I wonder whether anyone could give me any advice regarding image rights to my work.

Basically I am a freelance 3D Artist, and have been for a number of years. However towards the back end of (Oct) 2013. I was approached by someone to create some designs for them, my contact details were passed onto them/him by a good client that I had done lots of work for without problem. Anyway the new client got me to do some work for them which was essentially take an existing car and add modifications to it, sort of like a body kit, I did a few of these modifications to basically show what I could do, but stopped working on it until I received a deposit (which has never come.)
The original car model my existing model and all the information I received were images of different parts of cars (bumpers, exhausts etc) found on the web and I then merged them together to model a new car and render the image out so all my own work.
This was all done over the phone as the guy was based in Australia, I never signed any contract or anything.

Anyway a few phone calls followed promising the money that never came, and eventually it fizzled out. Until just before Christmas this year. I had a few spare weeks so decided to update my website, came across the images of the cars that I had created and decided to put them on my portfolio website/facebook page. A couple of days later I got a really angry phone call from him(effing and Blinding) telling me that I was gonna get sued and taken to court for releasing the images. I told him that as he hadn’t paid for them they were my work so I owned the rights to do what I wanted. He didn’t agree stating that they were his ideas. In the end I agreed to take them down and give him 30 days to pay or else they would be put back up.

Anyway he has just emailed me saying that he will not pay for them as they are unfinished, (which he knew originally thats why I wanted a deposit to carry on). And until they are finished he will not pay(I don’t think he will anyway). And that if the images are released quote “I will sue ur arse and corporately you will regret it”

My question is do I have the right to do what I want with the images? Or does he own the right without even paying for them?

So you found stuff on the web (of which you have no Copyright), comp it together and say it’s yours?

I’d say you are both as bad as each other but he cannot possibly claim they are his if he hasn’t paid anything.

Sounds like he’s being a fanny and you can do what you like with them. Although is there a chance he could make enough of a stink to lose you other potential work? If there is it might be beneficial for you to just keep the images offline and move on.

No contract, no ownership – surely?

I am, of course, not a lawyer.

Get EVERYTHING in writing.

So you found stuff on the web (of which you have no Copyright), comp it together and say it’s yours?

More that the other guy can’t say it’s his?

No Contract had been entered into, no confidentiality clauses signed, no money changed hands.
Presumably you have the email trail as well ?

Tell him to do one and publish them as your work

Where’s his contract with you?
Where’s his copyrite?
Did you give these images to him as a gift?
Tell him he’s welcome to them once you receive the originally agreed cost.
Otherwise tell him to **** off.

Do you know how much it costs to sue someone for breach of copyright? And how difficult it is in what started as a murky grey area anyway, which sounds even murkier here?

He hasn’t paid for them, so the copyright remains with you. Simple as that. Tell him to **** off and chalk it down to experience.

@johndoh no not like that, I understand what your saying though and the way it has perhaps come across.

For instance I would be modelling a part of the car say the exhaust area, he would send me a picture of an exhaust he liked, or types of exhaust he liked. I would then model in 3D something to fit into the car based from the images he sent to me. The images are never used and everything I have done was created from scratch.

Tell him to rack off, or you will dob him in to The Freak.

Make a new one that’s similar but not one you did for him. That’ll really piss him off!!

You have played it spot on.

Don’t lose any sleep over a penniless timewaster.

Binners +1

No consideration (i.e. payment) therefore no contract.

Next time he calls, tell him not to call again because now that the matter is in the hands of your lawyers you would prefer to have a written record of all communications.

Unless he proposes to either

a) use your work/version fo someone elses work without paying you

or

b) use your work/version fo someone elses work and pay you

the images and copyright are not his.

Suggest to him if he chooses option b) you’ll take them down and that if he goes with a) then why would you take the images down?

He’s basically bluffing.

So you found stuff on the web (of which you have no Copyright), comp it together and say it’s yours?

Bit strong, sounds more like a 3d render was created using flat images as a starting point for the design. No different to painting a picture based on a found photograph. Already cleared up by OP.

