It seems that this is happening more regularly this season.

I thought that, after Hillsborough, this was regarded as a line not be crossed. Perimeter fences removed as a result of tragedy meaning that there was effectively a duty of care imposed on fans not to do things that could lead to a re-imposition?

The only external factor is the increased surveillance of the crowd meaning that trouble-makers could be identified.

I really, really hope that this is stamped out by the law-abiding vast majority of fans as we don’t want to (and can’t) go down the ‘pens’ route again.

If the clubs can’t have perimeter fences, and people keep invading the pitch, the only alternative (eventually) will be to stop games and play a the remainder of the match behind closed doors (keeping the score-line the same so fans don’t have the ‘nuclear option’ of invading the pitch when their team is going to lose.

what bollox

what bollox

Which bit please? You’re such a wordsmith that I feel the need to address your point properly.

If you have issues with it SEEMING like it happening more, that’s why I used the word ‘seem’.

What else is wrong, exactly?

What sanction would you put in place if there was an escalation to large-scale pitch invasions again? You couldn’t hope to identify all the offenders on every occasion.

Although I admire your succinct style, I suspect that’s all it is – style – with not a lot of substance.

Feel free to prove me wrong.

Fans on the pitch was the least of the problems in the ‘bad old days’.

Captjon and rob Jackson +1

If the clubs can’t have perimeter fences, and people keep invading the pitch, the only alternative (eventually) will be to stop games and play a the remainder of the match behind closed doors (keeping the score-line the same so fans don’t have the ‘nuclear option’ of invading the pitch when their team is going to lose.

That bit is 100% bollox

Don’t think it is escalating. Your always gonna get the odd loony. Don’t think there is any need to react to the actions of a few pillocks. The current talk of bringing back terraces, modern designs of which include gated pens would be an interesting new addition.

Fans on the pitch was the least of the problems in the ‘bad old days’.

That’s probably right, but it was the perceived need to restrict the movement of fans onto the pitch or across terraces that cause the need for perimeter fences, no?

The point is that if it is starting to happen more often, where will it lead? Is there some generational thing going on here where fans who never had experiences of pens and crushes don’t realise what they’re doing?

There is an obvious obligation on the part of the individual not to act in a way that is detrimental to the majority – as in any part of society (even if you can get away with it).

That bit is 100% bollox

Good, that is more specific.

Now your alternatives, please………….

Now your alternatives, please………….

My alternative would be to carry on what they are doing now.

Arrest and charge anyone who does it.

Simple.

sorry to burst bubbles but fans have always run on pitches at least in the 46 years ive been following my club through the 4th 3rd 2nd and premier leagues

dont kid your self that post hillsboro we all collectively thought .. wont do that again.. no… seating brought discipline large numbers of serious police brought discipline

now clubs pay players 100k a week but wont pay for the cops so pay pocket money to stewards and guess what..

My alternative would be to carry on what they are doing now.

Arrest and charge anyone who does it.

Simple.

At what point would that become impossible? Ten, twenty, a hundred, five hundred?

Hopefully it will never get that far, but it has in the past.

Fair enough if it is not actually increasing – it hasn’t been a real issue for over twenty years – I was merely asking if it was on the increase and what could be done if it was to escalate.

No need for people to get all sweaty.

have a look at which fans are always standing and always surging, this is more likely going to escalate the return to pens – hint – starts with L ends with pool

That’s a bit of a can of worms r j!

it is but its as relevant as the OP. This is evidenced based from recent document releases and seeing it on TV so not really a can of worms, a touchy subject yes!

what has happened a mass pitch invasion and a brawl [ leeds and kirkland] or a drunken nobber running around[ pretty much everything else i can think of]

Given the millions who go to football matches the violence and crime is less than you would find at a festival a large town a gig etc

have a look at which fans are always standing and always surging, this is more likely going to escalate the return to pens – hint – starts with L ends with pool

Is it not pretty much every set of fans at certain clubs who wants terracing brought back

IIRC the posdam is pretty hard to do still sat down for example

mass invasion – 7 **** from leeds?

I see somebody’s still taking South Yorkshire Police’s and The Sun’s line, despite both being rubbished recently.

Still, there’s no convincing some people of the truth is there?

Calm down ladies….It’s only wendyball.

IIRC even in the bad old days the chuck out rate at the league grounds of the UK was lower in % terms than the ejection rate from the house of commons. May of course be different now (has Dennis Skinner retired)

DD – this is based on this season not hillsborough disaster era

DD – this is based on this season not hillsborough disaster era

Oh right, is there a link to the report or a news story on it anywhere?

