Viewing 33 posts - 1 through 33 (of 33 total)
  • Fork fettling …. tokens, ramp control, pixie dust etc
  • letmetalktomark
    Full Member

    So ……..

    Yesterday I jumped on the CRC PSA bandwagon and ordered a Pike RC for my Sherpa to replace a Reba RL on there currently.

    It’s not that I “send it” or “smash through rock gardens” but I’ve felt like trying something with more girth in the stantion dept. as whilst an XC mincer at heart I am fairly heavy!

    Anyway ….. justification to self for purchase over …… fettling ……

    The fanciest fork I’ve ever owned is a current SID RCT3 29er. The fork is left in open and I’m not sure I’ve ever really played with it apart from setting the sag and the rebound.

    I’ve not even received my Pike but I’m already looking at Tokens and the MRP ramp controller. Hmm.

    In laymans terms what to the tokens achieve and what are the benefits/rationale for running between 1&4 vs not running any?

    Fitting them looks simple enough – I’m comfortable at pulling forks apart – but the MRP controller looks like it allows you to change “effective tokens” on the fly.

    Do people find that they end up playing with tokens or do you fit and forget based on recommendations for riding style, weight, terrain?

    An extra dial is always nice but …..

    All help/views/offers of pixie dust much appreciated 🙂

    Thanks, Mark

    STATO
    Free Member

    On a Sherpa so guess you got the 120mm, so it will likely come with the recommended 3 tokens installed. This is because the air chamber needs to ramp up quicker than the longer travel versions, as you are starting nearer bottom-out. If you add more you usually drop pressure a little so it will be more progressive/softer at the start. Less will be more linear and therefore needs to be firmer to start. What you need depends on how hard you use them and personal preference for how much you like the fork to react to big and small hits.

    and remember, always let the air out before removing the top cap! 😆

    letmetalktomark
    Full Member

    Hmm.

    That’s interesting, thank you. Yes the 120 btw

    I assumed that these are likely to be OE and as such not come with any tokens.

    I hadn’t realised that they were or could come factory fitted.

    Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middling Edition

    Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middlin...
    Latest Singletrack Videos
    stevied
    Free Member

    I recently fitted a couple of tokens to my 180mm Yari (they came with the fork). 1st ride on that set-up was at Revolution and it was much, much better than running 0 tokens. Could run slightly less pressure to help small bump stuff but never bottomed out on the jumps/drops etc by about 5-6mm.
    I’ll be leaving them in for a while and see how the setup fairs on my normal routes.

    mjsmke
    Full Member

    Mine were 130mm and came with 2 tokens installed and felt too linear. 3 felt too progressive so i played with the pressure and rebound for a few rides. I ended up cutting a token in half so i could run 2 and a half tokens which felt just right.

    Last week I changed the 130mm shaft to a 140mm and the fettling starts all over again.

    A couple of things worth noting with the Pikes:

    They take a little while to bed in so give them a chance before playing about too much with tokens.
    Make sure the top cap is clean before removing to avoid dirt getting inside the fork, and as said above, remove all pressure first!

    benpinnick
    Full Member
    STATO
    Free Member

    Or here for the facebook phobic

    chakaping
    Free Member

    I find the Pike works really well at 120mm with the recommended number of tokens fitted.

    I wouldn’t spend any more until you’ve given it a try anyway.

    STATO
    Free Member

    Bird say;

    35mm Pike Forks (RC & RCT3) : +1 token for every 20mm away from the max travel of the fork (160mm on a 27.5) + 2 tokens

    So 160mm max on the 29er, dropped to 120mm is 2 tokens, +2 just because = 4 tokens.

    letmetalktomark
    Full Member

    Thanks all – Much appreciated.

    @ Ben – I think that’s the most helpful guide I’ve read so far, thank you.

    Sooooo ….. There is a good chance that the fork en route to me will have three tokens fitted as stock (29er @120mm travel)but four may be betterer 😉

    A few test rides will be needed me thinks. I’ll do this without opening the fork as to not cloud my judgement 😆

    Quick query on the MRP device then ….. given its range of adjustment it could in theory offer the effect of 1,2,3,4,5,6 tokens and (I’m guessing here) increments of half or quarter tokens too?

    benpinnick
    Full Member

    The MRP works by restricting the air flow into the secondary chamber, which in theory means its like having no tokens at low speed, and as many tokens as you like at high speed, with infinite adjustment *

    * not that this is necessarily a good thing!

    letmetalktomark
    Full Member

    So you would benefit form a very supple fork over small bumps and depending what you had dialled in on the device, in effect, up to 6 tokens fitted (in my case).

    Northwind
    Full Member

    The thing to do, is take a note of the current setup, then fanny about with it. If you can tell the difference then you can make it better, if you can’t then it doesn’t matter. You don’t even need to necessarily understand any of it, you can appease the fork spirits by giving them gifts of tokens or whatever, understanding the outcomes is all you really need.

    (if you can’t tell a difference, make it terrible- you’ll definitely know then and it’s actually easier to walk it back from terrible towards good, than it is to go from alright to good)

    poah
    Free Member

    Best thing I ever did to my pikes was fit a luftkappe, it changes the fork completely for me. I always felt like it was over damped and the change in air spring makes it more matched. It doesn’t feel unbalanced with my coil shock now.

