Viewing 37 posts - 161 through 197 (of 197 total)
  • Freemasons – what's it all about?
  • iDave
    Free Member

    Just read a load of info about the rituals and ‘scouts for grownups’ is a bit wide of the mark.

    I’d say if you embrace that kind of ritual for whatever reason you’re a bit of a sadsack in good need of a leg up the ladder of life.

    CharlieMungus
    Free Member

    So? influences and advantages are taken in all walks of life and in every situation, if you can use your club/mate/interests as an advantage then youd be a foolethical and honourable not too. Even if what you say is true.

    ransos
    Free Member

    Can you prove otherwise?
    So on that token, you are accusing Freemasonry of taking an ”im not rascist but..” stance? Feel free to jump to whatever conclusions you wish, its a free world. I happen to really like black Bob in my lodge.

    So you’d like me to prove a negative? Good one.

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    hilldodger
    Free Member

    it just seems a bit… infantile and pathetic. A bunch of blokes who feel the need to be take themselves too seriously

    Sounds very similar to most of the ‘regulars’ here then 😆

    CharlieMungus
    Free Member

    It’s why we all want to know how to join!

    simonralli2
    Free Member

    There is quite an interesting discussion to be had I feel in terms of indigenous initiatory experiences, which are designed to pass the initiate first through a “liminal” state of consciousness, often terrifying, in order to enable them to reach a greatly expanded state of consciousness and thus world view, and the initiations of both secret and not-so secret groups such as the Freemasons, Skulls and Bones, and army, university and other societies. I guess you could also throw in the initiations of occult magical groups as well, which are maybe a third form of initiation.

    I see these initiations as different. In some instances the initiation is more ritual, in order to instil in the initiate a sense of brotherhood, secrecy and elitism. In other instances, especially the indigenous, the experience takes one into such different realms of consciousness and being, that there is simply no point in trying to use language which is such an inadequate form of communication in trying to articulate that which is perhaps luminous, or far beyond words, duality, and time and space.

    There are many degrees of Freemasonary, and I am sure, secret groups within it too. Who knows ay?

    But yeah, I guess I thought it would be good to point out the many different forms of initiation, from drunken student tomfoolery, to ritual, to the sacred.

    I guess therefore some things are secret for different reasons, i) as people would not approve if these secrets were known, ii) because these secrets are “noble” and should not be made known to non-initiates who may not know how to handle the secrets, and iii) because there is no point in a non-initiate “knowing” as they simply can’t know in the same way that the initiate can.

    CharlieMungus
    Free Member

    In any secret society, I assume that there are secrets within, and of course there are many degrees of Freemasonary, and I am sure, secret groups within Freemasonary. Who knows ay?

    Fair point I guess, I suppose it’s like a few years ago when only a few of us were using the other Internet. These things can only stay a secret for so long, before they become mainstream.

    slimjim78
    Free Member

    I’d say if you embrace that kind of ritual for whatever reason you’re a bit of a sadsack in good need of a leg up the ladder of life.

    Thanks iDave.
    But you know next to nothing really. If you have an interest in history, in pomp and ceremony, amongst many other things, then youd find masonry remotely interesting. Without the ceremony there would be very little to distinguish it from a social club. Its great for improving your memory skills too.
    But what do I know, im just a sad sack who sits on a biking forum all day slating other people.

    So you’d like me to prove a negative? Good one.

    Not really Ransos, id rather you jogged on.

    So? influences and advantages are taken in all walks of life and in every situation, if you can use your club/mate/interests as an advantage then youd be a foolethical and honourable not too. Even if what you say is true.

    I agree CharlieMungus, I cringed whilst writing it originally – but none of us are whiter than white. I would bet a million dollars youve used/would use a similar situation to your advantage.

    I can see why its frowned upon as a society(honestly), but IMHO theree is nothing sinister or nothing wierder than a men’s club that gives folks something to do, and has a positive outcome.
    In all honesty I stopped actively taking part about 3 years ago as I felt id gone as far as I was interested in. Im still a country member and could enter again if I ever wanted to but I dont really think its for me in the long run. Why? Apart from feelign a teeny tiny bit daft, I just dont like the general public enough. Some of you are helping afirm this.

