I got a bit narked off at my boss here claiming “we don’t produce any engineers here anymore so we have to hire them from abroad”. He didn’t even consider we might hire someone locally from another industry and train them up.

No training whatsoever in companies anymore, and why would you when you can get someone to relocate who can “hit the ground running”.

All the CV’s we get are people in their late 30’s, 40’s with 2 years experience here and there at companies all over Europe. No firm roots, no friends/family nearby can’t buy a house, no real pension, and the salary offered isn’t enough to save up much.

And if you only look for a job locally, you’re stuffed

#brexit!

Advertising for a hgv and lcv mechanic after 1 yr and half a dozen applicants still have a vacancy. No one it seems can or wants to fix bin trucks.

I think there is a town/country divide too, and I mean proper country, not bits of Surrey, rual counties where there’s sod all going on and not many big towns. Rural lads (and lasses) will get off their arses, they have to, they have to learn to drive, have to be independent, see people working hard in manual jobs all around them and follow suit, they’re willing to get their hands dirty and put some effort in to achieve their goals.

The education thing really is a pertinent point though, it is the lower achievers generally who’ve shifted from being the bulk of the labour force in manufacturing and engineering jobs and similar, to flogging cheap Asian made t shirts, iphones, crap over priced coffee and pulled pork burgers. Admittedly ‘we’ as a nation are consuming ever more of that crap all the time, but that’ll reach a limit too eventually. There’s a government white paper out on housing, which is basically just going to say we need to build many, many more houses than we are doing (happy days for me 😆 ) and we need the people to do that!

It’s no good bemoaning the influx of migrant labour and slating all foreigners for ‘taking our jobs’ when half of the lads who could be brick laying or doing carpentry are pissing about folding t shirts in new look.

And the other side of this is that in my experiance, most people who want to learn a new role (for which we will provide full training and even a full apprenticeship, still expect a salary that is equal to that of people who have been doing the job for years. It simply doesn’t add up!
I offered advice on here a while ago about someone wanting a career change into bench joinery, I offered (if the area was right) for him to come in a see what it looked like, and would happily have trained accordingly. If you find the thread, you’ll find the guy eventually saying ‘oh no, not going to do it, would have to take a pay cut to train’….
That’s just the way of the world, your skills are worth a market value, while in training, they are worth less.

I would have bitten your arm off for that when I was unemployed. Getting training in anything once you’re over 45 is a pain, there’s no money from public sources as you all ready have qualifications at level 3 or 4 so you can only get this for 5 or higher. In the main though my point stands that most employers look to benefit from somebody else doing the training. Construction is one of the worst offenders and that is probably down to the short-sight of the MCG.

My next door neighbour’s son could be a case in point. Currently in final year of civil engineering degree but has no interest in finding an engineering job. His plan after graduation is to make his holiday job in a kitchen at Thorpe Park permanent.

Construction is one of the worst offenders and that is probably down to the short-sight of the MCG.

The only contractor i’ve ever worked or that actively offered training to older people was coincidentally the only MCG /IKCG / Build UK member i’ve ever worked for.

There’s a government white paper out on housing, which is basically just going to say we need to build many, many more houses than we are doing (happy days for me ) and we need the people to do that!

Big problem is, that white paper isn’t going to translate into action while we have a government where many of the MPs are landlords (i.e. raking in a packet fleecing folk through private rental market).

It is tough but always has been – I am changing at the moment and it takes time.

But nothing unusual, indeed low unemployment and high employment rates suggest a more benign environment

I’m 40 and overweight and do an office job nowadays but I would still get my hands dirty and graft all day better than 20yo’s can do.

Thing is, you wouldn’t.

Even for ‘labourer’ roles you need the basic levels of CSCS card qualifications. Which is fine if you’re going to become a builder as a career or at least do it for the medium term. But you can’t just turn up at the gates of a building site with a hi-vis and safety boots and get a job anymore.

There’s a difference between wouldn’t and couldn’t!

I was thinking more about attitude really. Younger fold just can’t be bothered. Whether it’s genuine laziness or just an acceptance that life isn’t going to be as good as previous generations no matter what they do I don’t know.

There’s a difference between wouldn’t and couldn’t

A fair point. But it does illustrate the difference in the job market now Vs say the 90’s.

These days people seem to want qualifications/experience for everything.

