Been riding flats over the last few months after years of SPDs and finding it more difficult than I expected to get used to them.
Things I like
– much easier to get weight over the outside pedal – helps massively in turns
– can bail more easily
– more power for pumping
– foot out when it’s slippy
– easier to practice manuals and front wheel lifts without ending up on my @rse

Things I don’t like
– harder to sit and spin up hills
– bike dropping away on step downs – nearly hit a tree yesterday when that happened!
– coming back from rides feeling more tired than I would expect – from the extra effort needed from riding uphill

Is it just a matter of time, and getting used to the new technique? How long did it take you to get used to them? And anything you found useful to do to adapt?

When I made the transition it was just a matter of time. Took me about three months to stop launching myself over the bars on every jump and about six months before I was fully comfortable with them.

What shoes are you using?

Quite a while. A year or more before I was happy just jumping on a bike with flats and being able to ride it flat out without being nervous.

The biggest thing that made a difference was using them for a fortnight solid when on holiday. At that point it becomes completely instinctive.

I’ve swapped. I cannot say I find it any extra effort riding up hill, in fact I’m finding the opposite because it forces you to improve your pedalling technique.

The things I’m finding most difficult is pedalling in the rough, so I’m having to learn to carry my speed more. Flat out sprints are also harder.

Clips don’t give you any more power with normal riding imho. Where they do give you something is at full power, when you’re felt are flying off the pedals.

Anyway, for the time being I’ve become a flat convert, wishing I’d not switched to clip 15years ago.

I found the bike dropped away less with flat pedals if I rode with the mid foot rather than on the balls of the feet. It’s all to do with rotation from the ankles.

One thing that I was told when i switched to flats from SPD’s was that where you clip in with SPDs is with the front ball of the foot, so when you switch to flats you instinctively do the same, where as with flats your feet should sit a lot more central on the pedal, so the middle of your foot sits over the pedal axle.

V8s with 661 Freeride shoes. Supposed to be the ‘holy grail’ I gather.
And tbh I’ve not been riding that often so my ‘several months’ is about 2 rides in Lee Quarry, one in the Peaks and a couple round Surrey Hills…
I did play around with foot position on the uphills yesterday and moving the foot forward did make a difference… could feel quads working, not just calves

Supposed to be the ‘holy grail’ I gather.

i’d say you gather wrong…

Took me about a year but I moved to flats after braking my arm so confidence was also a problem.Take a quick look at way your bike is setup, it helped me to have less rebound and less dampening front and back. Remember you can’t just pull your foot up to lift the bike anymore. You need to think and plan you style a bit more at first. The best feeling is when you go biking with a large group and as you finish they say “oh you riding flats”.

I remember the days we were asking how long to convert to clips!
Funny old world as I attempt to convert to flats, nearly a year and not there yet, as teen James converts to clips for DH, two days later and he was cracking faster times than on flats. He seems to switch effortlessly. The other strange thing for me is the more gnarly it is the more I want to be clipped in – I can’t help the feeling that flats are for beach cruising!

How long it takes you depends on how much bad technique you’ve adopted while riding clipped in 😉

I switch between the two depending what kind of mood I’m in.

Probably means that I’m not very good at either.

– bike dropping away on step downs – nearly hit a tree yesterday when that happened!

I had the same thing till I was Jedi’d – your foot position is different on flats, further forward (so pedal’s nearer the instep) than on clips. Worked for me once it was sorted and now I don’t kick the bike away when I jump.

And keep those heels down.

Depends how much you think/worry about it while riding. Took a couple of rides for me to feel fine with them. Pushing up and riding down Innerleithen downhill trails quickly made me get used to them. Wouldn’t go back to SPDs now, I just prefer riding with flats. Some will get them, some won’t. Just ride which your happier with really.

Deffinately +1 jam bo’s comment.

If you gathered that information about your ‘holy grail’ of footwear & pedal combo it’s going to take you a lot longer to improve your technique !

Brooes are you surrey hills based then? I am sure I met you on the Peaks Pootle about a year ago; the one where we met at Roman Lakes.

Anyway, I personally think that there are much better pedal/shoe combinations to be had, but that’s personal preference.

The new DMR pedals look excellent, but the original V8s were never particularly grippy and the 661 shoes don’t have ‘sticky rubber’ on them, so again, they aren’t the most adhesive shoe.

You should try either a 5.10 with the stealth rubber (same compound as they use on their rock climbing shoe) or the Shimano AM40/41 with the Vibram sole. This isn’t quite a sticky as the 5.10 but it’s a lot thinner so what you lose in adhesion you gain in sensitivity.

Definately +1 jambo’s comment.

If you gathered that information about your ‘holy grail’ of footwear & pedal combo it’s going to take you a lot longer to improve your technique !

