Hi all,
Just wondering if anyone could give me some information regarding mountain bikers joining the Hurtwood trust ?

From my understanding i can join for £25 a year ? I am willing to do this but would like find out a little more information on the current state of play and how this would benefit myself and the trust?

After another great ride tonight we discovered another fairly new trail over towards Winterfold which has had the bottom section completely trashed ! just beyond belief ?

The guys who have made this/these trails must have put an immense amount of effort into making it and i really cannot see what harm it is actually doing to anyone ??? it was very well hidden and not causing any damage at all.

Why the need to trash it?

I am completely for joining the trust, and paying my way to make/keep sustainable trails going and not being closed down,but how would or does this system work?

If anyone can shed any light on this it would be much appreciated.

regards

Paul

Friends of Hurtwood

Everything you need to know is here.

I’ve been a member for a few years, for a few reasons:
1. They support mountain biking
2. In supporting biking they give it legitimacy amongst those who don’t want us to ride there – even though the landowners are happy
3. They help to bring the different user groups together to deal with usage issues
4. They organise maintenance days which a) keep the trails in good nick and b) give us the opportunity to give something back

Well worth your £25 IMO. And their work is sorely needed now there’s so many people riding up there

Thanks i shall be joining. Can you tell me if they have meetings where all can attend or do the mtbikers have a representative only who attends ?
I cannot believe that this is not more publicly advertised especially with the amount of mountain bikers using the area in the last few years.

thanks

Paul

Very little evidence of trail maintenance when I rode up there at the weekend. Thanks to the recent forestry work BKB (among other trails) is trashed and will probably be unrideable in the winter. As a result I feel no incentive to hand over money when I don’t feel my interests are being represented.

Before it’s raised, I have offered my services on dig days but have been told that there were insufficient experienced people to supervise.

Little wonder that people are building new trails really

Hurtwood could really use the support – they are short of money at the moment. It’s a good thing to do anyway – for the maintenance of the whole area. It isn’t the case though that mtb trail work is proportionate to the number of mtb members. The funds are used for everything.

Bear in mind that mtb trails are nothing without the context they are in – the conservation of the whole area is far more important than individual tracks.

I’ve been a friend for a couple of years now. Am not too sure what I get from my contribution – but the way I see it is that £25 is a small price to pay for the great mtbing in that area. If there were more mtb members then they would then have more funds for trail repairs etc.

I was a friend but havent renewed as i am appalled the way they have allowed the logging to be carried out.

they have trashed bridleways, caused huge damage in areas that they had closed trails in due to mtbs causing erosion!

maybe this is partly why they are short of support!

the logging has bene done mainly to fund the development of High house farm in Shere, I have no Idea where the friends money is used, But i do know they paid a local chap £350 to put a new trail out of use using heavy digging equipment, so they have the money for that!

OP Winterfold isn’t part of the Hurtwood any way AFAIK

Correct, Jim McAllister owns most of Winterfold, so you can look to him when trails up there get trashed.

I’ve been a friend for a couple of years now. Am not too sure what I get from my contribution – but the way I see it is that £25 is a small price to pay for the great mtbing in that area. If there were more mtb members then they would then have more funds for trail repairs etc.

+1
Joining and giving them the chance maintain/improve the area has to be better than doing nothing except whining about it. And £25 is nothing compared to the amount of entertainment regular users of the area get.

I’m a member but wont be renewing. I can’t see anything positive they’ve done for Mtb’ing in the area at all?? New trails have been trashed (creating a lot of damage considering its a conservation area) and existing ones ruined by logging. It all seems to be managed a lot better at Swinley with Gorrick/Crown estate by comparison.

oh and the amount of logging on winterfold is thoroughly depressing.

Some of the trails have gotten so wide (e.g. BKB) that they could do with being closd for a bit.
As long as there is a decent attitude towards building/resurrecting trails after logging, then I’ll remain a member.

