I’m pretty sure that I already know the answer but thought I’d see what you all thought.

I’m crap at steep/loose/slippy& slow and I’m looking to blame my 200mm discs. Anybody think that 20mm is my downfall? Please..

SLX m666 by the way, although I was just as poor with my Hope M4’s

Whats actually going wrong?
Locking the front?
Not slowing the front?
Weight distribution?
Size of bike & Rider?

bit more info needed otherwise it’s just guess work

Locking the front. I’m comfortable in most situations apart from steep stuff on the brakes. The problem is more than likely in my head but I’m clutching at straws and hoping that big rotors and Shimano’s sharp brakes can be my scapegoat 🙁

Steep, slippy, loose stuff? Last thing you want to do is use the brakes.

What you need are wider, grippier tyres. 4″ or thereabouts.

So are you locking the front?

Doing your braking before the steep/loose is always better, keeping weight on the front wheel and avoiding front braking (or at least heavy stuff) is a help. Perhaps

The problem is more than likely in my head but I’m clutching at straws and hoping that big rotors and Shimano’s sharp brakes can be my scapegoat

Means a skills course might be a better investment

5 posts in, boom!! You should get a bike fit as well.

More than likely nothing to do with rotor size just technique unfortunately 🙂 Have you fallen off?

Yep. If you need to, roll into the steep slippy and brake at the bottom, but braking on the way down is going to be interesting and possibly painful.

I have a skree slope that caused me problems for ages until I ‘got’ this.

There is some truth maybe in the rotors, they’ll increase your leverage and decrease your modulation, but really this is about braking in the wrong place.

Pretty sure that I employ the exact opposite of ABS in these situations. As for skills courses, I have attended one or two..
I think Daz has half the answer, get off the brakes and steer & Mike has the other half, more weight on the front, I was just wondering if less fierce stoppers might help?

Nah Si, same old same old. Once I’ve mastered a section I’m fine but till I have 🙁

Going fast (relatively speaking) is easy, going slow and steep is much harder.

SLX M666 have great modulation if set up right. If they’re too grabby it’s your finger not the brake.

In that case it’s just a balls thing. The less comfy I feel, the harder I squeeze (brakes not balls..!).

I’ve built some steep sketchy lines over winter, practice, practice, practice…

Just reread all that. Steep & straight I’m ok with,what about steep, wet & bendy?

Answers in the morning will be ok, I’m off to bed to dream of dusty trails 🙂

That’s the problem then, you’ve built the line and looked at it and already decided it’s going to be tricky.
If you’d never seen it before and just followed someone into the section you’d ride it no bother. Probably.

Just reread all that. Steep & straight I’m ok with,what about steep, wet & bendy?

Speed management, if you are riding steep & wet a lot then a grippier front might allow you to control braking more and cornering. But just like car braking and turning is not the best combination.

I’m finding pulsing the front really helps because before you would have reacted to it locking and sliding it’s unlocked, rolling and gripping again.

Steep Wet and Bendy? I don’t know! but I know a man who does 🙂

[video]http://vimeo.com/85271426[/video]

Rockplough – Member

SLX M666 have great modulation if set up right. If they’re too grabby it’s your finger not the brake.

Do what?
Shimano brakes are well grabby! 🙂

SLX M666 have great modulation if set up right. If they’re too grabby it’s your finger not the brake.

ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON-OFF

Yet to find that modulation on my XT’s (there must be a switch I’m missing)

Watching Joe Barnes is no help, he is going 100 times faster than me and doesn’t appear to use brakes

My real problem is my need to ride a line slowly the first few times. This doesn’t help on lines like these or gaps

How long are these steep lines? How slow can you enter them? There is stuff that I will enter at sub walking pace, almost track standing.

Sorry.but it’s nothing to do with your brakes! And I don’t buy the tale that shimano are on or off…I have no problem applying tiny amounts of power with mine.

