So I am a bit of a lazy git. For various, work, family, illness, weather etc reasons I’ve not done any significant biking for probably 6 months. My two usual biking mates, who were always fitter than me anyway, have been training hard in this time – in particular on their road bikes.

I have a 3 day trip with them in September, so I now need to play catch up. One of them is technically no better than me on an MTB, the other is a good bit better, but on long rides I find I get tired and my ‘skills’ go to pot. On multiday rides this fatigue is obvious even on the start of the second/third days.

So I definitely need to get fitter. Experience suggests to me that road biking is more continuous / high intensity / stamina testing and so I should focus my “training” there. However I wonder if I should be focussing on improving my skills – as is poor offroad technique adding to the fatigue? Certainly I found better suspension reduced by fatigue. On long rides its not my lungs which are stopping me – but just I can’t seem to summons any more energy.

So does anyone have a view on the relative merits (for building long term staying power) of:
– getting fitter by road biking
– generally losing weight (eat less, exercise more by any means)
– getting fitter by mtb on short “local routes”
– reducing fatigue by improving skills
– whether there is any point on skills training before being very fit (i.e. is skills training exhausting?)

Or indeed any magic tricks for trying to catch up over the next 4 months, bearing in mind that I have a family, a job etc – and am spending a lot of time traveling with work which gets in the way. Oh and I’m lazy!

– getting fitter by road biking
1- generally losing weight (eat less, exercise more by any means)
2- getting fitter by mtb on short “local routes”
3- reducing fatigue by improving skills
4- whether there is any point on skills training before being very fit (i.e. is skills training exhausting?)

My version

1 can lead to 2
1&2 can let you do 3
4 is important and will help short term to save energy. Skills are always useful but as you say when tired it’s much harder to use them unless they are second nature.

Long and Short lots of time in the saddle required 🙂 Set some goals – possibly book a mid summer Skills course on the deal that you are fit enough to get your moneys worth.

Stop being lazy.

People who are ‘good’ on bikes tend to be good because they do it a lot. Skills can be learned, but they still need learning which equates to time on a bike. Fitness can be improved, but this also equates to time on a bike.

You need time on a bike.

…and to stop being lazy.

I’m gonna take a stab at this and say focus really hard on fitness on short local MTB routes

Your skills are always gonna be so much better if you have a good core.. And if you’re really hammering your local routes you’ll naturally be trying to ride the technical stuff better and quicker as you get fitter just from the buzz of the extra (ahem) ‘flow’ that you’ll acheive, thus building on confidence and the muscle groups and muscle memory that you’re trying to improve..

I do a lot of both MTB and road.
road biking might give you cycling strength but doesn’t make you a fast MTBer. MTB requires technical skill not needed on a road bike.
If you want to be a faster MTBer then ride your MTB more often and faster! The fitness and the skills will then come…

More likely to crash if you’re unfit and trying to keep up with your mates I’d say

For long term anything, you’ll be better off getting fit.

I’ve led tons of group rides in the past, and I’ve always been in the fast group, doing the longest distance, despite my technical skills being pretty useless and me being terrified of anything remotely drop-offy, because at the time I was very fit.

In my experience of riding with technically good but slow and lazy people, it wouldn’t really matter that much either way if you go road or mtb for training, what would matter is that you don’t faff around on your training rides, don’t walk any uphills (if you really can’t ride it in lowest gear, at least run them), don’t stop for 10 minutes at the top of any slight incline, basically don’t pretend that you are going to get fit by doing a slow bimble once a week. If you ride hard every ride, you will get fitter. If you bimble except when you do a massive ride, then the massive rides will hurt.

I would just get out as much as possible – if the road bike means you’d ride more, then do some road rides, but if you can do either from home, then I’d do a good hard mountain bike ride to keep your skills in.

Oh, and travelling with work doesn’t have to mean no exercise – I’m away with work now, and I found a nearby (olympic sized outdoor heated!) pool and did a quick 3K this afternoon, other times I’ve swum in rivers, taken a bike with me, gone for a run. Just skip a few of the late night drinking sessions, don’t waste time in the hotel room, get up early, bring a head torch for a late night run, there’s usually time for something, don’t use it as an excuse.

Basically, you have to start thinking you’re not fit because you choose not to be fit – and if you want to be fit, then choose to go and do some exercise. It isn’t easy, but it is simple.

If you are really serious buy a turbo or road bike and do large amounts of dull zone2 training and 1 – 2 weekly interval sessions (build these up or you may injury yourself)

I have one group of friends who now only meet up at trail centres a few times a year. I went from puffing at the back to having to wait on every climb.

Riding an anthem instead of a nomad made a big difference too

Depends on the trail, trail center then being quick through corners or over jumps would keep you with a group on anything other than fire road climbs. More natural stuff devoid of long technical section then fitness is going to be more use.

I’d say:

1) lose weight, unless you’re a secret Pro then you wont be at the point where losing weight will massively affect your power. So losing weight will give an easy win when it comes to climbing.
2) Technical skills, put that new found speed to best use by minimizing how much power you actually need, if you can get through something off the brakes then that’s a load of free speed you don’t need to waste valuable energy maintaining. And if you can do it better than the guy in front then you can take it easy while he works up a sweat then pounce on the next climb.
3) see “stop being lazy” below.

For long term anything, you’ll be better off getting fit.

Disagree, learn something new and you’ve got it forever, whether that’s looking further down the trail, cornering better, whatever, in 5 minutes or 5 months it’ll still be there in your head. Fitness will be a long lost memory.

