anything about the most important thing in the world (which just happens to be what you do for a living), and who are all corrupt*, you will be starting off with a false premise.

Politics is all about herding cats, and there is more to it than deciding where you want the cats and declaring “let it happen”. Hence the apparent lack of simple straight talking.

* this IS true, however, of local government.