It’s 5:10’s I have, my mistake. What would the STW collective suggest as grippier pedals then? I only got the V8s to try flats out so happy to make a better investment and spend a bit more…

Greg, yes I was on the Peaks Pootle last year. Job went belly up and couldn’t find any work so moved back down to London Village (where I’ve been since early 90’s anyway. Besides, I was missing dusty Surrey Hills trails 😉

why bother, if you were happy with spd’s just switch back. 😀

Mr MC took about 18 months to get used to flats after 17 years of SpdS’s a snapped tibial plateau and torn ankle ligaments (2 seperate incidents of which the injuries were as a result of unclipping). One thing I know he does say is weird is you need to drop your seat a little bit compared to Spd’s as you need to be able to push your feet through the pedals more to keep them on bumpy downhills!!?? I think…. maybe I’ll just get him to post instead rather than talk gobbledygook!

I went from SPDs to flats after getting pissed off constantly trying to clip in while sessioning jumps. Went you, bought the straitline pedals and 5:10s, and it took me about five minutes to feel comfortable. Ended up ditching them on the other bikes not soon after.

What would the STW collective suggest as grippier pedals then

Pretty much anything other than the old DMR V8s 😛 You’re spoilt for choice really. If you’re hard on pedals (clanking them over rocks etc) then I would avoid any design that has a thin axle as the bearings will get crucified. Also avoid designs were the pins can’t be removed easily if they get bent.

The new DMR Vaults looks excellent and are really light. I love my Burgtecs but they silly money if you can’t justify the price by them being nigh on indestructible.

dont worry about footwear or pedals just ride.

the more you ride the more you will get used to it.

bend your knees!

i`ve been riding clips for hte last year and i have all sorts of problems when i swap back o flats untill i forget what pedals i have. normally its down to poor technique you get because its easy to be lazy riding clips.

i’ve to crack confidence in clips in the wet yet. i keep thinking i`m going to get a front wheel washout.

battered nike 6.o`s with holes in the soles and gusset slim jims here. sticky soles and mega grippy pedals are not necessary.

I’m finding it easier than I thought. I switched about 3 months ago but I do ride off road to work and back everyday so I’m spending plenty of time with them. Although the terrain is very tame the bike is rigid so the ride is a lot rougher than it would be with suspension. I’m just using very cheap pedals that came with my Boardman and some old Specialized Posi Trac shoes a friend gave me. Overall I’m really happy to have switched as I’ve never been a confident or skilled rider and the knowledge that I can put a foot down without thinking about it means I’m enjoying the riding more. I’ve also found the ability to move my foot around on the pedal a great help when riding at slower speeds and manoeuvring the bike.
In the spring I’ll by some better pedals and shoes for my cross country hardtail and see how I get on for longer rides. If I don’t get on with them then I’ll go back to spd’s on that bike and put the better pedals on the rigid bike as I’ll be sticking with flats on that bike.

(aka Mr MC).

forced change as MC says (crashed in morzine and the top of my tibia gave way before the spd did 😯 ). Took about 18 months to fully gel but now I wouldnt go back. I prefer softer soled shoes so I can feel the pedal (so rules out the ubiqitious and highly (or over) rated five ten) and never suffer fatigue or foot pain as a result (alternate between waffle soled Vans and shimano AM40s).

I found I needed to drop the saddle a bit, as you want to ride heels-down with knees slightly bent to load the pedals, and with your foot further forward on the pedal (so ball of foot ahead of axle, instep over axle) compared to SPDs. Before I got a grip of this I had routine foot-leaving-pedal incidents on drop offs etc (never resulting in a crash just ooh f— moments) but I very very rarely lose a foot now. My riding is smoother now as both my arms and legs let the bike float beneath me, whereas on SPDs I probably “stood” on the pedals more with stiffer legs.

Oddly I now feel disconnected on SPDs due to the float. And I get a lot of use out of a dropper post (got a GD with the 1″ intermediate drop which I ride in whenever the trails is techy or rolling, just use fully up for fireroads and climbs).

edit; didnt rate DMR v8/V12s. I have kona wah wahs (aka superstar nano aka nukeproof proton/neutron aka HT Industries and a few other rebrands) on one bike but my fave is the easton flatboy. Should be called the fatboy as its about twice the weight of some pedals, not sure if it is pin position, concavity of body or what but they are noticeably better than other flats I’ve used.

i had my third ride on flats yesterday,have ridden about 15 hrs now on flats in 3 weeks, i put some podiums on my heckler and nukeproof protons on my Evil sov, absolutley love riding with them, I also feel more connected with the bike which i also find rather odd, one of my mates is giving me help as he has always ridden flats, lost the pedal only once yesterday on a short log drop due to being on the balls of my feet again, i know what i have done straight away and correct immediately, using sam hills 5.10 which are incredibly warm and comfy too,

best thing i have ever done riding wise, when i put the ped’s on a few weeks back i spent a few mins a day practicing bunny hops etc, and me and my mate always spend the ride home form the woods practicing our wheelies, oh i’m 43 and have been riding SPD’s for 12 yrs 😀

I recently tried flats for the second time. The first time I just used running trainers and hated it. This time I bought some second hand AM41 off here and some cheap V8s.

