The Olds have been visited by a company called A Shade Greener or similar about fitting photovoltaics to their roof. Essentially the company rent the roof space, and my parents get the to use the electricity they generate. The company pay for the panels, fitting, maintenance and insurance costs whilst taking the lucrative feed-in tariff, for 25years. I am pleased that they are interested in doing this, mainly for the money saving on leccy bills and understand that the feed-in tariff is pretty good, but they cannot afford the panels themselves. Am I missing anything, or should I just be pleased that they are doing something positive for the environment?

If they can’t afford the panels I guess it’s a good way to go.

My in-laws paid for a 4kw setup and in the last 12months saved £800 on their annual electricity bill. So there are big savings to be had as well as the environmental benefit.

I’ve not long bought a house with ashadegreener solar panels already installed.

We had an absolute mare actually buying it though, due to the wording on the solar panel lease.

If your folks own the house, then go ahead, however make sure you have the lease read, by your solicitor.

You want to pay particular attention to mortgagee in possession clause and also ensure there is a break in automatic right of lease renewal.

If you don’t you’ll have an absolute mare trying to sell the house at a later date.

Other than that, all good, we’re saving quite a bit on electric bills.

Our neighbours had solar panels fitted recently.
I looked up some information on it myself at the time here;
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/free-solar-panels

I think the gist of it was that if you can afford it, pay for them yourself and get cheap electricity and also sell some back to the electricity company.
If you can’t afford it, get the installers to pay for it, then all you get is the cheap electricity. The installers get the refund every year from the electricity company.

Either way you win, it’s just a matter of how much you want to invest and whether you want to share the benefits.

There are two payments for solar panels. The Feed in Tariff is paid for every kW generated, whether fed into the grid or used in the house. The current rate is (I think) 14.9p/kWh, which the company will take. There’s also an export rate, currently 4.64p/kWh, for electricity actually fed in to the grid – I’m guessing the company take that as well. Since most houses don’t yet have meters that read how much is exported, this is assumed to be half what is generated. So you can use as much as you can and the export payment isn’t affected.

BUT at some point in the future, export meters will be fitted and if it’s used in the house, the 4.64p/kWh won’t be paid. I would want to make sure that the contract was clear about how much can be used by your parents, and what happens if an export meter is fitted, as that could make a dent in the company’s income and they may have tried to put something in the contract to limit their loss.

I have an inkling that there are some sneaky things built into those agreements, such as you being liable for any repair costs. Some insure you against this so it’s worth checking. Also bear in mind that based on electricity savings only, the panels are likely only to be worth about £125 per year, so signing a 25 year contract (and there is no option to buy the panels at any point) has to be thought through carefully for the sake of a tenner a month.

we looked into it and to be honest as we are at work all day its pointless as we dont benefit from teh cheap leccy.

if your rents only use leccy and are in all day it might be worth it.

the whole rental of your roof is also a greay area. you would want the installer to be liable for the roof structure post installation etc etc. read the small print carefully

Depending upon the terms you need to be careful with the rental agreement on the roof. It’s akin to double glazing sales in the 1980s.

Selling the property might become an issue as I wouldn’t want to buy a house where a 3rd party has rights over your roof.

Points to consider – Who maintains the roof and how much of a problem will this be if the panels are in the way and does the company want loss of income if they need to be removed.

What if the house burns down. I’ve heard that some contracts leave you liable for the money that they didn’t get from generation for the remaining years of the 25 years and any reinstall cost. Insurance may pay for the panels to get replaced but not for other costs. They also may not cover for a 3rd party ownership item.

Be very careful.

But elderly couple spending a lot more time at home is the best situation for this as they’ll use more of the generated electricity than a working family.

Shop around though. Approach some installers rather than going with the one knocking on the door as they’ll be giving the worst rates no doubt.

The environmental benefit arguemenrt is b*****ks. If the UK’s CO2 emissions ceased tomorrow, the growth in Chinas emissions would be larger than that of what the UKs was. Its a bit like urinating against a tidal wave.

Try to get some battery back-up installed too, that way they recharge during the day and you then get to use that stored energy when it’s dark.

I’ve just signed up to the Shade Greener deal. The company is in effect renting the air space above your roof for an agreed 25 years. You get to use any or all of the energy generated for free in exchange. The company gets paid per unit of any electricity generated, not just that sold back to the grid. The agreement isthatbthe company are responsible for maintenance of the system, you don’t touch it. If you need roof repairs they will remove and refit the installation twice within the 25 year rental period for free. I’ve checke and rechecked the agreement, and cannot find a catch. They estimate savings of between 30 and 50 percent of your energy costs, but let slip that that was as long as you use daytime electricity at peak generating times, ie long bright days, so well be getting timers for tumble dryer, washing machine and dishwasher. They are our main uses of electricity, often two wash cycles a day, so our savings will be pretty good. However, as its free saving I can’t see how we could be disadvantaged, other that he resale issue.

