Just watched the German Gp, Ferrari are a complete disgrace for doing what they did. Alonso may have passed Massa, or he may not have, or he may have crashed in the process. But to deny us the opportunity to see them race, and to cheat Massa out a possible well deserved win is..well i think it is shocking. Alonso causes trouble wherever he goes, he is like a spoilt child, im glad Massa made it clear he was not happy. Ferrari…BOOO HISS…

It will be interesting to see how they explain that the order didn't alter the result.

McLaren developing an F-duct to give them an advantage over other teams, how could you??

That was the most boring waste of my time i can remember if the team orders SCANDAL is the best they can do count me out . MotoGP and WSB are so much better .

Its a shite 'sport' end of

Ferrari is the heart of the rot in F1.

The race would have been rubbish regardless of the team orders, let's be honest here. I thought Coulthard made the point best, the rules banning team orders are unenforcable so why not stop pretending otherwise?

The particularly amusing bit was the mechanic apologising on the radio. Cos, you know, that's going to make him feel better, isn't it.

I'm bemused why anyone watches F1. I enjoy Moto GP, which has some real characters and some real racing and there's overtaking. Educate me on the appeal of F1?

Ferrari is the heart of the rot in F1.

Aye Jean Todt and conflict of interest.

Eddie mentioned 'wonder if hes on the phone back to his boss Jean Todt'…

Surely it wouldn't be difficult for Massa to "run wide" on a corner, making it look like a genuine mistake letting Alonso through?

Didn't Massa say in the press conference that he let Alonso pass him because it was best for the team?
And claimed it was his decision alone.

Just watching the Senna piece on Top Gear. Where did F1 go wrong? Cars too good? Electronics, aerodynamics. Could they undo some of this stuff to make the racing interesting again?

For the first time in years I watched the last section of TG and was interested again.

What happened?!!

Well, there's always MotoGP on at ten on bbc2 which you can rely on. No team orders (no radio either).

what a bore! for me its motogp everytime

McLaren developing an F-duct to give them an advantage over other teams, how could you??

Given that there isn't an explicit rule in the regulations that prohibits developing your car to make it go faster, this is analogous in what way exactly?

PS nice to see everyone banging on about Moto GP as usual, your contributions to the Internet may yet earn you the Nobel Prize for Finding Threads You're Not Interested In Just To Attempt To Demonstrate You're A Superior Human And Definitely Not A Dick.

The same way as how Massa's 'independent decision' isn't in contravention of the rule that prohibits 'team orders'.

Yeas, we all know Massa was 'told' to let Alonso past, but the rule states that such an order has to be made overtly. Which it wasn't. Which is why Ferrari have received no further censure other than a fine. For 'bringing F1 into disrepute'. Ha! Following Max Mosely?? Do me a favour…

It's a multi-million dollar sport. You think ethics really play such an important part in it all?

Massa's just not anywhere near Alonso in terms of talent. That's pretty obvious.He knows it, we all know it. Ferrari's only chance of the WC is with Alonso. Chewbacca said as much, and he should know! Why would Ferraris 'waste' all those millions of dollars just so Massa could have a race victory, when the prize they're really after is far bigger?

Massa should have made it look more convincing. He won't be getting the full support of Ferrari after today's showing. And I dare say his mechanic might be looking for a new job soon. Massa's Alonso's rear gunner, and knows it. We're talking about an Alonso who beat Chewbacca to two WCs, let's not forget.

"The same way as how Massa's 'independent decision' isn't in contravention of the rule that prohibits 'team orders'"

The question is, how can they be fined if tey did nothing wrong? If they did do something wrong, why do they get such a pissant fine? The 2 contradict themselves quite neatly IMO.

Ethics schmethics. I agree with DC: that rule shouldn't be in there and team orders should be allowed. But it is and they're not, and not only are they clearly flouting the rule but they're also placing Smedley and Massa in the position of having to lie on their behalf. Team orders painted in various shades of bullpoop to look like something else is far less palatable than team orders – it's always been the case that Ferrari have had a first driver whilst McLaren have let their drivers race until the last couple of races at most, and that's fine, two different ways to crack the same nut. But the FIA's stupid rules are the rules, and Ferrari's bullpoop is nothing more than bullpoop.

I quite like F1 and I quite like Moto GP [Occasionally], but I'm sick to **** death of people popping up up to say 'oh but but moto gp's better'

You know, I'm a grown up. I too can use a remote and I do know that other sports/channels exist.
Why don't you stop jumping into F1 threads and start your own thread about how wonderful Moto GP is? Oh yeah….. because its just as boring and we're all bored of it already. BTW if its that good why isn't everybody watching it already and therefore ditching f1?

Going to bed now 🙁

If they did do something wrong, why do they get such a pissant fine?

Are you asking, "Why do Ferrari, the team with the biggest marketing weight for F1, who caused a near-seismic panic when they threatened to leave, have a long history of playing fast and loose with the rules and getting pissant fines, and were until fairly recently run by the guy who runs the FIA, get such a pissant fine?"