    Tokens just made it worse in my case

    Scienceofficer
    Free Member

    If you’re a bit heavier than normal you might benefit from an extra token or two (depending on riding style).

    At 90kg in a 140mm 29er pike, I ended up with an extra one.(? instead of 2)

    honourablegeorge
    Full Member

    benpinnick – Member

    ……..as many tokens as you like at high speed, with infinite adjustment *

    As long as you don’t link more than three, I think – their chart shows it as equivalent to three at max.

    I’m properly manly* so I use four

    *fat

    Goldigger
    Free Member

    100 kg kitted up, 150mm pike with 2 tokens fitted. Still dives through it mid travel.
    Off to TF tuned to sort it out.

    letmetalktomark
    Full Member

    Further Hmm.

    I’m going to be over 100kg on the bike.

    Gold digger is yours a 29er fork?

    chiefgrooveguru
    Full Member

    100 kg kitted up, 150mm pike with 2 tokens fitted. Still dives through it mid travel.
    Off to TF tuned to sort it out.

    Luftkappe will sort that – ask TF tuned to fit one.

    Goldigger
    Free Member

    Letmetalktark

    No it’s a 2014 27.5 RCT3.

    mildbore
    Full Member

    Be careful with air pressure if you try to run them without tokens as they can be quite divey. I had an otb with my Pikes when I first got them because I wanted to see how they were before fitting tokens

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    Sorry to divert from the OP – I have a 120mm Reba 29. People say they are better with 1 extra Token fitted. With no token adjustment I find them quick to dive and ading air makes them harsher over small bumps.

    Am I right adding a token would fix this?

    poah
    Free Member

    No, get yourself a novypart air piston

    mjsmke
    Full Member

    Sorry to divert from the OP – I have a 120mm Reba 29. People say they are better with 1 extra Token fitted. With no token adjustment I find them quick to dive and ading air makes them harsher over small bumps.

    Am I right adding a token would fix this?

    Yes. Adding a token will keep the first part of the travel the same but will make the end of the travel harder.

    Tom_W1987
    Free Member

    ….and adding tokens and dropping PSI exacerbates the dive – but then gives you a lovely spikey end stroke and weird rebound when hammering through rock gardens.

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    Eh? Makes the dive worse?

    Tom_W1987
    Free Member

    Well, unless you are diving into the last third of travel

    You add tokens and it reduces you sag, as this chart shows, so you drop psi to get your original sag/ride height – you reduce support the new found in the midstroke and have a ridiculously progressive end stroke.

    That of course is a little bit of an exaggeration as you can find a happy medium with tokens – but I’ve seen, read or talked to a lot of people who run 25-30 percent sag with a ridiculous amount of tokens and then wonder why their forks feel like shit.

    poah
    Free Member

    Exactly why I took token out and increased psi before I fitted the luftkappe

    Tom_W1987
    Free Member

    It’s also why a coil solves literally **** everything. From what I’ve read, on the odd really high speed drop into a rock garden or huck to flat – a progressive air spring might help, but a good damper that can resist the shaft speeds of your normal drop into a landing etc will resist those speeds whilst blowing off on square edged hits. An engineer is free to come along and tell me that I am wrong though.

    It’s also why I suspect there is a reason why Enduro riders (looking at you Ohlins) are being caught running coils – and the recent DH bike checks by pinkbike list all the downhillers as running springs – springs just work, are predictable to damp on the rebound and offer a good amount of midstroke support for the desired amount of sag and bottom out resistance.

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    Sounds to me like I may save myself £13 and stick with a couple of clicks of LSC…

    Tom_W1987
    Free Member

    I’m not always sure just increasing LSC will help, I’m a bit sceptical of the Avalanche dampers – but they’re designed around strong midstack valving and a seperate blow of valve that allows the damping to blow off under high speed hits – the aim being to force oil through the shims under speeds usually found in drops – but blow off on square edged hits.

    I haven’t fully looked into how increasing LSC can affect HSC and actually change where the HSC damping starts – possibly lowering the point at which HSC circuits kick in by forcing more oil to pass through the preloaded HSC stack. I think, that it’s possible – that to get really, really good damping like that – you have to have all sorts of things tuned and all sorts of settings right, the shim stacks, the porting, the preload on the shims – there is a lot you can’t adjust – just by using external adjusters. This was alluded to in another thread, but I haven’t had the time to get my head around it – and I could have understood the post incorrectly – so I could be very wrong on the points I’ve made in this post.

    I do love thinking about it though – when I get the time. Which is rare these days, I kind of wish I studied Motorsports Engineering at degree level.

    nickc
    Full Member

    It’s also why a coil solves literally **** everything.

    Apart from the spring rate being fixed, and completely linear. Another ‘slight’ exaggeration?

    Tom_W1987
    Free Member

    Apart from the spring rate being fixed, and completely linear. Another ‘slight’ exaggeration?

    …..run less sag.You still get grip because they’re more sensitive, you get more midstroke and you’ll get the decent bottom out resistance. I went from around 23-24 percent sag with 2 tokens on my pike, to a coil with 20 – more grip, more support – I use a TINY bit more travel on big hits – but not much.

    The lack of progression doesn’t seem to hurt any of the DHers who swap out their air springs for coils.

Viewing 33 posts - 1 through 33 (of 33 total)

The topic ‘Fork fettling …. tokens, ramp control, pixie dust etc’ is closed to new replies.