T_I_M but i really dont want my money used to pay someone to destroy a trail that was really out of the way and not near anywhere walkers or horse riders use

We also rode that newly wreaked trail last night it’s only the bottom section at the moment.
No doubt by the weekend it might well be gone.
I ride all over West Surrey and I have plenty of other flowing singletrack to ride away from the hordes.
Over the years these trails are getting shut down and ridden to death more will appear and I will find other bits to ride.

I was a member now I have the same views as the previous posters

which trail is it anyway? the switchback trail that has been cleared and blocked a few times?

Can anyone who has the knowledge explain about the damage to authorised trails and what’s going on with it? Logging has at the very least severely altered the nature of the trails and if they’re not already ruined, most will suffer really badly when the weather turns. I don’t know if the Friends can even fix them but I’ve wondered for a while what sort of talks have gone on over the mess that’s been made.

The woods don’t exist solely for trails. Forestry work is a vital part of what happens there. The various organised groups do a great job of balancing the needs of all users.

but I’ve wondered for a while what sort of talks have gone on over the mess that’s been made.

+1 I cant see the horse riders are too happy either, but as i’m no longer a friend i cant access the forum

CF yes i think people get that, its not the logging its the way its being done, I think they have just given the contract to a logging outfit that is just blitzing in, other areas locally have had logging done without so much destruction.

We are also seeing more deer locally as they are being forced out by a landowner that claims to be leaving the area for air and exercise for all

Unfortunately I can’t see the landowners caring one iota about the damage logging causes to trails as they get no income from the trails.

As has been done in my local riding spot, the only way to preserve the trails in the long term is to form an official club and formally lease the land off the land-owners, which I seriously can’t see happening.

I do believe something really needs to be done in this area, even if it involves the creation of a contained “bike-park”, otherwise this will go on and on.

Ultimately, you need to give the land-owners an incentive to allow riders to use their land, otherwise why should they even care?

All those who say “but I don’t want a bike park, I want to ride natural trails” are fooling themselves, as you can’t have it both ways: You either get use to the trails being trashed on a yearly basis, or you create an area of “untouchable” land and put in a proper regime of sustainable trail building and trail maintenance, possibly under the stewardship of the CTC/Forestry Commission etc.

mikey – annual logging? How fast do trees grow in your local area.

Anyway, as has been said, the big thing here is not that they ARE logging but how the logging impacts the trails. Over on Winterfold they’ve trashed some trails which were unofficial during logging and nobody is surprised. The damage though is at about the same level to that done to some of the sanctioned trails elsewhere so it’s clear that keeping riders to official trails isn’t of interest.

mikey – annual logging? How fast do trees grow in your local area.

Different trails in different parts of the forest that are logged on a rotation.

Anyway, I didn’t say it was always caused by logging.

Mikey they should care becaause they have set themselves up as more than just a landowner, they quote the ethos of the area being historically left to the public for air and excercise, and the area counts as access land for walking these days so they cant fence it off either

double post fail

Different trails in different parts of the forest that are logged on a rotation.

Thats how i always thought it should be done! theres no evidence of replanting yet though

Please don’t tell me it’s the winterfold trail with the big initial berm and then a bombhole that’s been trashed?

It does seem sad that the trails get broken up but it’s their land so there it is.

Jools – it is, although its still passable, but not as flowing at the end. Top section was aok last time I saw it, albeit getting a bit worn through increased traffic.

I thought I might be opening a can of worms posting in opposition to the Friends, but I’m pleased to see I’m not alone!

It does seem sad that the trails get broken up but it’s their land so there it is.

Exactly.

Mikey they should care becaause they have set themselves up as more than just a landowner, they quote the ethos of the area being historically left to the public for air and excercise, and the area counts as access land for walking these days so they cant fence it off either

But surely you can get the “air and exercise” on a bike by just using the bridleway system. You don’t need berms, jumps, bombholes, drop-off etc for that.

The trouble is that the current situation does not allow for any kind of progression in the sport, which is why you find people building their own sneaky lines.

