Edukator’s views on this are a touch extreme, but it wasn’t that long ago that most people worked within their local towns and villages. You only have to go back 20 or 30 years. It was the affordability of motoring that changed that, and changed the demographics of Britain.

Of course, many would view those changes as a good thing. But after massive growth the car peaked here in 2006 or something and has been in decline ever since.

We see progress as, well, progress. Bigger is better. More the merrier. Etc. But so many people are agitated in their cars nowadays. They’re great, I couldn’t be without mine, but like so many things in Western society today they are vastly overused, and thus the pleasure is sucked out of them.

I do hope that one day we can move towards a more pleasant structure where noisy and dangerous machinery no longer forms such a massive part of the world. Imagine standing in a city that is blissfully quiet, while you listen to the birds. Imagine a world where public transport is a joyous experience! Yes we can dream. I welcome the day they serve breakfast on buses.

This doesn’t really have anything to do with the price of fuel, but I do think there are valid, and even much more preferable alternatives, even if it does take a while to get there.

It has everything to do with the price of fuel, Butcher. Your utopia will never come to be while petrol costs only £1.40/l.

Is everybody really missing the point that we’re talking about a paradigm shift here?

Well that would be lovely. And I fully agree, a world without commuting would be indescribably better than the one we have now.

However, people seem to be talking about simply whacking the price of fuel up. If you did that without any kind of workforce restructuring the results would be catastrophic.

Edukator, you’re really not coming across very well on this thread. You seem to think everyone should be just like you. I’m very glad they’re not, incidentally!

while im not as extreme in my view as edukator i do believe people could minimise their exposure to fuel prices by not striving for that bigger house but infact choosing to fit their needs.

I don’t think we are striving for huge houses – this is a red herring. However many of us would prefer not to bring up our families surrounded by poverty, crime and deprivation. This is what makes us want to live in ‘nice’ areas – you can’t really blame us for that can you?

Your utopia will never come to be while petrol costs only £1.40/l.

The big problem with simply hiking the price is that it affects everyone indiscriminately. It’s a regressive tax. There are far more intelligent ways of reducing the travelling people do.

I regularly get stick for buying an ex council house

Who from? Mates taking the pi55? Never come across that before.

I am in the fortunate/unfortunate position of not having a regular place of work so I was free to buy where I most preferred to live – with the cost of usually having to commute for around 3 hours a day 🙁

The big problem with simply hiking the price is that it affects everyone indiscriminately. It’s a regressive tax.

Well would be good to get rid of VED and add a bit to fuel instead.

Some intelligent ways then, Molgrips.

Affordable, efficient public transport

Integrating housing needs into industrial planning applications. 19C factory owners built housing for workers nearby. Current planners ban this type of arrangement.

Council house programmes with means-testing of candidates and priority given to people working with walking distance.

Requisition of empty residential property after two years and a super tax on empty business property.

More flexibility in property use, allow any business property to be converted for residential use (but not the other way around).

Worker passes for buses and trains with a maximum fare per km.

I don’t think we are striving for huge houses – this is a red herring. However many of us would prefer not to bring up our families surrounded by poverty, crime and deprivation. This is what makes us want to live in ‘nice’ areas – you can’t really blame us for that can you?

Its shit town planing that has resulted in for the urban sprawl though. Look at the popular nice house that people like. Lots of nice small old cottages many terraced of smei-detached. Look at all the shit house being built in new estates, Tiny detached houses with the to smei. Poor use of land and positioned so as to make driving essential. Add out of town shopping centres + out of town business parks all separate from each other all with their own car park rather than making a destination that encompasses uses in one place it is sprawled making public transport infeasible.

Edukator – Member

19C factory owners built housing for workers nearby. Current planners ban this type of arrangement.

This post suggests you’re aware of some of the problems encountered today, yet others are quite contrary.
Care to enlighten? 😐

To answer the op’s post i paid £1.48 per litre recently when i filled up with shell v-power, my car is rather old (30yrs) and needs a high octane fuel 98ron+ due to the valves and valve seats and as it has been set-up on the rolling road to run best on shell v-power it’s the only premium fuel i will use, thus i have a 32mile journey to get to my nearest shell garage. Petrol prices are a **** rip-off for those on low wages, especially if you stay in a very rural area and rely on a car to get about, admittingly i don’t drive anywhere near as much as i used to a few years ago when i had “disposable cash” and didn’t care about sub 20mpg in my previous car. Nowadays a tank of fuel with very careful driving will give me an average of 33mpg or near enough a 400mile range which lasts me two weeks getting back and forward to two minimum wage jobs in rural locations, despite staying within 25miles either way of the trails at Kirroughtree/Mabie/Dalbeattie i have only rode them once this year due to the petrol costs involved.

Fuel is far too cheap, hundreds or maybe thousands of cars go past my house everyday and only a tens of bicycles.

I’ll vote for £6/l. Smaller cars driven slower can’t be a bad thing.

People make choices. If fuel is more expensive they will choose:

– to live closer to work

– to use public transport

Madame walks to work in eleven minutes, my son has walked to every school and may even walk to university. My “poorly placed house” is in the most desirable part of town with the highest average household income, the highest price per m2, and within walking distance of every serivce you could wish for, and all that for a very good reason; location, location, location.

Edit: I nearly forgot to mention that the bus for the ski resort is an easy walk away even with ski boots and a couple of pairs of skis.

I haven’t counted the cars but traffic isn’t an issue. A thousand cars is about one a minute during the active day. One car while tying this. Triple glazing means I have to listen for them.

Edit: I’ve no doubt been through periods poorer than you, I didn’t use any fuel at all then.

Edukator : Found this pic for you to cut out and keep for future reference, no need to thank me 😉

Let’s make fuel more expensive!
Really hit the poor!

Who bears the brunt of air pollution, noise pollution and climate change? The rich or the poor?

don’t drive then. Or moan. Or drive n moan. Is this a cycling forum or OIL corporation mediation class? let’s all ask ourselves how we’re doing with our oil CONSUMPTION shall we, shall we? hmmnn. RIDE A FUCKEN BIKE!!! cycle as much as you can then, cos you knoe fo sho it’s the most efficient form of getting about? Just put your metaphorical forum cleats where your bonkers opinions are and ride a fooken bike to and from work you lazy gobtarts…etc etc ride to work..blitheer wibble..