A mate of mine has just bought an on one 456 summer season run with 120mm forks, he currently owns a stumpy with 120mm travel.

In what situations would the hardtail be a better choice of bike? Bearing in mind the frame is 5.5lb+ (as its a large) surely the weight difference would be negligible.

This is fuelled by my love of the Ti Prince albert in the thread below, but i cannot see how/where it would benefit my riding

My full-suss is quite a bit lighter than either my hardtail or rigid bike. That means that as far as being the "better" choice of bike the full-suss should always be the one, however in practice I ride the hardtails more often.

my Alpine weighs in at 14.4kg….

my mates Liteville 301 (130mm rear, Fox 150/130/110mm things upfront) weighs 12.3kg….

ouch.

The hardtail would be better on jumps and anything pretty smooth where sus isnt needed, i.e. alot of trail centre type stuff.

The sus would obviously be better when the trail is bumpy.

ROFL Harris, if I recall correctly, those prototype Ti frames were under 4lbs, so I'd imagine an average build would come in around/< 25lbs, not 30lbs.

In what situations would the hardtail be a better choice of bike?

Wherever you want to ride a hardtail. HTH

was more aimed at the summer season riders to be honest mike, a cheap yet heavy hardtail frame with similar angles to a full sus. No benefit imo and pretty much no better than a full sus on most terrain.

PAs are lovely – wish i had the cash for 2 bikes 🙂

was more aimed at the summer season riders to be honest mike, a cheap yet heavy hardtail frame with similar angles to a full sus. No benefit imo and pretty much no better than a full sus on most terrain.

I listed the areas where a hardtail would be better.

When you feel like a different kind of challenge, or if the trails are so smooth that the full-sus makes them boring.

Why would it be "better" tho david? surely whenever you climb rear suspension helps to grip better and on landings fs is better? no?

Oh, and for a lot of people riding a hardtail isn't a choice due to financial constraints…

ROFL – Full sus makes it harder to pump and get air from jumps. Ever wonder why dirt jumpers don't use full sus? or most 4X riders?

And when its smooth you can pump round berms etc better on a hardtail. They are generally more responsive. Whether this is better is your decision I guess.

Hardtail is better for jumpy stuff with smooth landings (ie trail centres) because you can get more 'pop' off the lip of a jump with a hardtail – a full suss will soak some of it up. I usually put my propedal on for jumpy stuff on my Pitch (and for most trail centres generally).

edit: doh beaten to it twice!

This business of hardtails being "better" on particular types of terrain or whatever is bobbins.

A hardtail has a couple of advantages over a full sus bike:

– the frame is cheaper (meaning the cost of the bike is less, or for a given cost the components can be better);

– for a given cost, it is possible to create a hardtail frame (and probably therefore bike) that is lighter than a full sus.

– there is less to wear out/go wrong becauser the frame does not have any moving parts.

After that, you're just looking at whether you can get away with riding a hardtail on the terrain or for the type of riding (you mostly can) or whether rider ability is a mcuh more signifcant factor in speed, comfort or enjoyment than the typre of bike (it mostly is).

The only "advantages" of my hardtail over a full sus of similar quality are:

– it saved me about £500
– it will never need its bearings replaced

The disadvantages (basically, it lacks an efficient rear-wheel suspension system!) are not sufficiently significant to make me value the suspension more than my £500. But the hardtail is not in any meaningful sense better.

😀

i prefer my ht when riding stainburn work that out lol i find rock gardens easier on ht

BigDummy – see above. If the hardtail is not better for 4X type courses, then why do 4X riders, including the pros, use them? Dan Atherton rides a Ti hardtail and i'm pretty sure it's not because he can't afford full sus.

but if you had 2 bike s- one being a hardtail, one being a full sus, both weighing "ish" the same, with the same travel up front, why would you give up the comfort of full sus, when as pointed out if you want to zip/pop/pump, bob on the propedal?

oopsie, double post.

I asked a certain Mr Hill same question on a recent Dartmoor ride, he rides his PA or Patriot, both are about the same weight.

He answer wasn't at all helpful, he just said it offers a different type laff.

My opinion is for most riders, a HT would suit smoother trails and most trail centres and fun trails, with the FS being most effective on Rootier and rockier trails…

Personally either can be enjoyed on either type bike, but preference will always be a personal thing.

