So there I was waiting for my train this morning, browsing through the MTB magazines and came across a section of fellow riders with some pretty darn serious injuries.. most of them facial due to OTB moments.

Now I don’t mind being called scarface and sometimes wear my injuries like a misplaced badge of honour.. but I wonder is it form vs function that we choose to ride some sections of trail where a full face would be more in order in case of a crash?

I recently started riding with one in my backpack, admittedly it does feel a bit stupid on some sections and also a pain to carry two helmets but have found it useful where i know i’m taking on something that is slightly out of my depth.

But try pedalling up a long hill in a FF…

You’re carrying both a full-face and a normal XC lid around? This has got to be a troll.

Doubt it’s a troll, considering the amount of people I saw with FF helmets @ Llandegla last weekend, some of them on 100mm XC hardtails too!!

But try pedalling up a long hill in a FF…

This.

There are still lighter lids with face guards, but most seemed to have died a death.

There’s an element of horses-for-courses – if you’re uplifting all day or climbing 1000 vertical metres on fireroad before plummeting back down on singletrack, then wear a full face (and strap it to your sack for the climb). If you’re on rolling, undulating terrain or in traffic, then a full face is a terrible idea.

You’re carrying both a full-face and a normal XC lid around? This has got to be a troll.

Dunno, seen a few people out doing it. And it may be compulsorary in Enduro’s next year. TBH it’s not such a bad idea, if you can live with the weight then there aren’t really any other negatives? If you have to deal with people face to face every day turning up to work with it hanging off might not be so well recieved.

Having said that I pick my lid based on the climbing, if there’s more than a little then XC lid regardless of the decents.

Personal choice isn’t it?

I guess it is! I’m very much prefer travelling light i think, a full-face hanging off my backpack would get very irritating on anything other than a smooth climb.

tbh I only took my FF on one ride so far, as I knew i was going to session some sketchy stuff…

just that after seeing those injuries it just made me curious as to whether lighter FF helmets are something that perhaps could be considered after all URGE have been touting the Archi Enduro (not sure how popular it is though)

just a thought. I have no intention of carrying two lids on a regular basis. I rather do what PMJ mentioned makes more sense.

considering the amount of people I saw with FF helmets @ Llandegla last weekend, some of them on 100mm XC hardtails too!!

they`ll be needing one of these too..
nice shirt
Dress for the ride, not the accident….

IF there was a light FF with the protection of a DH helmet, and the weight/venting of an XC lid we would all wear it no?

Sadly it doesn’t exist, so we need a compromise.

Why slag off someone on a 100mm HT wearing a FF? Maybe they can’t afford 5 bikes, and are trying to improve themselves and feel more secure in a FF.

Dress for the ride, not the accident….

Makes sense but……..

I went for a ride in the Peaks a few weeks ago, and I used to live in Sheffield. While I lived there I had a crash that pretty much kept me off bikes for 2 years (barely walking for a fair ammount of it). Coming down one decent I was thinking to myself I’m a heck of a lot faster than I was 6 years ago (a mix of new bike and skill), crashing wouldn’t have been pretty.

I’d have one of those URGE helmets, but I’ve not got an URGE shaped head.

Ah, walking the line between reckless and nancy. (Anyone with less protection than you is reckless, anyone with more is a nancy. 😉 )

I’ve seen people ride in motorcycle enduro with no armour and an open face, I’ve seen back protectors at Ashton Court. The guy with knee guards might have a knee that can’t take another big hit, the rider with the chinpiece might have shelled out for a new set of teeth already. Or maybe they both just don’t want to get to that stage.

Wear what you feel you need and a big **** off to anyone who doesn’t like it.

Simon side – dress for the ride, not the accident? Really? So why wear pads/ helmet at all then? I be never hurt myself ON my bike.

I think I agree with Klumpy here ie ride with what you feel you need ..

only you know which of your body is more vulnerable to another sustained injury…plus at my age recovery time is starting to become a real b£%£h

If I tried to wear my full face for more rides, I’d end up having more crashes through being distracted and sweaty. You do see people riding around with them on their backs but would you stop and put it on for every descent or little feature? I wouldn’t, but crashes don’t happen on your timescale. Best helmet is the one you’ll wear not the one that was tied to your camelbak when you hit a tree.

What really confuses me is full face, no pads. Knee pads are far more likely to be of service to you than a full face, and less of a drawback to wear too. Maybe they don’t look moto enough. Full face, Leatt and no pads!

thisisnotaspoon – Member

And it may be compulsorary in Enduro’s next year.

Luckily it seems not- British Cycling were going to follow the UCI, the UCI were going to impose full faces without listening to any of their enduro people… But luckily they proved too incompetent to do anything. BC may make their own rules but for now it’s entirely in the hands of the race organisers and the riders, as it should be.

I’ve entered my first Enduro at QECP in July. I may well ride the transitions with a FF strapped to my pack, to use in the timed sections.

The rogues gallery in MBR makes me wince every month. Having broken 2 bones last year I have a much greater fear of injury.

