Did none of you ever have any fun jumping etc. on your bikes as kids?

Took a while as I had a grifter that weighed a tonne and was several sizes too big for me! Shall not be making that mistake with blobby jr 🙂

Edit: and for the OP, took a few rides and quite a bit of fiddling with other contact points before it all gelled with flats. Still run SPD’s for racing, but use flats for everything else on mtb. Brilliant this time of year for some foot out cornering, muddier the better 🙂

GW – to stick my nose in, IME being clipped didn’t cause my crash, but it meant I didn’t unclip in time to not take all my substantial weight on my left hand/wrist. I’m pretty sure if i hadn’t been clipped in I’d have got a foot down and at least ‘spread the load’.

I’m almost certain you simply have poor crashing/bailing technique. If you didn’t you wouldn’t ever land with all your weight on one wrist/hand. 😉

Point is tho, clips aren’t making anyone crash, poor riding is!

rick – I could get you riding flats better in an hour, if you want to try again “properly” just ask next time we’re riding together.

both of his serious crashes were as a result of not clipping out.

Care to explain how crashes are caused by not clipping out?

GW you are so predictably contrary 🙄 . MC has done a pretty good job of explaining more than once how I was injured and how SPDs contributed to those injuries. It’s clear from her other posts she means caused the injuries not caused the crashes. I have had numerous crashes in 18 years of riding. In 2 of those crashes, my SPDs not unclipping lead to injuries (torn ankle ligaments in one, a broken tibia in another). Both these injuries meant time off work sick, setting back my career, on top of missing a full season’s riding on each occasion and needing surgery for the latter.

To me the dangers of not unclipping are, though slight (I’d ridden with spds for years prior with no real issues) a real, quantifiable risk, and not riding them is for me a sensible decision based on personal experience. Sharing that experience explained to the OP why I took up flats, and why I persevered when it took a long time to bond with them. I have broken an elbow and torn a tricep this summer (in a freakish low-speed off) so I don’t think flat pedals magically prevent accidents or injury, but as I’m getting older and my employer is starting to notice I have taken steps to minimise the risks (flat pedals, elbow and knee pads, not always riding to my limits).

And +1 for Jedi on bunny hopping, I tried the scoop technique when I first got flats and it is frankly ridiculous.

Took me ages to get comfortable on flats… But I used to be very rigid on the bike, totally reliant on the pedals to stay attached- very bad form regardless of what sort of pedals you use but you can get away with it when clipped in.

If you’ve got good form, you should be able to adapt quite quickly to flats but I reckon an awful lot of riders are much like I was, and just don’t know they’ve got an issue. (getting rid of it will pay off even if you go back to SPDs though IMO)

In 2 of those crashes, my SPDs not unclipping lead to injuries

Jeez! stop blaming the equipment!
your foot (controlled by you) did not unclip, not the pedals. (or did the emergency services have to cut your shoe free from your before you were carted off to hospital?)

if your shorts snag on your shifter causing you to crash it’s not the shifter or the shorts fault it’s 100% user error!!

To me the dangers of not unclipping are, though slight (I’d ridden with spds for years prior with no real issues) a real, quantifiable risk, and not riding them is for me a sensible decision based on personal experience.

Well said. I’ve had similar experience to yourself by the sound of things. I had a reasonably bad off, with the most serious injury being caused by not being able to unclip one foot before me & the bike bounced around and cartwheeled through a rock garden. I might have still dislocated my kneecap, but at least my knee wouldn’t have been bent in two or three directions it wasn’t designed to travel in!

But then, I bet there’s people on here who’d say “I crashed because my foot slipped off my flats, which I’d been clipped in” 😉

I fairly regularly switch between flats and SPDs, depending on what bike I’m using. I’ve had a few offs with SPDs where my foot hasn’t come out (generally because I try my hardest to stay attached for as long as possible as I’ve ridden out of some rather frighteningly out of control situations). Almost all of my crashes on bikes have been due to being on flats and slipping off them, but I like the ability to bail early on technical stuff. Steep steppy hill sections where you’re bordering on an endo all the way down – flats let you step backwards off the pedals instantly, SPDs require a split second more reaction time and the action of twist and pull seems to take a couple of extra nanoseconds that makes me not attempt some of the trickier stuff.

I’ve recenly injured my back though, which means that it’s really hard to achieve that body stiffness in an arched position to maintain a good rearward force on the pedals while bunnyhopping for example, and that’s left me injuring myself repeatedly and wishing for my SPDs back again where I could lazily just lift my feet.

if your shorts snag on your shifter causing you to crash it’s not the shifter or the shorts fault it’s 100% user error!!

lol, not really. how is it user error if your shorts snag? i wouldnt have made them get tangled up in the shifter…

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xh0Aa4NzsY&feature=g-vrec&context=G2580badRVAAAAAAAABQ[/video]

GW you are just being an obnoxious **** now!!! Why would you want an excuse for the crash? Simple if Mr MC’s foot has unclipped when he crashed in Morzine his knee wouldn’t have twisted and hence causing that injury. Yes he may well have had just as serious injuries in other ways but simple fact of the matter is, not clipping out caused those serious injuries. Not stop being an idiot and get back to the thread of giving advice on riding with flats!!

I’ve never not unclipped when I’ve stacked – it just happens doesn’t it, unless the crash was one of the comedy ‘new to spd’s sideways topples.’ How did MC stay clipped in if he crashed at any sort of speed?