I'll do this again because I'm proud of it.

You know how much this matters?

Imagine: You're in a pub/bar/club. You need a wee. You go to the bogs, do the biz, zip up. But then you get the 'dribbles'. You go back to the group you pretend to yourself your friends. At first, you are mortally paranoid someone will notice; Will there be staining, wet patches, a smell? After a while however, you've forgotten about it completely and it worries you no longer.

That's how much it matters.

OF COURSE IT DOESN'T MATTER, IT'S AN INTERNET FORUM, NOTHING ON ANY INTERNET FORUM MATTERS, IT'S HALF PAST MIDNIGHT AND ANYONE POSTING TO POINT OUT WHAT DOESN'T MATTER CLEARLY NEEDS TO GO TO BED

night then

Bez – Member

"Are you asking, "Why do Ferrari, the team with the biggest marketing weight for F1, who caused a near-seismic panic when they threatened to leave, have a long history of playing fast and loose with the rules and getting pissant fines, and were until fairly recently run by the guy who runs the FIA, get such a pissant fine?" "

Well, if you put it that way, I suppose I'm asking why anyone puts up with this s**t? Just makes a mockery of the sport. There's not even an attempt to make it seem reasonable from Ferrari or from the FIA.

ANYONE POSTING TO POINT OUT WHAT DOESN'T MATTER CLEARLY NEEDS TO GO TO BED

And here is Wisdom. Fair enough really.

Hope the bed bugs bite. Really hard and the bites become infected and pustulent…

And here is Wisdom. Fair enough really.

Hope the bed bugs bite. Really hard and the bites become infected and pustulent…

Wow! How grown up! Are you on day release from the Teletubbies forums?

So some people (myself included) prefer F1 to MotoGp. I watch both, in fact anything with wheels and an engine I watch. No one pops up on Football threads and says oh but Rugby is so much better over and over and gettin abusive about it. Or on Mountain Bike threads saying that bogie flicking is much more exciting do they? If you don't like the sport guess what!!! Don't click on the link! You don't have to read the thread now do you?

D1ck!

Team orders: always happened. Always will.

If you don't think this is true, then shall we discuss Schmacher and any one of his team mates, Senna-Prost, Prost-Hill, Hill-Coulthard, Mansell Patrese, and on and on and on….

Oh and you MotoGP fans Rossi-Lorenzo…. 😉

There's always been a No.1 driver and a No.2 driver… At least Ferrari have the balls to point the gun at your face, rather than shoot you in the back…

Same as Hamilton and Kovaleinen in 2008 at Hockenheim, same as numerous other occasions over the years but because its Alonso and ferrari its a huge fuss.

No outcry when Hamilton does it

Oh and you MotoGP fans Rossi-Lorenzo….

Agreed, this was diabolical behaviour

Ohhh, that's just like Hamilton, and Button the other day…

Massa's just not anywhere near Alonso in terms of talent. That's pretty obvious.He knows it, we all know it. Ferrari's only chance of the WC is with Alonso.

The bits I watched when Massa was in front, he was pulling away from Alonso and putting fastest laps down on many laps….
…and it wasn't as though Alonso exactly roared away from him, once he got past.

The fine was a stupid amount. Should have been docked some points (perhaps both drivers docked the amount of points between first and second?)….?

This.

<rant>I've been a F1 fan for 25 years and team orders aren't new.

What rankles is the way that Ferrari did it. Claiming it was Massa's decision alone is the kind of blatant insulting lie that only the most arrogant sporting organisation in the world could think they could get away with.

Lets not forget that yesterday was the anniversary of Massa's near fatal accident in Hungary, to deny Massa the win that he would have earned on merit on such an occassion shows the respect that Ferrari have for there drivers.

Alonso is only favoured because of the money he brings Ferrari, Santander plus massive merchandising opportunities in the Spanish speaking world. Raikonnen who is arguably as talented (although he did have a poor run of form) as any of the current driver was totally marginalised by Ferrari for being a poor team fit, read not much marketing opportunities in Scandanavia.

Many commentators claim that F1 needs Ferrari, personally I think Ferrari is the reason behind F1's apparent focus on commercialism over racing.</rant>

its all made up

scripted to try and generate some headlines for a dull sport heavily dependant on advertising

Next they will all be taking drugs and deciding amongst themselves who deserves a win this race to keep their job on their team.

From remarks on this thread I have now decided that TJ knows nothing about F1.

Darren Heath's BBC F1 Big picture says it all:

"When Alonso pulled this cheeky grin, seemingly giving away his inner thoughts, it was just the moment I had hoped for.

"The press can hound him as much as they like, Alonso will go on denying any intra-team collusion because Ferrari's numero uno doesn't care – he's back in the hunt, team on his side with his team-mate in his pocket.

"As is so often the case in life – and certainly on the German podium – actions speak louder than words."

"Back in the hunt"

My ass.