As I said earlier in the thread, even when applying for minimum wage jobs just to keep some money coming in the feedback is “the job went to someone with experience or more relevant qualifications”. Even something incredibly simple like 3.5t van driving requiring nothing more than a driving licence, they want someone who’s done it before professionally.

This is why I don’t agree with the growth in apprenticeships. What do we do if there’s another housing crash (which is likley) and we don’t need any brickies or carpenters? I’m only in the position I am now because I have a fairly vocational degree (chemical engineering and chemistry), and the industry (oil) has disappeared.

I’d quite happily do anything right now, but agencies don’t want to know.

I’d quite happily do anything right now, but agencies don’t want to know.

In my experience, agencies aren’t worth jack.

I got my current job by approaching companies directly. One eventually took me on as a driver but then after realising that I had a decent education and sales experience put me to work on the shop floor.

I think getting the first foot in the door is the hardest part, but if you’re a decent worker then once you’ve accomplished this then its all good to go.

I got my current job by approaching companies directly. One eventually took me on as a driver but then after realising that I had a decent education and sales experience put me to work on the shop floor.

I think that’s changed too, 10 years ago everything was direct with either the hiring manager or an internal recruiter. These days everything is via an agency. Even if you do phone the company about a role, they often just send you back to the recruiter (because not having to deal with you before the final interview is precisely why they’ve outsourced it).

Education is another thing, the lads who perhaps didn’t do so well at school 20, 30, 40 years ago ended up going to technical college and getting a trade, eventually earning themselves good money, having valuable skills, and progressing well in life.

Yep, doesn’t seem to be an available route so much now.

My FIL left school with three O levels, all crap grades and went on to train as an apprentice QS. He had to resit his O levels to get 6 passes, which was the min required to become a Chartered QS at the time. Went on to have a very good career as a QS, kids in private school, large house etc.

Couldn’t do that now.

This ^ is true, even small companies use agencies and HR firms to manage staff these days as employment law is tricky to navigate and they don’t want the arse, they can just give an agency a person spec. and let them shortlist candidates.

What that misses out though, particularly when the job isn’t highly specialised, is a lot of people who might not have the most relevant qualifications, but are very intelligent, fast learners, hard workers, with transferable skills and are very professional, all of which are in my opinion more valuable than a token qualification if it isn’t really necessary.

Liability aside in specialist and professional roles, I’d rather have a team of staff with no directly relevant qualifications but who have a strong work ethic, a desire to succeed, a decent grasp of the english language and some professionalism.

I deal with ‘professionals’ every day, directors, chartered surveyors, engneers, senior managers, business owners, half of them can’t string a sentence together coherently. It doesn’t inspire much confidence in their abilities for me. People think that’s less important these days, but not in those types of roles it’s not. Dishing out £15 burgers fair enough.

Construction was hit badly in 08 and a lot of civil engineers etc just aren’t there anymore due to retirement and lack of recruitment in that period.

There are big tenders out there for some of our road schemes but there aren’t enough contractors out there.

I do wonder if the employment figures are made to artificially look good by unskilled, low pay and zero hour contracts.

That’s surprising considering both HE and local authorities cutting back on there spend last year and this year dosen’t look much better. You could always look to teir 2 contractors a few would look to take the step up plus you would save a lot on the asphalt.

Though we lost quite a few engineers in 08 that just left the country.

Yep, doesn’t seem to be an available route so much now.

My FIL left school with three O levels, all crap grades and went on to train as an apprentice QS. He had to resit his O levels to get 6 passes, which was the min required to become a Chartered QS at the time. Went on to have a very good career as a QS, kids in private school, large house etc.

Couldn’t do that now.

Yes you can you just need a bit more luck these days.

We are currently looking for an uneducated unemployed person to work with us and to bring them on with the end result hopefully of them becoming an engineer or qs

My FIL left school with three O levels, all crap grades and went on to train as an apprentice QS. He had to resit his O levels to get 6 passes, which was the min required to become a Chartered QS at the time. Went on to have a very good career as a QS, kids in private school, large house etc.

Couldn’t do that now

Yes you can, we have a lad in our office who started as an office junior straight out of school and was doing admin work for 5 years. We’re sending him day release to uni to do the five year part time QS degree. If you’re sponsored by an employer this is a common route for young QS’s