To install the panels myself would cost around £7k, and I don’t intend to stay in this house long enough to recoup that much. I will however consider my own system when I retire and move out. The agent tells me they have to install about 360 a week to stay profitable at the current Feed In Tarrif, but once they install the figure is locked in, so they are still enjoying the benefits from early installations where they are being paid 25p.

Yeah wording of the lease you give them to your roof for 25 years needs checking and if you have mortgage then they will need to agree it to.

edward2000 – Member
The environmental benefit arguemenrt is b*****ks. If the UK’s CO2 emissions ceased tomorrow, the growth in Chinas emissions would be larger than that of what the UKs was. Its a bit like urinating against a tidal wave.

and because of that we shouldn’t bother obviously….

As energy prices are heading up not down it sounds like it could be a good deal and a worthwhile extra when selling the house.

I’m not sure it’s a benefit when selling a house because it would prevent the buyer doing it properly and gaining the full benefits.

Mikewsmith – I never said it wasn’t worth doing.

Fair enough but there is a benefit to reducing emissions even if others are increasing. Your argument is based on not being able to control China etc. you can control what is in your back yard. The net effect is less than if you did nothing.

From http://www.which.co.uk/energy/creating-an-energy-saving-home/guides/how-to-buy-solar-panels/free-solar-schemes/

which is an interesting read

The pink bit is money back to you, the purply bit is money to the company you rented your roof to

I’ve had mine installed for nearly 2 years now and I’m getting an 11% return on my outlay, which will pay for itself in 8 years. I then get 17 years of tax free profit + cheaper Elec bills 8)

If you’ve got the money sat in the back effectively losing value, (Inflation > interest rates), then it’s a no brainer!!

But if you haven’t got the money sitting in a bank then having installed for free is a second best solution.

I am going to be working from home tomorrow while my solar panels get installed (I’ve paid for them).

As to the OPs original question, I think the answer is check carefully on the terms and conditions and consider future selling complications, i.e pretty much what everyone else has said.

If you are buying outright is there a reputable company to get a quote from? My roof isn’t ideal so I need some advice I can trust rather than getting a salesman who just wants to get his figures up.

Save me starting another thread.

Gents … hope to be moving shortly and expect to be in the next house a long time… it has a south facing back garden in sunny Brentwood
so I’m thinking about solar panels and paying for them up front.

Any of you wish hadn’t done it ?

I understand tariffs are about to fall a little again but is it still worth it?

When 100mph+ above states he’s getting 11% return … he means that if the system cost him 10k he’s getting 1100 quid back a year from the government, right ? … So how is that paid back to you ?

And how much does your electricity bill reduce by in percentage terms.

I’ve got leccy underfloor heating in part of the house I’m moving from and it’s expensive, but would leccy ufh be ideal in a house with solar PVs ?

Ta guys

RockHopper….. have a look at the calculator here.

http://www.solarguide.co.uk/

Ro5ey:

I’ve got leccy underfloor heating in part of the house I’m moving from and it’s expensive, but would leccy ufh be ideal in a house with solar PVs ?

You get paid a set amount per Kwh your system produces (you have a meter and supply readings every 3 months) – this is called the FIT tarrif and has been getting lower every year as the cost of installations fall.
You also get paid a tiddly amount for the power you export – it’s not measured at the moment, it’s assumed you export 50% of your production.
So from this you can derive 2 points:
1) The sunnier it is the more you will get paid
2) It’s better to use as much of the power you produce as possible.

With regards to the UFH: you can fit whats called a proportional controller that monitors how much power is being USED by your property and how much the panels are producing – it then takes all the surplus power and sends it to a circuit on your consumer unit.
This is usually the immersion circuit, so it will either pre-heat your water or completely heat it depending upon how much surplus is produced.
I’ve just fitted a unit called a SolarImmersion which does this but when the thermostat on the HW cylinder switches off the unit then sends surplus power to an oil filled radiator to give some background heat.
The production below was would have been enough to heat about 200l from 7 to 60 degs C.

Not bad for February

Ro5ey if you have underfloor heating, and wanting something back, then you should also consider Heat Pumps which are also under the MCS scheme.

Have a look at the MCS website for registered suppliers, or via one of the accreditation bodies such as the BBA.