Crashing and landing depends on a whole selection of things! If you are saying “it just happens” goes to show you don’t know how it happens and you don’t know how to get out of it. High speed crash, no time to realise you are going to crash, no time to respond to crash (otherwise you potentially may be able to prevent stack) so it happens. The knee accident happened on the 10% on Le Pleney, need I say more, crash at high speed on a steep down hill with a loose surface. If you are in control it’s not a crash and before you mention it yup his shoes were set to the loosest setting.

Surprised he didn’t clip out automatically then – as I say, I’ve always clipped out when I’ve stacked it, hope I always will!

float – Member

lol, not really. how is it user error if your shorts snag? i wouldnt have made them get tangled up in the shifter…

How did they get somewhere they could snag? User error.

Though o’course it’s a bit of both really- you need both the user error and the snaggy shorts.

Shortbread for 17 years of riding so had Mr MC!! Not on those two occasions, very quick loss of control meant no time to unclip, after 2nd occasion of 3 months off work he decided he give flats a go!

GW do you deliberately mis read for the sake of arguments? I am not blaming equipment for causing a crash. I didn’t have any real say in what my foot did as me and my bike cartwheeled down the pleney, but the fact my spd didn’t “just” unclip like they somehow are expected to do snapped the end off my tibia.

We all know you are a riding god who doesn’t need pads, gloves, dropper posts etc ad nauseum but some of us aren’t and do, and if you ever decide to make a positive post in a thread we might benefit from your experience. You may be a talented rider and a really nice bloke, but if so your posting history does you a disservice. I’ve recommended some pedals and explained how I learnt to ride them. Have you?

Edit for shortbread, as MC said up until these crashes I had always clipped out without thinking or effort, I am not down on SPDs and happily rode them in the PdeS for 8 consecutive years before these 2 accidents, but it would have been third time stupidly unlucky if I’d persisted with them!

After saying ” never again” to Crank bros SPD type pedals after a broken tib / fib and surgery and a 10 month recovery peridod it took me about 5 mins to get used to flats.

When riding my DH bike I find that I need to work my legs quite hard to follow the terrain, also slow the rebound down a bit to help.

How did they get somewhere they could snag? User error.

well, for me it would be doing a tuck no-hander of course 😉

Took me a very long time to make the change – maybe a year before I stopped thinking about it….probably because I learnt to ride with clipless and had totally ingrained the ‘pull with feet’ habit.

One of the best riding decisions I ever made though. Improved my riding tenfold.

I switch between flats and spds. To be honest on natural terrain I feel safer on SPDs, though I do prefer flats for jumping.

For technique I would say put in some work practicing pumping and especially bunny hops so you can get used to dragging the bike over stuff. Also I did initially prefer my saddle slightly lower to force me to put more weight through my legs on technical climbs

Took me a few months to be totally happy after many years of SPDs but I wont go back now!

loads more control as other posts have said, I do struggle if the wheel suddenly slips on a root or loose rock when climbing occasionally, but thats probably my technique.

I did stack on my first small jump as I left the bike but that was fixed by getting my weight back more!

GW you are just being an obnoxious **** now!!!

now? 😕

Why would you want an excuse for the crash?

I don’t know? why would you?

Simple if Mr MC‘s foot has[b] had[/b] unclipped when he crashed in Morzine his knee wouldn’t have twisted and hence causing that injury. Yes he may well have had just as serious injuries in other ways but simple fact of the matter is, him not clipping out caused those serious injuries.

[quote]Not stop being an idiot and get back to the thread of giving advice on riding with flats!![/quote] Okay then! 😆
My best advice for you to manage riding on flats is to stop over-thinking everything and go and ride them. it’s not like it’s difficult! most 4yr olds I know can manage it.

I didn’t have any real say in what my foot did as me and my bike cartwheeled down the pleney

Yes you did!

that is my point!

I’ve recommended some pedals and explained how I learnt to ride them. Have you?

No. and I’m not about to recommend specific pedals without knowing a lot more about the rider.
I leaned to ride flats in much the same way as any 4yr old does.

I ride a mix, but probably 75% of the tim or more on spds. I’m generally happy with V8’s and Vans for non spd duties, but I’m well aware that they’re not the ultimate crip combo. (You can’t beat a bit of old school though) The current trend is for very slim, wide, concave pedals with lots of pins, and sticky shoes. maybe try a couple of sets of used pedals from clasified till you find something you like?

Regarding ‘crashing technique’ – http://www.bikejames.com/strength/flats-vs-clipless-pedals/#comment-4292 – the response to post #13 is interesting…

“…I got dragged into this whole debate when Aaron Gwin knocked his font teeth out with that exact scenario and he blamed it 100% on the clipless pedals, mentioned how flats make you a better rider and then all hell broke loose with this debate. When one of the best riders in the world can knock his teeth out because of clipless pedals then anyone can.”

back when Gwin knocked his teeth out, in terms of timescale he would have pretty much still been a beginner to riding mtb nevermind riding mtb on spds, although one of the fastest DH racers in the world at the time, less than 2 years previously he hadn’t even ridden a DH bike.

BTW plenty BMXers have smashed their teeth out using flats too.

If you’re happy riding clipped in then stick with it, why swap? Just because it’s the current trend? Similarly if you’re happy on flats then don’t worry that you’re missing out with spds

I recently went over to clips and actually really like them even though i was happy on flats.

I then borrowed a bike yesterday with flats on it and i just couldnt get along with it, think i will stay clipped for a while now!