As above, you retain copywrite until artwork is signed over to a client either on payment or as a good will gesture. No contract, no payment, not your problem. It’s not like you’ve passed it on to a competitor, it’s a portfolio piece – I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it.

Do you know how much it costs to sue someone for breach of copyright? abroad?

If he’s in Oz your really don’t need to worry about this, I’ve seen £20k debts get written off for companies elsewhere in the EU, from Oz it would have to be much much bigger to be worth doing.

stealth promotion of his site? how many have now visited the op’s website? 🙄

Cheers guys this is what I thought. I gave him some sample images that were watermarked to prove what I could do, I only made a few of the changes and stopped until I had received the deposit as I could see where it was heading.

The latest email says he will not pay until all the changes are made.

I probably wont use the work anyway and just write it off just in case but I just wanted to know.

Make a new one that’s similar but not one you did for him. That’ll really piss him off!!

The phone call would be entertaining to listen to if I changed the colour of the car and put them up!

stealth promotion of his site? how many have now visited the op’s website?

I have and now I feel dirty and used. 😆

@bruneep I have never mentioned my website but feel free.

As above, you retain copywrite until artwork is signed over to a client either on payment or as a good will gesture. No contract, no payment, not your problem.

Could the good will gesture be seen as the example watermarked images that I supplied to him?

I didn’t realise my site was in my profile.
Just realised that makes it even worse! I’ll be quiet now.

he hasn’t got a leg to stand on. put the work on your site and tell him to sue away.

I think your response to him would benefit from the use of pie charts, and possibly spiders.

plus a reference to Arkell V Pressdram.

I’d put it up just to annoy him. Maybe even do a bit more work on it so that it’s better than the ones he has.

🙂

Yes, it did remind me of the same thing!

post it up here, gi’s a look

They’re yours until paid.

However why you came here to ask this question I don’t know – there are literally whole websites dedicated to helping creatives who freelance and get stuck with a shit client.

And then there is a bunch on Reddit, etc…

Anyway:

http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/protect/p15_design_rights

Who owns the design right?
Typically the creator of the design owns any rights in it, except where the work was commissioned or created during the course of employment, in which case the rights belong to the employer or party that commissioned the work.

In this case, as you hadn’t received any money (or deposit) you haven’t been commissioned. Its the same as me telling you an idea down the pub, you making the design and then me trying to claim copyright.

Further reading:

http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2010/04/09/dealing-with-clients-who-refuse-to-pay/

Even further reading:

http://www.landb.co.uk/design/general02.html

Copyright law

The following summarises our understanding but is not intended to be legal advice. Further information can be found at the websites listed below.

Under UK law, the originator of art, design, music and writing is the copyright owner and has intellectual rights – and these can be licensed to the company or person who commissioned the work for various uses. In general the licensed use is the purpose of the original commission – eg design and print of 10k leaflets would mean the sale of a “licence” for exactly that. Further uses of the artwork or its adaptation for another project would be by negotiation, and ownership of the electronic files, the design and all of the component parts remain with the designer.

Is he claiming ownership of the images, or is he more angry that you have displayed ideas for a product he’s working on, on the internet?

If the latter then I can sort of see his point. There is an element of client confidentiality involved with certain projects, and if word gets around you can’t be trusted to keep things confidential then it could be bad for you if he’s well connected (even though he’s very much in the wrong for not paying).

If it was a sensitive design he should of made the OP sign an NDA. His loss, once again.

Yeah OP might get a slight reputation for showing sensitive work, but the client will get a worse rep for not properly putting in place an NDA.

I’m liking the racecar video on your site but one thing confuses me.
Whilst driving along the car shakes while going over the track.
Shouldn’t the camera perspective you are showing mean that thecar doesn’t shake and the whole earth around should?
ie if the camera is fixed to the car it should shake too making the shaking car appear smooth.

A couple of days later I got a really angry phone call from him(effing and Blinding) telling me that I was gonna get sued and taken to court for releasing the images. I told him that as he hadn’t paid for them they were my work so I owned the rights to do what I wanted. He didn’t agree stating that they were his ideas.