I would also say dress for the consequences of the ride you are on.

Dantsw13.. all the best

won’t that just be a PITA to keep changing on an Enduro event?

I’m a big fan of doing whatever makes you feel confident. I’ve never had a big off padded up, and most of the damage I’ve done to myself has been due to low speed incompetence.

That said, seeing some guys pulling out the full facers and pads at Llandegla at the weekend did make me ride the next section like a jessie.

I’m very much prefer travelling light i think, a full-face hanging off my backpack would get very irritating on anything other than a smooth climb.

While guiding in Cham this seemed to be the way to go for most of the locals who refused to buy a lift pass.

Fireroad to the top, plummet back down. 😉

Fit b*ggers they were too.

If you could make it light enough it would be interesting to have a helmet with a hinged face guard like some motorbike helmets have

Ooh! Can it have pop-down sunglasses too, like my old Caberg? All airwolf.

The thing is I don’t thik a FF is necessary for all riding, I wear mine for DH, that’s really what it’s for, ride any distance in it and it’s limitations become clear; it’s hot, heavy and that fatigues the user pretty quickly probably making them more prone to an accident…

I’ve never thought much of “Semi-Full Face” type lids like the Met parrachute or Giro Switchblade or the current urge jobbie, I can see merit to the concept of a lighter, better ventilated lid with a bit of light weight jaw protection, but these aren’t proper FF lids and I’d not expect anything like the level of facial protection a proper FF gives you from them, their biggest danger would probably be giving some users a false sense of security IMO…

Lugging a FF about is not unheard of but sometimes you have to balance the need to protect your noggin and looks against the amount of crap you lug about on a bike ride and how tired and prone to mistakes that makes you…

It’s a balance of risks thing, if I believe the riding I’m off to do carry’s enough risk to need a FF lid, I’ll take it, if I’m intending to cover more distance and take fewer risks I’ll opt for an XC or pisspot

Making FF use for timed stages of Gravity Enduro is an interesting one, I’d say on balance it’s probably not a terrible idea, if everyone has to carry and use one then all competitors are subject to the same safety benefits and helmet lugging “Handicap” and it serves to sooth organizers and insurer’s worries a little and keep the events running then Great…

I suppose though you’d want to see some accident statistics from the last couple of years racing used to justify the choice though rather than a knee jerk decission, and I think a rule change like that would have to be done with plenty of notice, i.e. a firm decision made and publicised well before the season started not chinese whispers on forums…

I used to ride with a Met Parachute XC full-facer jobby. I didn’t actually get it for the chin guard, more that the chin guard gave more protection to the back of my head as it was lower and the only helmet on the market at that time with similar coverage was the Giro Xen, which didn’t fit my big head.

Parachute was fine, but hard-riding/climbing in it was hell. Managed to throw up in it once on one climb at the Dyfi Enduro and that wasn’t pleasant at all…

I replaced the Parachute after 5 years as I thought it was time to. Luckily there were much more “trail” mtb helmets on the market by then, I love my Uxex XP100. (And sold the Parachute on ebay for £50!!!)

Hinged face-guard sounds good, but it would be a serious design challenge to make it light enough for mtb, yet still secure to actually work, and look “acceptable” to the market

It’s comforting to know that I can turn to STW if I ever need to know what degree of protection my bike and riding is worthy of. 🙂

You’re carrying both a full-face and a normal XC lid around? This has got to be a troll.

Why so? I’ve done it – not often granted, but being proud of my boyish good looks I have been known to carry a full facer round with me if I deem the going to be a bit “gnar”.

Last time I did it was when I did the full Walna Scar circuit with the drop off Walna Scar itself down into Torver being the final descent. Provided you’ve got a pack that’s designed for this it isn’t a problem (Camelbak Havoc in my case which has straps/pocket designed for carrying a full facer).

Met parrachute or Giro Switchblade or the current urge jobbie

I had a look at the Urge in 18bikes, it’s not like the met/giro versions at all, it’s more like a slimmed down FF with a big mouth hole than a XC lid with a chin strap. I’d have bought one, but It was nowhere near big enough.

yeah teh Urge does come up small on their large as well but the interchangeable pads can sometime alleivate the ‘tightness’ no experience of the MET or Giro seen them around but they look rather weird and the chin thingamajig looks like it would snap…

Cookeaa –interesting point you make on ensuring everyone is handicapped etc

Sorry ir_bandito, but what?!?

You flogged a 5 year old lid on ebay???

And worse yet some mug paid £50 for it?

How do you sleep at night?

I’d happily use something like a switchblade in a one piece but I don’t ride full face simply because it’s too hot and sweaty for the riding I do.

cookeaa – Member

Making FF use for timed stages of Gravity Enduro is an interesting one, I’d say on balance it’s probably not a terrible idea, if everyone has to carry and use one then all competitors are subject to the same safety benefits and helmet lugging “Handicap” and it serves to sooth organizers and insurer’s worries a little and keep the events running then Great…

The main objection is that most riders don’t own full face helmets… But also, some enduro events have pedally or even climb sections where a fullface wouldn’t be appropriate, so a simple catchall rule would end up restricting the format.