Only, I gather in Anfield, the Kop just always stands and always has. The stadium announcer says “Everybody sit down please”, the crowd cheers and stays standing. Kind of a tradition. I imagine surging in an all seated stadium is a bit difficult. Where were they surging this season? Genuine question btw…I just hadn’t heard of anything.

this is more likely going to escalate the return to pens

You’re not seriously suggesting that this would ever be allowed again are you? Hillsborough was, correctly, a watershed moment – one of those ‘never again’ game-changers.

Hence the original question about what could be done if it did escalate, but perimeter fencing was not allowed – a question that has still not been satisfactorily answered!

Most, if not all, of the OP is bollox.

Let’s start with the first line… “It seems that this is happening more regularly this season.”
Evidence?
None

I’ve been going to football since 1977, top flight (Man Utd) and Northern Prem (Macc Town). I now take my kids to football, top flight (Man Utd) and NPL (Macc Town).

The changes we’ve seen over the years have been significant. We are miles from the ‘bad old days’. OP either doesn’t actually go to football matches or is in cloud cuckoo land.

p.s. I’m in favour of modern safe standing – we do it in the Stretford End anyway but the seats get in the way.

Let’s start with the first line… “It seems that this is happening more regularly this season.”
Evidence?
None

Good – I really mean it.

I’ll stop worrying about it now, then.

Nothing to see here.

I hope you’re proven right.

You’re not seriously suggesting that this would ever be allowed again are you? Hillsborough was, correctly, a watershed moment – one of those ‘never again’ game-changers.

There is safe standing all over Europe.
The Stretford End stands. The Liverpool Kop stands. Seats just get in the way.

There is safe standing all over Europe.

What is it…€12 to watch Bayern Munich standing? Double that would be cheap at Prem prices. Does the stadium announcer ask everyone in the Stretford End to sit down as well?

There is safe standing all over Europe.
The Stretford End stands. The Liverpool Kop stands. Seats just get in the way.

The post I was responding to stated that standing and surging in the Kop was the MOST LIKELY THING TO LEAD TO A RETURN TO THE PENS. Perhaps you want to address a reply to that.

I was saying that the return to pens was unthinkable, not that a return to standing was. Take the time to read stuff before making a fool of yourself.

Let’s start with the first line… “It seems that this is happening more regularly this season.”
Evidence?
None
Good – I really mean it.

I’ll stop worrying about it now, then.

Nothing to see here.

I hope you’re proven right.

Come on then, where do you go to then? What’s your experience of football matches? Or are you a fan who watches on telly, and reacts to shit in the tabloids?.

Troll post—- no experience– just gobbing off-

They were the good old days. The bad days are now.

I’d tend to agree with that!.

They were the good old days. The bad days are now.

I’d certainly agree that the pendulum has swung too far.

Genuine no trolling question here from someone who doesn’t know or care much about football: is it really such a big deal if every so often a few knobbers/enthusiastic fans go on the pitch?

Genuine no trolling question here from someone who doesn’t know or care much about football: is it really such a big deal if every so often a few knobbers/enthusiastic fans go on the pitch?

Yes, during the match: could be intent on lamping a player or the ref, will almost certainly disrupt play.

Imagine your team needs one more goal to win the league (stay up etc), the young lad – came up through the academy – thrown on by the gaffa as one last roll of the dice – is though on goal, one-on-one with the keeper when out of nowhere some pissed up loon jumps the barrier, slides in, breaking the lad’s leg and stopping the goal. Big deal??

After the match: security issue – a crowd of a thousand or more trying to celebrate, hiding ten or so pissed up loons intent on twatting players from the opposing team. Groundstaff shitting themselves about the damage done to the pitch.

Simple solution; ban football. It’s a load of bollocks anyway.

Troll post—- no experience– just gobbing off-

@ rudebwoy

It seems you like to dismiss anyonewho doesn’t share your views as a ‘troll’ and having posted a bit on these forums, I can see there are some groups who like to do the same.

If you want this to be some cosy little chat place where you only hear the things you like to hear, then fine. I’ll just refer to you as good old Uncle Joe from now on. You know, denounces everyone whose opinions he doesn’t like, or that challenge his view of himself. If all goes well, you’ll be surrounded by sycophants only saying what they think you want to hear and you’ll feel really big. Well done.

I’ll just say what you what me to say from now on – I wouldn’t want a show trial followed by 20 years in the virtual gulag, after all.

Bad old days ?
Not sure what you mean by that.
I saw my first games around 1967-8 started going regular in 1970 and have plenty of good memories and a few bad ones.
One thing is for sure I found it a lot easier to afford to go to a game, home and away, than it is now.
I don’t go much at all now, seems like the passion has gone from a lot of grounds,
I reckon I saw Leeds play at about 70 + grounds in the 70s to late 90s and can’t deny there were a few mad bad days but they were few and far between in reality.
And by no means can you compare then and now