    I just thought some of you may be keen on an insiders point of view. Nay, you just prefer to critcise. Human nature in action (or just Britishness?).

    simonralli2
    Free Member

    I have re-edited my post as I do not think it too clear. I feel in a gentle way that it is slightly ironic to be told by a member of a secret society that they in fact know every secret. How do you know? It is a secret society and therefore every single member knows every secret? 🙂

    CharlieMungus
    Free Member

    I agree CharlieMungus, I cringed whilst writing it originally – but none of us are whiter than white. I would bet a million dollars youve used/would use a similar situation to your advantage.

    you owe me a million dollars

    ransos
    Free Member

    I just thought some of you may be keen on an insiders point of view.

    You haven’t really told us anything. Other than that you refer to a chap in your lodge by his skin colour.

    Stoatsbrother
    Free Member

    Another point which interests me is how many Masons assume that any scepticism or contempt one has for their beliefs (and a willingness to accept a deity of some sort is a core belief) must be based on jealousy and disinformation…

    slimjim78
    Free Member

    Simonralli2 – I think you hit a really good point, the feeling of belonging to a brotherhood is what drives most members onwards and upwards within thier lodge.
    The secrecy thing is like a badge of honour I guess (althogh most members I know treat the secrecy with a bit of tongue and cheek).

    I tell you something for nothing though, ive not struggled to find a plumber/electrician/chippy/architect/builder in the last few years.
    Job’s a goodun.

    CharlieMungus
    Free Member

    you owe me a million dollars

    Actually Slimjim, given that you are regular forum user seller, I’ll let you off.

    slimjim78
    Free Member

    You haven’t really told us anything. Other than that you refer to a chap in your lodge by his skin colour

    Oh boy, you really missed my sarcasm on that one then.
    Trust me, I wouldnt give you any names, for fear of having my throat cut and tongue cast into the sea.

    Another point which interests me is how many Masons assume that any scepticism or contempt one has for their beliefs (and a willingness to accept a deity of some sort is a core belief) must be based on jealousy and disinformation…

    a) I dont have ‘beliefs’ other than honouring what was asked of me during iniation. What beliefs are you refering to? I never actually admitted to a belief in a deity either..
    b) I never mentioned jealousy once, are you jealous? but there is a vast amount of disinformation being thrown around

    slimjim78
    Free Member

    you owe me a million dollars

    Actually Slimjim, given that you are regular forum user seller, I’ll let you off.

    whats your point? that im new to this forum? Do you usually treat new members with such contempt?
    How should I become initiated into this club? I wish to be just like you brethren.

    slimjim78
    Free Member

    You haven’t really told us anything. Other than that you refer to a chap in your lodge by his skin colour.

    I was thinking about this again, beacuse in fact, ive pretty much told you everything regarding the society.
    There really is not much more I can tell you (not even secrets). I could mention King Solomans temple and its pillars.
    There, better?

    brassneck
    Full Member

    sexist

    What’s wrong with being sexy?

    CharlieMungus
    Free Member

    whats your point? that im new to this forum? Do you usually treat new members with such contempt?
    How should I become initiated into this club? I wish to be just like you brethren

    It were a joke, see like I let you off cos you’re a forumite as well, when you were making the point about folks with things in common helping out and i was trying to say that I wouldn’t have any of it. But then i went and did it straight away, see? Funny now isn’t it?

    CharlieMungus
    Free Member

    Ultimately the problem is in the name. Nowadays, people are so wary of so many marketing scams and ‘winning’ lotteries and all that kind of stuff, that anything with free in the title immediately arouses suspicion.

    slimjim78
    Free Member

    ha! OK, I get it now, all is forgiven.
    Can we go for a ride now please…I dont wanna do this anymore…

    CharlieMungus
    Free Member

    Can we go for a ride now please…I dont wanna do this anymore.

    Sure thing, I’ll meet you by the you know what, you know when.

    ransos
    Free Member

    There really is not much more I can tell you (not even secrets).

    Well, they wouldn’t be secret if you did!

    IanMunro
    Free Member

    Yes – freemasonry is the second largest contributor to charities in the UK.

    Is there any sort of independently audited proof for this statement?
    I’m not disputing it, just slightly surprised, and a quick google of it just seems to bring up masonic sites repeating it rather than an independent source.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    Is there any sort of independently audited proof for this statement?