I think i'm going to bow out now before this degenerates into another hardtail vs. full-sus debate! Some people like hardtails, some people like full-sus. Get over it. :-p

4X riders mainly use HT's for the better 'snap' from the gate,some WC 4X tracks tend to advantage the rider who holeshots.

PERSONAL PREFERENCE

but if you had 2 bike s- one being a hardtail, one being a full sus, both weighing "ish" the same, with the same travel up front, why would you give up the comfort of full sus, when as pointed out if you want to zip/pop/pump, bob on the propedal?

Because you prefer the hardtail, for whatever reason.

I can't imagine how anyone could prefer a hardtail for the rocky trails I mostly ride in the Lakes, but for local rides or trail centres I think a hardtail would probably be more fun.

I wouldnt say full sussers are any harder to jump? Big bouncy 150mm travel bikes will always be a handfull over tight jumps whether theyr hardtails or full sussers, thats why jump bikes tend to be 80-100mm front and back (if they'r full sussers). I actualy think full sussers are easier to jump, just throw your weight into the transition and let the rebound do the rest.

Although saying that I did 40 miles on the BMX last week and had a right hoot, didn't go very fast (29-13 gearing and 20" wheels saw to that) but had a right good laugh sending the slick park tires pumped to 60psi sideways at every oppertunity!

On my Remedy I like to lock out the front and run the back soft! Unfortunately it doesn't seem to improve anything, but it's my personal preference

In what situations would the hardtail be a better choice of bike?

For me, when I have been riding my susser for a bit and feel like a change.

But then I don't spend a lot of time pondering this type of question…

Full sussers are definitely harder for jumps. You have to go faster to get the same height as you would on a hardtail which i guess means there less efficient.

Depends on your technique though I guess, although i dont see many dirt jumpers riding full sus.

the spesh has bearings that dont like uk conditions.
the summer doesnt, so you can use it in the winter.

off to ride cutgate with said lad now, have a nice afternoon

FS is for those who don't much care for knowing how to ride a bike.

i'll ride my Alpine over the same trails as almost any joe on a FS.

as i rode over the alps last month i was saddened by the number of joes riding FS's and mincing down the other side.

FS isn't the holy grail to being a MTBer. i blame the mags (particularily the german mags) for pushing the idea that you have to have a FS in order to ride.

I broke up my i-drive 5 to build up my Inbred and am now enjoying my riding again. Probably more to do with the i-drive being sh1t I suppose. I may look to buy a decent full sus next year tho, one that doesn't pogo like zebedee on amphetamines

I have a 30lb+ hardtail and a 30lb+ FS and I hardly ride the FS as it flattens trails and makes tough bits easy.

alpin – Member
FS is for those who don't much care for knowing how to ride a bike.

i'll ride my Alpine over the same trails as almost any joe on a FS.

as i rode over the alps last month i was saddened by the number of joes riding FS's and mincing down the other side.

FS isn't the holy grail to being a MTBer. i blame the mags (particularily the german mags) for pushing the idea that you have to have a FS in order to ride.

I take it that's a rigid singlespeed bike? Geared hardtails are much easier to ride, I couldn't believe the number of JOes I saw in the Alps mincing down stuff on them 🙄

Seriously though, not bad trolling, I'm sure someone will bite. Or are you just stupid ❓

Didn't you sell your PA a while ago Rob?

Keep up Cynic, 2010 is all about the Hard-man-tails.

maybe that needs qualifying a little,

a BMX or 80mm/rigid jump bike will go over billiard table smooth man made jumps and pump tracks better. I can pump the local track faster on a BMX than a lot of guys on DJ bikes can ride it by the time they've squidged their way through the rythym section.

On the other hand my ASR-sl was the most air happy bike I've ever owned, and the average jump on a trail (trail centers excluded) tends to be at the end of a rocky run in, have a take off covered in roots and probably has a landing with a little more to worry about than the average man made jump.

ooOOoo it'as fashion-whores like you that bring our sport down 😡

Its not a sport al ( for most of us) Its a pastime. A sport involves competition and scores.

4X and dirt jumping are (largely) their own little thing, aren't they? Does anyone who is a "normal" mountain biker have a 4X bike as their only/main general-duty mountainbike?

A punter buying an On-One 456 summer and asking "why is this better than my full-sus stumpjumper?" doesn't want to be told "because you can race 4X on it".

I take the point about the jumps, but for general mountain biking purposes it's peripheral. 🙂