The “helmet all the time” thing makes it a bit trickier- I saw people being told off by a commissaire for not wearing a helmet while pushing up a fire road, I felt like asking where his was since he was also participating in the extreme sport of walking 😆

Anyway… Getting a bit off the topic I reckon.

The other issue with xc lids is that they can slide off your head or move out of place in an impact. A ff is much more secure. I’ve been using a cratoni shakedown fir a few months now. Nice that the face guard bolts on or off; so you can use it for general riding and bolt the face on as part of the padding up routine for the more g-nah bits. I had thought about a dh lid but Id need to carry an xc one as well for the traversing sections on the way up.

You flogged a 5 year old lid on ebay???
And worse yet some mug paid £50 for it?
How do you sleep at night?

Advertised quite clearly as being 5 years old and being sold due to the age, 99p start with no reserve. If some (several) mug(s) wanted to part with the cash to fund my new helmet, then I can sleep quite soundly.

A ff is much more secure

Bit of a generalisation there, an open face helmet attached correctly should be just as secure as a full face, especially if the chin-guard of the full facer takes any impact and can potentially slide around the wearer’s head if not atatched correctly. Wasn’t there a vid kicking around youtube a while ago showing someone getting their full-face knocked off completely as they hadn’t done the strap up?

Hang on, was that a 5 year old helmet that you threw up in, then sold on ebay?

Maybe a slightly exaggerated response on my part, but do people really flog used lids?

I used to work with a fella who insisted on sawing his old lids (regardless of their state) into unusable pieces to protect bin divers from their own stupidity…

I don’t think I’d ever flog a lid on once I’ve used it, just seems a bit like flogging your used undies…
Still one mans old, vomited in cycle helmet is another’s “treasure”…

That Urge thing just doesn’t “Look right” to me where the Parachute and Switchblade were more like XC lids with a chin guard bolted on it looks someone’s taken a junior hacksaw to the front of a perfectly good FF lid, OK so the front is a bit more open but it still looks like it would cook your head on a long climb compared with a basic XC type lid and I reckon it wouldn’t be great at preventing facial injuries (sort of the point of it)…

The main objection is that most riders don’t own full face helmets… But also, some enduro events have pedally or even climb sections where a fullface wouldn’t be appropriate, so a simple catchall rule would end up restricting the format.

I sort of accept your point but TBH is it really that much of a problem to get a FF lid and strap it you your camelbak for transitions? I mean how much justification do MTBers really need to buy new kit normally? A basic FF lid is what £50 – £60? factored against that £2.5K dandyhorse and other kit it’s not much of an ask really.

It is a Gravity racing based format, the injury risks are potentially there to justify FF use. FF compulsion for DH racing is accepted at all levels without any real problems these days…

Of course with no compulsion I can’t personally say I’d bother with a FF lid, make it a rule, everyone has to lug one about so nobody gains any real advantage…

It all comes down to the safety justification not cost IMO, there may well not be sufficient grounds to implement FF compulsion, but I don’t think it would be that awful for the sport if it was bought in…

I only really ride dh now so I always wear a full face. Thinking I might start wearing one for bmx as well as I ride a lot more relaxed in one. Just feel a bit of a tit wearing one on the bmx but then again I quite like my face the way it is and my mushroom-shaped pisspot pro tec still looks daft.

but do people really flog used lids

I wouldn’t normally, but I saw there was a market, quite a few were being sold, so I thought I’d make a few quid. Personally, I’d never buy a used helmet. Especially if if smelt of vomit (IYes, it was clean when I sold it!)

I guess the argument about compulsory full-facers for racing could be realted to the argument for compulsory helmet wearing on the road. You don’t have to, but its common sense.

Whatever you wear, DO NOT wear one of these

There is no better way of saying “I’m a goon”

Full Face helmets are mandatory for the Italian SuperEnduro series. As is wearing a helmet at all times.

2 helmets seem to be the preferred choice.

Buying a used helmet would seem to be natural selection in action to me.

However…

I wouldn’t normally, but I saw there was a market, quite a few were being sold, so I thought I’d make a few quid.

There is a also a market for crack, doesn’t mean you should sell it…

cookeaa – Member

I sort of accept your point but TBH is it really that much of a problem to get a FF lid and strap it you your camelbak for transitions?

Enduro’s a great introductory race format, barriers to entry aren’t good for that- think of it not as “Oh, it’s only an extra £50 on top of all I’ve spent” and more as “Oh, it’ll cost me £100 to try this one race, that’s an expensive day out and I might not like it”. Sure, lots of events are selling out but I think enduro does the most good for the sport when it attracts new racers not old.

Also, it’s not just a cost, it’s a perception- DH looks scary, to a lot of people it’s “not for us”, but enduro is just riding your bike really.