Friends of The Hurtwood. « Singletrack Forum

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Friends of The Hurtwood.

150 posts & 43 voices | Started 11 months ago by Trouty65 | Latest reply from teamhurtmore

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fatlad - Member

Rarely post here, but feel the need now.
Ridden there for the last 5 years, stopped last summer. The place is full of total morons (on all sides to keep things in perspective).

Such a shame, during the week its a gorgeous place to ride but CBA with the hassle of middle management mountain bikers who have blown their bonus on a full face lid and something with 180mm travel.

So much more riding around surrey, no need to cause friction by hundreds of us descending on their every weekend.
Have witnessed so much ignorance from fellow MTB'ers there.

If you want real friction between groups, have a ride along SDW at weekend. The walkers are armed with poles!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4uZE_oIpRs

Posted 10 months ago #
Carlos45 - Member

Bump.

Just creased myself watching the YouTube link. Seen several versions before but none to do with mountain biking in Peaslake.

Posted 10 months ago #
dorkingtrailpixie - Member

Bump +1

Good work!

Posted 10 months ago #
rewski - Member

If you want real friction between groups, have a ride along SDW at weekend. The walkers are armed with poles!

I've been riding around Eastbourne end of SDW and Surrey Hills for years, all I've experienced is friendly walkers, runners, horse riders and bikers all enjoying the countryside. Use a bit of common sense, go when it's not too busy, during the week you'll have these places to yourself almost.

Chill out, slow down when it's not safe for others, go fast when it is safe for others, smile and say hello.

The place is full of total morons (on all sides to keep things in perspective).

That's not really keeping perspective is it? Life is too short for bike envy, there's always going to be someone with a better or more expensive bike than you.

Posted 10 months ago #
njee20 - Member

That's not really keeping perspective is it? Life is too short for bike envy, there's always going to be someone with a better or more expensive bike than you.

Huh? How's that bike envy? I assumed that to mean walkers/cyclists etc, rather than anything about bike value.

The number of people in Peaslake seems to have risen massively since Pedal & Spoke moved in, not a slur on the shop, I've found Howard very friendly and wish them the best of luck, but many of them certainly seem very devoid of grey matter. I've seen several people being proper pillocks, which is totally unnecessary IMO, I often have no desire to stop in Peaslake anymore, there's too many obnoxious idiots standing there instead of riding!

Posted 10 months ago #
rewski - Member

@ njee20 - I referring to the usual dig at
middle management mountain bikers who have blown their bonus on a full face lid and something with 180mm travel.

Why is everyone so bitter, cheer up.

Edit. ....rides off on his brand new lapierre zesty 714 with easton haven carbon bar, stem and rims .

Posted 10 months ago #
scott_mcavennie2 - Member

If it wasnt for the pork & leek slices I'd happily avoid stopping at peaslake in summer.

Driving through the village after riding on the Saturday before last, I noticed that the big car park was still half empty yet, the area around Pedal & Spoke was jammed full of parked cars and people on bikes blocking what little of the road was left.

What is the attraction of parking near that shop??

Posted 10 months ago #
teamhurtmore - Member

Fatlad - I can understand the sentiments if not the specific jibes. I am unlucky (lost my job) and lucky (can ride there during the week!) and actually amazed at how quiet the place is during the week. I have little desire to add to the weekend hoards though. The only problem with being there during the week is that it is hard to find others for advice on trails - hence the posts here that seem to annoy some!! Out of interest, where else in Surrey would you recommend for similar singletrack kind of stuff?

Another question - of the local guiding/instructor groups who has the best reputation/following?

Scott - 'tis strange that folk can't use the car parks?!?!?

Posted 10 months ago #
xcgb - Member

I attended a Peaslake community council meeting last night as we had heard that there was going to be a motion put forward to extend the old no vehicles covenant that was put on in the 1920s to include bikes!

Thankfully this didn't happen but there will be signs up soon asking people to use the car parks (walking bottom is currently being improved to take more cars)

Apart from the usual suspects being anti bike i was bouyed to hear some non biking people stating how they thought the village centre was more vibrant with the bikers than without! Not something I was expecting

Posted 10 months ago #
dorkingtrailpixie - Member

Another question - of the local guiding/instructor groups who has the best reputation/following?

I haven't used any of the local guiding companies but this throws up a question... Wouldn't it be the case that if you were an 'official' guide, you'd need to obey local access agreements and therefore not ride cheeky trails? Surely as a professional you'd have to keep to sanctioned trails, bridleways etc and therefore by paying for a guided service, you wouldn't find the 'other stuff'. This is based on my knowledge of professional climbing guides who adhere to local access agreements etc.