I have an idea for a time machine. I just need a few theoretical physicists to do the donkey work for me. If you had a contract (which was honored) to create images based on a 3D model then unless the contract explicitly stated that you would not re render anything, or indeed that he would own the models on completion then the models would be yours to do with as you saw fit, which would include renders for self promotion.

Sounds like he’s being a massive drongo. But you have to expect any/every client to turn into a flamin gallah and have strict working practices which will involve a contract and deposit before work is commenced.

@iola thanks, I think the video you are referring to was someone being filmed driving an actual simulator on a motion base. I can’t remember whether the camera was behind the motion base(static) or actually in the cockpit but I think that may clear it up for you.

@muffin-man I think it was more the ideas, which I understand myself but we only spoke for a few weeks and then nothing for over a year, I probably would never of heard from him again if I hadn’t of found the images.

@plyphon thanks for the links, I only asked on here as I know there a few freelancers knocking around and I was already signed in to this forum. And I was more than convinced I was in the right, I just wanted an outside perspective.

Thanks for everyone’s input, I’m going to leave them of the web anyway as they don’t make too much difference to me, and I think it will save a bit of hassle.

Could the good will gesture be seen as the example watermarked images that I supplied to him?

Nope, still needs to be in writing and agreed by both parties.

I ask on project completion if a client is happy for me to include the work on our website (it might even be in the ts&cs that they have to specifically ask for it not to be but it’s always nicer to ask) and most of it includes their logo/branding etc, yours doesn’t so even less of an issue.

I think I’d keep them there just to stick 2 fingers up at the guy for not paying his bill!

There is an element of client confidentiality

It’s a moot point if they’re not going to be used on the portfolio website, but without payment or contract there is no client.

If I were you OP, I’d be the one that was pissed off if he’s going to further develop or use your work for whatever project he is running. You’re the one who should be getting all shouty and threatening to sue.

As above, you retain copywrite until artwork is signed over to a client either on payment or as a good will gesture. No contract, no payment, not your problem

wrong. the creator always retains copyright even if you licensed the image for worldwide all media use in perpetuity. you dont hand over copyright, only a licence to use.
if you have watertight paperwork (as all freelancers should) then the licence doesn’t start until payment has been made in full, even if the work has been used. this way if there is a take-over or an intermediary client goes bust you are left holding all the cards.

i had a client go into administration with all my images online and in 20000 printed catalogues owing me several £k of fee’s. a quick beginners guide to IP law over the phone with the administrator and i was paid in 3 days while creditors for goods/services got pence in the £ months later.

.

i had a client go into administration with all my images online and in 20000 printed catalogues owing me several £k of fee’s. a quick beginners guide to IP law over the phone with the administrator and i was paid in 3 days while creditors for goods/services got pence in the £ months later.

Aren’t you the clever boy.

Aren’t you the clever boy.

no just not naive enough to think the world of business is best done in an arbitrary way without the need to issue T&C’s with a quote/invoice.
you don’t have to be a “clever boy”t to see the advantage of doing so when it takes literally seconds to cut and paste. it’s more about ‘aren’t you a bit stupid’ for not doing something so simple that legally covers you?

Id finish his car off by putting a massive cock in the driving seat them email it to him telling him to jog on.

Hang on, let’s not mince words here.

The non-client has stolen the OP’s work. Not only that, he’s making demands on the OP around what he can and can’t do with the originals. If I broke into your house and stole your stereo, then a year on ring you up and start telling you that I was going to sue you unless you stopped listening to Celine Dion, would you go “oh, all right then”?

The only remote claim he may have is that the work was based on “his ideas.” Facebook jumps to mind here, Zuckerberg eventually paid off those two Olsen twins who were going “hey, we thought of that” every five minutes. Whether that was because he thought they had a claim or whether it was just for an easy life / doing the right thing I don’t know. And that said, “here’s a car, can you stick a body kit on it” isn’t exactly a leftfield concept.

As for finishing the work, I suggest you double your fee (interest on the original unpaid commission plus arsehole tax) and demand payment in full before agreeing to that.