You need practice on steep stuff. Look further ahead, ride the lines a little faster, don’t position your body quite so far back.

My real problem is my need to ride a line slowly the first few times. This doesn’t help on lines like these or gaps

Instead of those first few slow runs through it, could you instead walk down it and have a close look from the top and bottom to the point where you’re happy about the line, then go for it at normal speed without braking? Or even walk your bike down it and see exactly how it’s going to roll down, then just go for it? If you agree that it should be slow in then ridden without brakes, then it’s only really the entry point and line you need to know I’d have thought.

try and keep your weight on your feet and head up, use your body to turn the bike more than trying to steer it. But every corner/rider is different, keep practicing a section till you find a good way down it.

tyres may help? and speed will pick up with practice 🙂

also be ready to jump off and grab a tree!

glasgowdan – Member

And I don’t buy the tale that shimano are on or off

What are you comparing them to?

Yep, you’ve all confirmed what I already thought. Pad up and practice..

Apparently Shimano modulation is supposed to be improved in recent models?

My 785 XT’s, my mates’ and also his Zees modulate well so long has you don’t grab a handful. The lever feel is different to my old Avids though and they need a softer touch the way I have mine set. They do lock more easily if provoked.

If you’re over fond of your brakes then reducing rotor is simply going to make them get hotter. I’m still working on getting fear braking out of my ride. I still find myself pulling the lever when I didn’t mean to sometimes. If tyres are fine and weight placement sorted etc, then wet and slippy shouldn’t be the end.

In skiing, this sort of thing is handled by loading and unloading the outer edges with your heels in an alternating fashion, thereby controlling speed while pointing straight Downhill so you have the control to turn out at the end. I think it would take epic riding skills to translate this to a bike though without it becoming a pump motion and actually accelerating you…

‘kinell mugboo

if you cant ride it then what hope have we got?

sbob – Member
glasgowdan – Member
And I don’t buy the tale that shimano are on or off
What are you comparing them to?

I’ve just gone from (working) Avids to Shimano, keeping the same rotors. Different characteristics, but still loads of modulation, including on teh steep gnar that was shredded at the weekend.

Sadly Tom, just because I’ve built it doesn’t mean I can ride it, if I can ride it first time it’s too easy..

I’m no expert but I’m pretty sure it has nothing to do with brakes. More likely is that you have your weight too far back which is making your front wheel too light and unbalancing the bike.

Once you start getting the fear, the brakes lock up and you end up trying to get away from the danger by hanging off the back of the bike, which is the opposite of what you want.

Try getting lower rather than having all your weight over the rear try not to lock up the brakes!

I reckon that’s right. Persuading my brain your right is the problem.

In fact I know it’s right cos Jedi told me

Still running hope mono m4s on my lakes bike*, got a mix of new and old shimano on others. Bags and bags of modulation and ultimately not as much power as the shimano brakes. Maybe not the best for really slamming on the anchors at high speed but for mincing down steeeep thrutchy stuff at uber slow speed (which is kinda my thing) they are just the ticket.

5 posts in, boom!!

well if it is bad technique then he may be have a point eh? We could suggest OP buys some new brakes instead, any better?

*does get ridden other places but mainly the lake district

OP has been on a skillz course or two and I’m a better rider for it but this stuff remains my nemesis. I’m fine with slow and thrutchy in the dry, poor once it gets proper slippy.

from logic and experience – if there is no grip then you cant slow down

its then just down to chucking your weight around to get some semblance of grip or slip – so tyres are more important than brakes

imoh anyway…not that I’m one to talk

Go for a smaller rotor, it helped me as I was the same with my 200mm. Easier to lock the front wheel so you push your weight further back rather than having the confidence some may assume a 200mm rotor would bring. A 180mm rotor and I still have plenty of power but less likely to lock it up and therefore find myself more confident over the front. It is still fundamentally a skill issue, a point of which I am only too aware, but I don’t think a massive rotor helps matters.