Posted 10 months ago #
vd - Member

Richard (and Glen) at Allbikedup highly recommended. Have used them for a few years now and seem to be as good with newbies as with those wanting something a little more advanced. Still can't cure me of my ingrained bad habits - picking nose, wiping snot on gloves, etc. - though.

Posted 10 months ago #
glenp - Member

Wouldn't it be the case that if you were an 'official' guide, you'd need to obey local access agreements and therefore not ride cheeky trails?
Yep. There are actually quite a few miles of "legacy" trail on Holmbury Hill alone - plus we've got the extensive network on Pitch and beyond, not to mention Leith Hill. For years we have been working in a fully open way with the land owner and the ranger. Richard and I are both local born and bred (I was born in Friday Street (now live in Abinger Common), Richard is from Shere (now Holmbury St Mary)). We both also walk on the hills and are about as tuned-in to the issues with regard to courtesy, parking, trail damage and maintenance, and the local economy as anyone could be, I believe.

Thanks for the nice words, vd.

Posted 10 months ago #
rewski - Member

Out of interest, where else in Surrey would you recommend for similar singletrack kind of stuff?

Ranmore Common, Box Hill, North Downs Way from Box Hill to Woldingham is a great ride, around Woldingham is some great ST too, drop into Marden Park, Limpsfield Chart. Believe it or not there's some great riding south of Croydon if you know how to link up all the BP's and put in XC miles.

Posted 10 months ago #
dorkingtrailpixie - Member

glenp

Good to know - just from a moral point of view you understand.

Posted 10 months ago #
joolsburger - Member

As a middle manager with a 6 inch travel bike that I got for peanuts and dont really need, without a full face helmet, who does like pork and leek slices and is a friend of Hurtwood but doesn't wear pads but does know lots of the cheeky trails am I still allowed to park in Car park 9?

I'm really confused.

Posted 10 months ago #
glenp - Member

Ah, good points joolsburger. Just remember, it's a bit like:

If a middle manager rides in the woods and leaves no marks, does it matter?

Or the more traditional; if a tree falls in the forest and no-one is there, does it make a sound?

Or my preference; if a man speaks and no woman is there to hear him, is he still wrong?

Posted 10 months ago #
glenp - Member

Posted 10 months ago #
tyredbiker - Member

Sorry to wade in late- but I'm new to mtbing in the area, although have always been a walker.
From this topic it becomes clear that there are so many contentious issues affecting Peaslake and the rest of the Surrey Hills;

-land access
-biker membership of FotH
-the maintenance of trails/demolishing illegal trails
-the relationship between bikers and other land users
-the location of trails and whether it is okay to share them and give directions

By withholding information about trails it forces the many newbies there are to go out blind trying to find these allusive trails, and will undoubtedly stumble upon land that shouldn't be cycled on unknowingly and cause unnecessary aggro with other land users/owners.

I've found the easiest way is to go with eyes wide open and ask riders who look like they know where they are going, but is there really a difference between local riders giving people heads up in person to over the internet? As I'm certain I will have bumped into people who are on STW. Or is it just because it is on STW that people withhold directions as they can be seen by an very large, very active biking community which they are scared will descend upon their favourite trails or will reprimand them on the interweb?

All said and done it is ace to find track for yourself (although knowing whether its legal or not is still rather dubious)

Posted 10 months ago #
dorkingtrailpixie - Member

but is there really a difference between local riders giving people heads up in person to over the internet?
In principle no. However, local riders will tend to pass on information to local/frequent riders of the area in preference. Reason is that those who ride regularly, or are local, will tend to have a better understanding of which areas/trails are more contentious than others. They are therefore, perhaps, more likely to ride said trails with a more 'eyes wide open' attitude towards time of day, day of the week, numbers in the party etc.
Word tends to go around with further instructions such as "watch out as you exit, it's a blind left-hander", "there's a breeding pen in front of you so don't extend the trail", "there's a massive un-avoidable gap jump" etc, etc, etc. This has the effect of fore-warning others in advance on a first hand basis. Word does slowly get around and usually with those cautions in place.
If you broadcast it on t'internet, publish GPS routes etc, there's a better than average chance of big groups heading down trails not knowing what's coming, where the dangers are and where to stop (not to mention when to keep quiet!).
I don't think it's elitist, most trails that started as 'secret' don't end up that way for long - just that those with a reputation tend to have their reputation circulated in advance (if that makes sense!).