I don’t get it.

That trail was well concealed at both ends has an ending that means you have to pretty much stop before hitting the bridleway and was nicely tucked away out of sight. It just seems a bit old gittish to destroy it as it really wasn’t harmful.

The trouble is that the current situation does not allow for any kind of progression in the sport, which is why you find people building their own sneaky lines.

unfortunately they have now created large open areas that are very tempting to put a trail through!

I don’t get it.

It just seems a bit old gittish

you havent experienced Jim Mcallister have you!

You’d think he have the sense to build some trails, charge a fee and earn off it. I’d pay £50 a year to ride good trails over there.

You’d think he have the sense to build some trails, charge a fee and earn off it. I’d pay £50 a year to ride good trails over there.

One word: Insurance!!

If it was done properly and through the CTC, then insurance would be covered, as long as you paid the yearly fee. They could even put it on the same membership as Rogate, Tilgate and Aston Hill, so you only paid £70/year approx. and could ride all three.

shame, good trail that one. someoene will clear it though. Apparently it was built by the MBR boys so the rumour goes.

http://youtu.be/BiGXrwlKdAA

Let’s say 250 riders paying £50 a year each, money for old rope I’d say not a fortune but plenty considering you’d have to do literally nothing for the money.

Can anyone who has the knowledge explain about the damage to authorised trails and what’s going on with it? Logging has at the very least severely altered the nature of the trails and if they’re not already ruined, most will suffer really badly when the weather turns. I don’t know if the Friends can even fix them but I’ve wondered for a while what sort of talks have gone on over the mess that’s been made.

While I’m not in a position to speak about the machinations of the land owners and FOTH, there are differences in opinion about the use of mountain bike trails on Hurtwood land. Not from the landowners themselves or from FOTH personnel however.

BKB was always going to be a difficult trail to protect and the Forestry personnel did a reasonable job, an improvement over what happened to reservoir dogs last year. You will also note that no tree thinning happened close to the new ending of BKB, that’s because it was Surreyhills AONB money that was used to build it and they wouldn’t have been too happy if that part of the trail got damaged. So it got left alone.

We are also seeing more deer locally as they are being forced out by a landowner that claims to be leaving the area for air and exercise for all

On the contrary, once you start thinning out the forestry this gives more sunlight access to the forest floor and as a result more undergrowth will grow, resulting in an increase in the numbers of deer feeding on it. You are seeing more deer because of the increase of food.

It all seems to be managed a lot better at Swinley with Gorrick/Crown estate by comparison.

Swinley is partially paid for by having the lookout(Bracknell council)/go ape type stuff on crown land. Other money comes from the permit money that Mountain bikers should pay when they use the land, this covers insurance and Trail maintenance costs I’m led to believe.

Thats how i always thought it should be done! theres no evidence of replanting yet though

Replanting only happens a few years after the trees are cleared. Some of the areas that are now de-forested will stay that way.

oh and the amount of logging on winterfold is thoroughly depressing.

Only the top of Winterfold is looked after by FOTH. What the landowner does in his part of the woods is up to him.

Some of the trails have gotten so wide (e.g. BKB) that they could do with being closd for a bit.
As long as there is a decent attitude towards building/resurrecting trails after logging, then I’ll remain a member.

There is a decent attitude from FOTH, now I know some will point out the recent closure of a trail on Holmbury hill, but FOTH has stated that no new trails are allowed to be built. The hills are for all users, not a free for all for mountain bikers.

With regards to whether you become/stop being a member, the money you pay will be used to fund the upkeep of the land for all users.

Definitely won’t be getting my money.

I have debated it long and hard. I have spoken at length to representatives of the FOTH, fundraisers etc asking how they spent their annual budget, what their priorities are etc. and in conclusion I see no positives at all.

They take your money and spend it on making the trails ‘safe’, on trail and car park maintenance, and on managing the area e.g. removing the Rhododendrons.

So far as making trails ‘safe’ you can take that to mean boring.