    I would appear that Freemasons give a lot of money to each other – much of the charitable donations are in fact for “the relief of poor and distressed brother masons”.

    Latest accounts lodged with the Charity Commission shows that nearly £65m was donated by masons for other masons who are in hardship, through four large masonic charities. No paying tax on that then.

    esselgruntfuttock
    Free Member

    would appear that Freemasons give a lot of money to each other – much of the charitable donations are in fact for “the relief of poor and distressed brother masons”.
    Well they gave me **** all when I went bust. After all that work I did learning the 2nd degree tracing board as well!

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    Well they gave me **** all when I went bust.

    Are you sure you’re a Freemason ?……maybe you joined the wrong secret organisation ?

    I suppose things can get a bit confused when it’s all hush-hush.

    yunki
    Free Member
    amodicumofgnar
    Full Member

    It also does indeed serve as a gathering/social place for our OAP’s – keeping them in conversation and giving them something to do – hardly anything wrong with that?

    Nobody has ever invited me in but I regard free mansoning with the same deep suspicion as free riding. Its the funny clothes thing.

    esselgruntfuttock
    Free Member

    Are you sure you’re a Freemason ?……maybe you joined the wrong secret organisation ?

    I am 100% sure I’m an EX freemason, as i purported in an earlier reply.
    Try & keep up if you can Ernie.

    niallmb
    Free Member

    In 2001 I was part of a TV crew that shot a documentary on freemasonary. My initial thoughts on it were that the rituals and the secrecy were just there to make the members feel important.

    After 4 weeks filming, during the editing process, we suddenly get solicitors letters from the lodge we were dealing with (who had been very cooperative throughout), withdrawing all consent on the footage being broadcast and threatening legal action if we showed anyone any of the footage. The original agreement was that they would have a private viewing once the edit was complete and that they would have opportunity to raise any concerns at that point.

    Either – They are a bunch of blanks who are so far up their own blanks that they thought behaving like blanks would make them look important. If this is the case then they can add wasting tens of thousands of pounds worth of a production companies money to their charitable activities.

    or – They genuinely have something to hide.

    Bottom line is, if its just an enjoyment of the exclusivity then why hide behind rumours and cryptic responses to questions. Most people who enjoy doing something exclusive or niche enjoy telling you all about it.

    All probably incorrect or not researched enough but that’s my experience.

    p.s. I re-watched that footage so many times during the few weeks after the letter trying to work out what they were trying to hide.

    GlitterGary
    Free Member

    niallmb – post the footage on the interweb for all to see?

    I bet those Grand Wizards have something to hide. Perhaps they’re all into this kind of thing:

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    Try & keep up if you can Ernie.

    Well I’m trying my best honestly. So you’re an EX Freemason, but are 100% sure it was the Freemasons that you joined ? After all they didn’t give you any of the £65 million stash that they keep for “the relief of poor and distressed brother masons”.

    Just a quick question when you joined, did they ask you to repeat : “On my honour, I promise that I will do my best to do my duty to God and to the Queen, to help other people, and to keep the Scout Law” ?

    slimjim78
    Free Member

    Oh dear..
    I imagine someone higher up the pecking order got work of the documentary and made them pull the plug.
    I would bet my mortgage on them not hiding anything that isnt already available elsewhere.
    Yes – I imagine a lot of the bravado is a power trip – silly old buggers.
    Not too dissimilar to most policemen I meet…

    esselgruntfuttock
    Free Member

    Just a quick question when you joined, did they ask you to repeat : “On my honour, I promise that I will do my best to do my duty to God and to the Queen, to help other people, and to keep the Scout Law” ?

    No, but why would they? That sounds more like what they’d ask if you were joining the scouts. Were you in the scouts?

    Peyote
    Free Member

    I imagine someone higher up the pecking order got work of the documentary and made them pull the plug.

    Maybe even the Great Architect themself…

    Douglas Adams opinions on divinity and faith prove this. If you give all the secrets away, there’s no need for faith in Freemasonry, ergo no need for a supreme being so they’d all disappear in a puff of logic!

    slimjim78
    Free Member

    i like that

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