Posted 10 months ago #
t_i_m - Member

By withholding information about trails it forces the many newbies there are to go out blind trying to find these allusive trails, and will undoubtedly stumble upon land that shouldn't be cycled on unknowingly and cause unnecessary aggro with other land users/owners

What dorkingtrailpixie said + 1

And it's not exactly hard to read a map and work out what is permitted. As a rule, what isn't permitted will either be fenced off or have some logs blocking the start of the trail.

The more that gets posted on line, the more that the area is perceived as a trail centre, which will cause even more problems.

Posted 10 months ago #
teamhurtmore - Member

t_i_m, how do you interpret this part of the Hurtwood code of conduct:

"Riders must not create new trails, please use the existing network." - does that mean forest trails and sanctioned trails eg Parklife, Barry's etc only? What constitutes creating a trail - having a shovel in your pack or merely following someone else's new trail in the woods? I don't know and I think this is what lies behind tyredbiker and my comments and questions. Its not a case of reading a map and knowing the boundaries eg Winterfold and Hurtwood (we can do that) - we are merely asking for advice to ensure that we do not create any problems for all.

I would have thought that a mtb forum would be the perfect place to ask such questions (the readership is not THAT wide, surely) but there "seems" to be a tendency to knock genuine requests and hide behind a "need to know" veil of secrecy. All a bit bizarre really?

Posted 10 months ago #
joolsburger - Member

If you tally it up there are around 15 odd sanctioned and legacy trails on Leith, Pitch and Holmbury alone. Add to that the little diverts and links and all the jumpy, droppy bits and there should be enough riding for most. Still it is a crying shame that some of the cheeky but excellent trails at Winterfold and most sadly that trail on Holmbury that was beautifully made and absolutely great to ride were put out of use. It would be brilliant if through some kind of process and with the landowners consent a few more long, well made and sustainable trails could be created to take pressure off the exisiting network and also to keep bikes away from other users of the hills. It seems that discussion is not taking place and I'd be interested in knowing how it could be instigated?

Posted 10 months ago #
winterfold - Member

Joolsburger - someone was trying to get something going a few months ago, but it all seems to have gone quiet. Maybe Mark (not Ranger Mark) could post a few words and let people know what is going on?

tyredbiker - perception is everything, posting about 'new' trails on Interwebs and using four different names for the same trail all creates a perception of more MTB among people who keep an eye on these forums who are not bikers.

Just for the avoidance of doubt, there are a vociferous group of Peaslake residents for whom:

MORE TRAILS = MORE MTB = END OF PEASLAKE AS THEY KNOW IT

Hurtwood want to keep these people sweet, or at least minimise their reasons for moaning, so it is in our interests to make the sensible amount of noise, rather than lots of it.

If you have even two or three braincells it really is very easy to find trails, work out boundaries, by looking on maps, asking people, PMing them and so on. I am happy to help people avoid trespass if they PM, but noone ever seems to bother taking the offer up.

Another way that people can help with this perception problem is, if it is possible to avoid riding at weekends. Or at least not park in the centre of the village and mince about at the bus stop.

Does anyone know why the Peaslake Hitler vid was taken down the first time it was put up?

(Dangerously close to Godwin's law there so I'm out, scratched record by now anyway)

Posted 10 months ago #
teamhurtmore - Member

Winterfold - I am guilty of not following up on from your PM offer. Does this work via STW or should we use direct email?

I was also wondering about the vid and why it had been pulled. Seemed quite well done and on the button and as long as people have a GSOH should have been taken in the correct spirit - but you never know.

Might be tempted with a quick spin up there myself this pm, now that the sun is out!!

Posted 10 months ago #
glenp - Member

Think you'll find the Hitler vid will have been taken down because of infringement of copyright - nothing to do with the subject!

Posted 10 months ago #
t_i_m - Member

how do you interpret this part of the Hurtwood code of conduct

Sensibly. Ride legacy trails, esp with groups. Ride unofficial, established trails by myself or with smaller groups. Take care not to rag any of the trails. Investigate interesting looking trails that are sustainable and not obviously going to p1ss people off. As a general rule - never leave any evidence that i've ridden there (inc skids, braking bumps, cutting new lines etc)
Dont build anything new as there is already plenty there.

Publishing a map is only ever going to compound the problem as it'll increase traffic to unofficial trails and make them seem more official. And I think that you'd be surprised by the number of people asking for a trail centre style map of the area.

