Full-on anti theft tactics from Preston police

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Full-on anti theft tactics from Preston police

132 posts & 50 voices | Started 7 months ago by Mr Agreeable | Latest reply from scaredypants

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Mr Agreeable - Member

Have we done this yet?

http://www.goinggoingbike.com/blog/stop-and-proof-campaign-brings-results/

Feeling somewhat torn about this. It's great to see any initiative aimed at tackling bike crime, but personally I'd be hard-pressed to prove that any of my bikes were mine (as they are pretty much all custom builds, second hand, etc).

I know people who've been given multiple "producers" for no clear reason other than that they were driving ratty old cars, and I have to wonder whether more widespread use of this could result in a similar massive waste of everyone's time.

Posted 7 months ago #
Singlespeed_Shep - Member

If some copper wants to sit through my Forum activity and ebay account he's welcome too.

But realistically if it just "people who arouse suspicion" then suppose its not that bad. But in practise that rarely works.

Posted 7 months ago #
Klunk - Member

a purchase from the classifieds on here or ebay is no guarrantee a bike is not stolen.

Posted 7 months ago #
thisisnotaspoon - Member

But realistically if it just "people who arouse suspicion" then suppose its not that bad. But in practise that rarely works.

Spend you're days riding round Fulwood on a IBIS Mojo wearing your burbery cap backwards, scouse tuxedo, and a joint behind your ear?

If not I suspect you wont be stoped.

Posted 7 months ago #
paulrockliffe - Member

Innocent until proven guilty?

Sure bike theft is a problem, but if the Police can't prove that my bike isn't mine, they shouldn't be anywhere near it.

It is mine btw.

Posted 7 months ago #
allthegear - Member

It's an interesting idea but, surely, it can't be legal???

To take something away from someone, they must need to prove it doesn't belong to them??

Rachel

Posted 7 months ago #
allthegear - Member

oh and I love the bit about targeting men on women's bikes because they are more likely to be stolen! I ride a man's bike - is that stolen, too???

Rachel

Posted 7 months ago #
Junkyard - Member

The rider is then asked to prove, either with a receipt or some other proof, that the bicycle actually belongs to them. A failure to convince the police that the bike is not their own will see the bike being confiscated by the police.

Yes I always carry this with me at all times when on a bike.
That second sentence is so baddly worded ....if I fail to convince them it is NOT my own will that not make them convinced it it is mine?

Rachel can I have permission to make a hugely inappropriate but well meaning joke about what has been stolen

Posted 7 months ago #
brakes - Member

I would join the police force if they would put me full-time on this.
.
In fact I'd be willing to offer my bike thief identification services for a small fee (one of those police issue SC Chameleons) - I can spot a stolen bike at 50 paces.
.
oh, and try to see through the poor editorial, I'm sure* the police should be give some credit for their discretion

*not that sure

Posted 7 months ago #
chakaping - Member

A more detailed definition of what consititutes "proof" would probably help here, but it sounds like some discretion and common sense would be used.

I presume they have checked that it is legal to do this, in which case I presume they could also confiscate most of my clothes and my groceries (as I don't keep my till receipts)?

Posted 7 months ago #
thisisnotaspoon - Member

oh and I love the bit about targeting men on women's bikes because they are more likely to be stolen! I ride a man's bike - is that stolen, too???

Statistics! And yes, I'd hazard a guess that anyone in general riding an (for want of a better word) unsuitable bike is more likely to have nicked it than to have been to a shop and had advice, it correctly fitted, etc. doesnt mean that evry woman on a mans bike nicked it, but it's probably a greater proportion than in the larger population.

50% of the worlds population are women, does that make me a woman?

A higher percentage of men riding womens bikes than men riding mens bikes are riding stolen bikes, should we leave the men riding womens bikes allone as they're also a minority and their right to ride a womens bike should be respected despite the fact it's more likely to have been nicked?

Posted 7 months ago #
chakaping - Member

oh and I love the bit about targeting men on women's bikes because they are more likely to be stolen! I ride a man's bike - is that stolen, too???

I've just dialled 999, expect a visit from the cozzers shortly and we'll find out.

Posted 7 months ago #
Lootenant - Member

And this is what got my son's bike back. I just happened to drive past as the police were 'interviewing' a couple of kids who had aroused suspicion and there was the bike stolen from my son a couple of days before.

I think the 'proof' required from them was something like 'Is this bike yours?', 'Where did you get it?', 'How long have you had it' then they started to wriggle.. 'So, you found it dumped behind West View did you?' (No they didn't.)

I understand the reservations about this approach but it's really exactly what goes on here when some reports a bike stolen. It's paying attention to someone riding a bike that doesn't fit with them.

Posted 7 months ago #
thomthumb - Member

whilst i can see the logic i would be massively pissed off if they took my bike halfway to work.

Posted 7 months ago #
richmtb - Member

While I'm not that keen on all pervasive police powers this does actually seems like a good idea.

I think most police know the difference between a genuine cyclist without a receipt and a scally on a ripped off bike

Posted 7 months ago #
aracer - Member

As hesitant as I am to assume common sense from the police, surely this has to be a good thing? The thing about the man on a woman's bike sounds to me like a very lame made up answer because they had to give some explanation of who they'd think was suspicious without giving their real reason. Most of us on here would have a pretty good idea of what's a stolen bike, and I'm sure the officers involved in this do too.

Posted 7 months ago #
aracer - Member

i would be massively pissed off if they took my bike halfway to work.

Which is fine, because they won't be doing that.

Posted 7 months ago #
radtothepowerofsik - Member

Rachel can I have permission to make a hugely inappropriate but well meaning joke about what has been stolen

What has been stolen?

