Maybe a bit of a long shot, but….

A riding pal has had the frame of his Fisher HiFi (£1000 ish model) replaced under warranty by the carbon frame (at zero cost). Luvverly you may think. However, he absolutely hates it. He is falling off big time every time be hits a root or a rock, whereas his older bike would just go over it.
Now, he's not the most technically logical nor intuitive rider, more a fit charger. The other components have merely been swapped from old bike to the new one and he does recognise that he needs to ensure that like any new bike, it is set up properly. However…..
Does anyone know, or can suggest if there are any reasons for it being such a different bike. Can you just swap components and you just have a lighter version of your old bike. Is carbon fundamentally a different feel to aluminium? Are the leverage ratios on the rear sus fundamentally the same?
Any thoughts or advice I can pass on

Many thanks

Andy

In what way is he falling off? Is he getting bucked over the bars by the bike being more stiff? Is he losing traction in the corners because the bike is more skittery?

It might be that he needs to ride a little softer and relax more, so that trail energy doesn't vibrate right through him and spit him off.

Also double-check – is the headset tight? Are the wheels, brake-mounts (and anything else) tight? Sounds silly, but if the bike has been re-assembled and he is straight away blaming the frame material it could be that he's missing something obvious. Tyre pressures the same?

Are you sure the geometry is the same – sounds a bit like the BB height or right higght could be higher or his weight maybe more forward. I can't think the sl increase in flex etc could make that much difference – or is it in the mind?

Thanks for your thoughts. He gets kicked over the bars and following him the rear does seem to hop more than perhaps you'd want. He doesnt seem to use full front travel, yet the rear does seem to be fully used…

He's not sitting down at this point is he?

Dont think so. its generally on downhill sections. what are you thinking of then???

I just though maybe his technique was lacking and previously he was getting away with it, whereas the new frame might be just that bit more lively and enough to send him over the edge.

I've just realised that I had assumed you were talking about a hardtail, but this is actually a full sus? Sounds like rear rebound damping is too fast.

Glen. I think you're on the right track. The carbon frame is almost certainly most 'racer' oriented and probably requires a more sensitive set of rider skills (which may be lacking). However I do think your right about rebound being too fast. That can be adjusted, but if the suspension linkage is different between old and new bikes, that too COULD also affect the lively nature of the handling and I wondered if anyone knew if the linkage arm dimensions were the same or different

He has an RP23 Fox shock. Is rebound adjustable on that?
Cheers
Andy

Whatever the cause, the bike is still perfectly rideable and from a good manufacturer with decades of experience in making nice mountain bikes. Even with the rebound way too fast and very quick steering and flat bars (for example) it would still be perfectly possible to ride without going over the bars. I would say this, obviously, but a good skills session is less than a pair of tyres and would deliver so much.

All Fox shocks have rebound adjust – try is fairly near the slow end.

Thanks Glen

Andy

I remember when that carbon frame was launched as a Hifi 'pro'.
IIRC it was slated as being to light & so thin was the carbon, that the bike would not hold a line because the frame would flex.

it might be a red herring but worth bearing in mind that additional 'spring' may be being generated by the frame flex.

HTH

is it one of the fancy new fox shocks with two positive air chambers? If so has he set it up properly? You have to fiddle with the pressure, bounce it though the travel a few times, check the sag, then repeat untill the sag is correct. Does sound like a setup issue soemwhere, as someoen said, fox shocks work best with the reboud almost closed off.