Just go exploring, find stuff and ride it. Not hard, esp if you live in the area.

I'm genuinely struggling to understand why this is causing so much confusion. I'm getting the feeling that you're already a considerate rider, who isn't really causing any problems. Except for posting up directions to tails

Posted 10 months ago #
theotherjonv - Member

May have unwittingly 'strayed' from the path in Winterfold on tuesday with a few friends on a social day out.

Took a well used and well known trail to exit on a forestry path. Climb briefly on this fireraod and turn in again and the bottom was all closed off with brush. At which point a man in a big logging tractor hares up and tells us we shouldn't be there.

Looking at the map carefully now, it looks like the fireroad at the end of section 1 is the boundary, correct? So do I have to avoid section 2, and there used to be a section 3 that is blocked at both ends.

There also used to be a difficult (to me) switchback section near there, also blocked. All out of bounds now?

Lastly, what's the score on forestry roads in Winterfold, can we use these or only official RoW?

Man on tractor was fierce but perfectly pleasant btw, siad it wasn't his land but as he was working for the landowner he'd been asked to police the area as part of his worjk for any miscreants and point out where they can go.

Posted 10 months ago #
winterfold - Member

yep those are off Hurtwood land and shouldnt be ridden you very bad boys :wink:, the switchbacks one has been made unrideable in any case

might be worth editing a bit of the detail out that post, just a suggestion

Posted 10 months ago #
winterfold - Member

glenp - Member

Think you'll find the Hitler vid will have been taken down because of infringement of copyright - nothing to do with the subject!

That's what I assumed - but surely a link is not a copyright infringement? And while I respect STW's desire to protect other's copyright - I fail to see the difference between that 'homage' and 'Sleepless in the Saddle' well except the Hitler/hurtwood video is actually funny...

Posted 10 months ago #
t_i_m - Member

theotherjonv - c'mon, this isn't difficult. You clearly know which trails are on the private/logging land owners area. So officially, you shouldn't be riding them. And you shouldn't be overly surprised if these trails get blocked off, which they regulary do. BTW, they've been actively logging in the area you're talking about, so prob more keen than normal to make sure that people dont turn up there unexpectedly.

Posted 10 months ago #
skaifan - Member

How about installing donation boxes at the start of these legacy trails, explaining that you are entering a legacy trail, and any donation will be put towards maintaining it. It would then become apparent that any trail without a donations box is not part of the sanctioned trail network, and should be avoided/ reported/ ridden at riders discretion. That way, we could be seen to be making a contribution beyond joining the foth.
People should also use the car parks. I cycled through peaslake at 8.30 last night and there were vehicles parked by the memorial, yet the free car parks both within 30 seconds drive had plenty of space.

Posted 10 months ago #
theotherjonv - Member

t-i-m; It's a genuine question, the point is that i don't. I don't read the maps (I should) and I'm not that familiar with the distinctions between Hurtwood and Winterfold access priveleges, hence I'm asking.

I've 'found' these trails by exploration or by riding with other people who've shown them to me. No-one has said they are / are not legit. Last time I rode them a few weeks back they were open from top to bottom. Now the top is open at both ends, the middle is open at the top and blocked at the bottom, the last bit is totally blocked. The switchback trail was open 8 weeks ago, now is totally out of action.

If they are on private land i won't ride them, don't want to be doing anything to antagonise the landowner. Hence the questions about whether the fireroad between S1 and S2 is the boundary, and if it is I'll keep riding S1 but drop S2 from the repertoire. But by doing that I end on a fireroad which appears to be the boundary but is not marked as a RoW, so can i use this to get to the next RoW / road

Posted 10 months ago #
winterfold - Member

"don't want to be doing anything to antagonise the landowner."

I wouldn't worry about that. He will concrete over half of Surrey and fly in 300 747s a day given half a chance. If you are local then a fair chunk of your parish council stipend will be spent in clerk's time writing objections to his hair-brained schemes.

Antagonising him is your civic duty.

Just remember - careless talk costs trails.

Posted 10 months ago #
Carlos45 - Member

My understanding is the boundary is between Section 1 and Section 2.

Posted 10 months ago #
theotherjonv - Member

careless talk costs trails.

I've edited right back to keep sense but lose any location. It might be obvious to you but you couldn't find the trails in question from description. In fact - starts on a fireraod and ends on another one is about as unspecific as you could ever get

Who is the landowner (I know, JFGI)

Posted 10 months ago #