OK it won’t get you round a 60 miles lakes loop, but it’ll get you round a trail center as long as you can survive the climbs.

Stop being lazy.

People who are ‘good’ on bikes tend to be good because they do it a lot. Skills can be learned, but they still need learning which equates to time on a bike. Fitness can be improved, but this also equates to time on a bike.

You need time on a bike.

…and to stop being lazy.

This is true though.

mikesmith – interesting about your view on skills helping to “last longer” – that was one of my reasons for the thread. Obviously I want a magic wand – I realise none will exist, but maybe some of the people who have been “Jedi’d” think they can ride longer too?

crikey – you’ve probably hit the nail on the head – but I’m sure there must be an element of ‘training smarter” rather than just training harder. I want to do 8 hours in the saddle and get up and do the same the next day etc. That must be different for being the fastest round a wee XC course.

yunki – thats kind of what I hoped you would say. Its practical and enjoyable for me to find an hour 2+ times a week to hit the local routes. But if to build “all day ride fitness” means doing all day rides, that is harder for logistics.

broess – its not necessarily ‘speed’ that I need though. I am slower than I want to be (especially uphill) but its longevity that is the challenge.

rotten – yes crashes increase for as I get tired. This then leads to nerves/confidence issues and I either don’t ride, or ride badly over stuff I would do if I was fresh.

Joemarshall – thats some useful comparison between the good but unfit and the unskilled but fit. Its mostly air travel so bike is not practical. I rarely have time to find somewhere half decent to eat never mind get exercise. Each trip is usually somewhere new. I’ve never been much of a runner, and with no knowledge of the local geography, its certainly not easy – especially after very long days travelling; its rarely late nights in the pub. Current plan is for no overnight travel for the next 4 weeks – so hoping to make some progress in this time.

DT78 – I have a turbo and a road bike. The turbo is mental torture! I have a spare old hardtail – any sense in making is a single speed and using it for local round town / short routes – or is it a myth that S/S improves fitness.

ThisIsNotASpoon – no worries that loosing weight would impede me (BMI 25.5). Our long rides are always natural stuff, and can involve quite technical bits. This is where I feel my skills need improving. At a trail centre I will usually have a go at most things because I know it has been built to ride, the path is obvious, there are unlikely to be any suicidal drops round a corner without warning etc. And of course the same applies on local natural stuff that I know. But put me in unknown natural stuff I seem to go a bit ‘rigid’.

OK
[PERSONAL OPINION/EXPERIENCE]
The whole lot is a balance, as I said unless you skills are second nature once you get tired you drop back to default settings.

By Skills helping you to last longer, a lot of the time you can carry as much speed (if not more) through trails by not braking and being smooth, pedaling can be counter productive. Learning to flow, pump and be smooth can reduce the amount of effort needed to make the bike move through trails. the skill to practice is when you catch a slower rider on the trail try not to pedal, if you loose speed it’s gone, if you get out of shape it’s gone. On longer rides the less effort you put into pedaling the more you can save for later. However it will hurt all your other muscles more in the short term.
[PERSONAL OPINION/EXPERIENCE]

Hope that makes sense

People who are ‘good’ on bikes tend to be good because they do it a lot. Skills can be learned, but they still need learning which equates to time on a bike.

A point people seem to miss when they talk about “skills training”. It actually takes just as much hard graft as fitness training, the difference being that whilst fitness training tends to be painful in the legs, skills training tends to be painful in the head (aka boring) because it involves a lot of basic repetition rather than fun stuff.

I’m the first to admit that I tend to prefer getting out for a ride than spending the time grafting to improve my skills.

The difference (IMO) between “skills training” and just getting better by riding is with someone telling you what to do or you’re doing wrong you get to a higher standard far quicker.

Yes you could learn to jump in a summer on a BMX, of you could pay someone £80 and get to the same standard in an afternoon.

Two ways to look at that, you can spend the rest of the summer riding quickly and getting fit, or you’d get fit learning. From experience it doesn’t work, you just end up able to jump but hideously unfit!

There’s no short cuts. You just need to spend alot of time riding your bike.

Yes you could learn to jump in a summer on a BMX, of you could pay someone £80 and get to the same standard in an afternoon.

Except it’s not quite that simple – there’s still a lot of work involved in learning skills, you can’t just expect somebody to teach you them.

Ride ride and ride some more. You ride a lot better when you’re not blowing out your bum all the time. The more you ride the more you get to intuitively feel what your bike is doing, know what its going to do, and develop the confidence to throw it around.

focus on enjoying your riding then you will get more motivation to ride more etc

but its always tough when your mates are super fit, i have the same issue but sometimes have to just tell them where to wait for me.

For trips away, Garmin connect can help you learn the new location along with Open Street Map.

DT78 – I have a turbo and a road bike. The turbo is mental torture! I have a spare old hardtail – any sense in making is a single speed and using it for local round town / short routes – or is it a myth that S/S improves fitness.

It may be a myth, I guess it depends on the individual.

My recent experience is that S/S definitely contributes to fitness. I had never singlespeeded before this winter. I only started it because my Alfine hub packed up. I have gone from being at the tail end of the group I ride with to being at the front, on climbs anyway. I would say it raises the threshhold at which you feel that uncomfortable nip in your legs when you’re climbing, and that it improves and smooths out your pedalling technique when you’re spinning out on flat or slight downhill sections. I think it has improved my riding on any of my bikes, s/s, full susser and road bike.

or is it a myth that S/S improves fitness.

From the SS’s I have seen it improves smoothness (see my previous points) if you don’t have the gears you need to conserve/preserve more so hitting the next up with momentum from the last etc.