The amount of trail maintenance they do is neglible to the point of being invisible.

Yet they are very good at ripping out the Rhododendrons, which unfortunateley I rather liked, as did the majority of people I know.

They also are proud of having returned the area surrounding the summit of Holmbury Hill to ‘ancient heathland’ by chopping down all the trees in that area a few years ago… it was a shameful, ecological disaster . And for what purpose? The area was much nicer with the trees and as for ‘ancient heathland’, well ancient as of when exactly? Take any area of the the UK, go far enough back in time and you’ll find it was probably forested.

The FOTH is very good at destroying many of the trails that are fun/using diggers to put them beyond use.

OK, I understand that these are ‘new’ trails… but ALL the trails were ‘new’ at some point and were made by humans: walking, cycling or whatever.

I just don’t get what the beef is with the Hurtwood and why they feel they need to ‘control’ the area so negatively. It’s an area that the landowners themselves desired the public use for recreational activities.

What was clear from the discussions I had with representatives of FOTH was that the more money they raised the more of this they’d be able to do: more controls, more restrictions, more resources.

– Where would it end?

– Why do we need more control?

– Why should we pay FOTH to implement more restrictions?

Ask yourself this: If the FOTH went out of business due to lack of funds what would happen?

They will tell you that all the trails would shut and the car parks would be closed down.

Really?

I suggest things would continue as they do now. Do you think that all the walkers, runners, dog walkers, families, cyclists, horse riders, Duke of Edinburgh teenagers etc would stop using the area?

No.

Digger i must say i have to agree with your comments to a point. I believe the real problem with FOTH lies with the attitude of a minority of mountain bikers that are using the area.

I have seen it myself at Peaselake where some people get so excited and just simply cannot contain themselves that their language and behaviour on a Sunday morning must put some of the locals off taking a nice stroll to the shop with their children.

I have also heard from other riders that similar behaviour ie: A group coming haring off of Pitch and blasting through the car park with way too much speed and no regard for an elderly couple walking right in front of them.
One guy ran very close to the old lady and “Bunny hopped” right next to her !!
This sort of behaviour is really what i think the root of the problem is.
Have anyone ever been walking along and youve been buzzed by a cyclist at speed ? It’s not good and certainly not for anyone elderly.

This sort of behaviour is certainly hard to challenge and does our sport no favors at all.

As far as trail building is concerned i cannot believe the amount of effort people will go to and believe me its very much appreciated by people like myself who dont have the time to contribute but still get the pleasure of riding them, all i can say is a very big thanks.
I have heard that if the trail builders were only to have approached the “Ranger” before building then the one particular trail in question would possibly have been agreed and ok to complete the build and hence would never have been de-commisioned.

I would be interested to attend a FOTH AGM along with other like minded individuals to have a more in depth understanding of their commitments and policies.

From what i understand there are approximately 50 mountainbike members and around 500 walking members at the moment. If another 500 mountainbikers joined the FOTH surely that would be enough money to fund another full time ranger and maybe progress things more towards the right direction ?

Paul

From what i understand there are approximately 50 mountainbike members and around 500 walking members at the moment. If another 500 mountainbikers joined the FOTH surely that would be enough money to fund another full time ranger and maybe progress things more towards the right direction ?

It doesn’t work that way and it never will.

Can people pls look at a map and work out if a trashed trail is on the Hurtwood land before slagging off the Friends?

I am pretty sure the trail in the OP is on someone else’s land.

Let’s not get specific about the details though – just don’t feel any shame or guilt in riding on his land he will ruin Sussex and Surrey given half a chance.

Also don’t get hung up on forestry / logging/ erosion – the real issue is that Peaslake us completed overrun with bikers on weekends and significant numbers of residents are totally hacked off about it. I can’t say I blame them.

Peaslake does have a lot of bikers – but then those bikers do put quite a bit of money into that village – I wonder if that little shop they all find so convenient would still be open without the passing trade of cyclists all year round?