Posted 7 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

When they talked about doing this is edinburgh one of the criteria for suspecting someone was that they had no helmet. I ask you! you couldn't make it up! Of course you are a bike thief if you have a nice line in natty flat caps

Posted 7 months ago #
richmtb - Member

"Thats a nice bike Sir. But..."

Looks a bit small for you?
Isn't that a womens bike?
Haven't you got shoes for those pedals?
Single pivots are a bit outdated

Would sort out 90% of riders on stolen bikes!

Posted 7 months ago #
carbon337 - Member

So a man on a pink 456 - would this be suspicious? Seanodav - you reading this?

Posted 7 months ago #
thisisnotaspoon - Member

When they talked about doing this is edinburgh one of the criteria for suspecting someone was that they had no helmet. I ask you! you couldn't make it up!

Again it's probably either statistics (or as someone said, made up to hide the obvious statement "they look like they nicked the bike").

The average expensive bike owner has been conditioned by the evil capitalist governments who are funded by the helmet manufacturers into believeing they should wear a helmet. Bike thieves have nicked the bike to try and keep up with the capitalist society but not nicked a helmet.

Of course you are a bike thief if you have a nice line in natty flat caps

Prove it, I need to see this fact referenced.

Posted 7 months ago #
Mr Agreeable - Member

I think that despite being a fully paid-up Guardianista bleeding-heart, I would like to see this rolled out more widely. The reason being that, as Lootenant says above, hardly any stolen bikes would be recovered if it wasn't for use of this tactic (albeit on a less widespread basis). You'd basically be restricted to bikes that turned up at the scene of another crime, or ones that were advertised for sale and spotted by the owner.

Posted 7 months ago #
seth-enslow666 - Member

The common sense approach is a good thing but I'm not that convinced most of the bobbies have any these days!

Posted 7 months ago #
Mr Agreeable - Member

To take something away from someone, they must need to prove it doesn't belong to them??

Think you're confusing reasonable suspicion (the grounds for stopping and searching someone or confiscating property) with reasonable doubt (the standard that has to be exceeded to convict someone of an offence).

I reckon that to be effective it would need to be backed up with a fair bit of training, or assigned to officers who were reasonably bike-savvy. Stopping someone for not having a helmet is clearly imbecilic (although I do like the idea of this happening to TJ), stopping someone riding on SPDs in Nike Airs may not be.

Posted 7 months ago #
pjt201 - Member

I just don't believe this is a power the police should have. They're essentially being allowed to pass judgement on whether or not a bike is stolen - this goes beyond their remit.

Posted 7 months ago #
richmtb - Member

Stopping people not wearing helmets isn't that daft an idea though is it. While not wearing a helmet or any riding gear (eg gloves / cycling jacket) on an expensive bike doesn't always scream thief its a better indicator than someone on a similar bike clearly in riding gear.

If it means fixie fashionistas in funny trousers gettin stopped then i'm all for it!

Posted 7 months ago #
Mr Agreeable - Member

They're essentially being allowed to pass judgement on whether or not a bike is stolen - this goes beyond their remit.

No it doesn't.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_rights/legal_system/police_powers.htm

Posted 7 months ago #
Mr Agreeable - Member

Stopping people not wearing helmets isn't that daft an idea though is it. While not wearing a helmet or any riding gear (eg gloves / cycling jacket) on an expensive bike doesn't always scream thief its a better indicator than someone on a similar bike clearly in riding gear.

Outside of That London, I suspect this approach would lead to police giving grief to at least 50% of people on bikes.

Posted 7 months ago #
project - Member

Got stoopped riding a Raleigh clubman road ,with only the raleigh badge on the front, and raleigh bike stamped onto the seat stays, blue lights and sirens, they said they had a report of a bike being stolen, plod 1 looks at the bike, and says no thats not the one its a shimano 105, says so on the chain stay, the one we are looking for has big tyres, and is called an orange.

When i pointed out the bike was a Raleigh, and they made a raleigh Banana, and it was bright yellow he told me he wasnt stupid.

Posted 7 months ago #
aP - Member

When I commute to work I hardly ever wear cycling clothing as its only 5 miles so there's no point. I don't always wear a helmet either. Would that be good grounds for stopping me seeing as I either ride a Ti Brompton or a bespoke 853 Salmon mudguarded road frame with Campagnolo. I do quite often wear a Save Herne Hill cap though... ...and trouser clips

Posted 7 months ago #
anotherdeadhero - Member

Sounds like a good idea to me.

Posted 7 months ago #
davetrave - Member

Ha Fulwood! I regularly stopped at the lights at the junction at the top of Eastway and Watling Street Road on the way back in to barracks from a jaunt around Longridge and had assorted spotty yoofs on their rusty BMXs saying I had a nice bike and asking me how much it cost - told them I'd give them an answer if they could keep up with my Cav-like sprint (I wish) the last couple of hundres metres to the front gate of camp. If they could, the men with guns soon put them off any thoughts of trying to swipe my bike...

Posted 7 months ago #
Junkyard - Member

What has been stolen?

It was a poor choice of word and I I should have said what was missing and t was just a joke. Just leave it as I may have over stepped the humour mark...SORRY rachel if i did

Posted 7 months ago #
seth-enslow666 - Member

It also seems to me anyone not dressed in nice riding gear will be more prone to getting harassed by the police. Much the same way that drug dealers that go about in 50 grad BMW M3s do. Then they pull up all the honest people driving old shonky cars who drive them because they can't afford a flash motor.

I would be we pissed off if a cop came asking me for proof the bike is mine and then taking it off me just because I can't be arsed carrying around the till receipt.

Posted 7 months ago #

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