Loved it – felt much more fun and engaging on the downs but harder on the ups and not as comfortable. Took about 2 hours to get used to but don’t feel as confident on jumps etc. I think I’ll continue to use both.

(aka Mr MC).

forced change as MC says (crashed in morzine and the top of my tibia gave way before the spd did ).
What makes you think switching pedals will stop you getting injured? a flat pedal smashed my foot to pieces (smashed the big bone and every small bone further down dislocated) in a silly crash/slide out that wen’t wrong in Les Gets, 8months in plaster with pins/bolts etc. followed by a few years physio and I still limp/ache almost ten years on.

took me one very wet/muddy DH race run to comfortably go back to Flats full time after a few years racing XC (then DH) clipped in. (I still do clip in on my roadbike). But I learned pretty much every riding skill I posess to this day back before SPDs were invented.
Did none of you ever have any fun jumping etc. on your bikes as kids?

GW, Mr MC isn’t saying that flat pedals will prevent injury, but it will further prevent the types of injuries he severed which resulted in surgery, both of his serious crashes were as a result of not clipping out. he’s already had other injuries from flat such as shinned shins but body armour solves that problem.

Supposed to be the ‘holy grail’ I gather.

i’d say you gather wrong…

+1

Being an old f*rt, I’ve gone through loads of pedal/shoe combos over the years (both SPD/ATAC and flats). Used to ride SPD/ATACs all the time, then following knee surgery, went to flats, and SPDs for longer rides – now, I’m just too lazy to swap pedals all the time, so I ride flats 100%.

Personally, I find the V8’s in particular are too free-spinning, and they’re quite a tall pedal. Something like Kona wah wah/Superstar Nano’s or similar are (IMO) a far better flatties – to me, they feel more secure and, possibly because the sole of the shoe is closer to the axle, there seems to be less pedal rotation when in the air, and they’re easier to do the ‘scoop’ technique with. If your foot does bounce off nano/wahwah-type momentarily, the pedal won’t tend to spin out on you like V8/12’s.

I guess it’s a bit difficult knowing whether to bother spending more on new pedals and shoes, but IMO V8/12’s aren’t the easiest flat pedal to learn flattie technique on.

As far as technique goes, a lot of what people have already said re: foot position and dropping heels is good.

Again, only my opinion, but I think if you can perservere and master the bunnyhop on flats, you won’t go far wrong. The scooping your foot technique is demo’d by Doddy [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAem3L7Rlpk[/video]

both of his serious crashes were as a result of not clipping out.

Care to explain how crashes are caused by not clipping out?

that (above) is to date my worst injury to date but the crash was caused by poor judgement and bad luck, I couldn’t possibly blame any bike part. thinking I could lay the bike over and land in a slide to slow me after launching a berm wasn’t too outlandish an idea, stopping dead at 90deg instead of sliding was simply unlucky.

Lurking (till now) with interest – left wrist still recovering from being plated and screwed a fortnight ago, mainly because of not unclipping when falling off. AM41’s already ordered for when I’m back riding again, I’ve got some old V8’s that I’ll put back on the bike…I used to be happy with them years ago.

Nice bunnyhop video – that’s the real reason I’ve posted, to bookmark this thread.

EDIT: GW – to stick my nose in, IME being clipped didn’t cause my crash, but it meant I didn’t unclip in time to not take all my substantial weight on my left hand/wrist. I’m pretty sure if i hadn’t been clipped in I’d have got a foot down and at least ‘spread the load’.

Each to their own here but I didnt get flats at all.. It was my most miserable 4 months of riding, enough to almost pack it it. Mashed shins, frustration, walking down stuff I would otherwise have ridden and basically being completely crap.

If people are saying a year to crack it, well… sorry but its not for me. Back on clips and enjoying my riding again. Can do all the stuff flats riders can do, I dont care about the lazy tech tag, I’m back to enjoying my riding.

Skills teaching, I agree, flats probably the way to go.

Quite a few dh pro riders are clipped on platform pedals, are they tech slackers too?

I have a set of DMR V12’s 4 rides old for sale.. red in colour if your interested.. will post out for xmas…

I can honestly say I’ve never had any major problems switching between pedal types. I spent the first 20-odd yearsof my life on ‘flats’ that were just ‘pedals’ becasue that’s all there was. Then, with MTBs I started on clips mand straps and learned to bunnyhop, then I went to SPD, then back to flats. I had a short time working out how to bunnyhop on flats, but once I worked it out I can hop higer on flats than SPDs. These days I use both about 50/50. I tour and commute on flats, but my 456 has SPDs 99% of the time, as does my SS. The Pitch wears V8s.

rickmeister – some can take 12-18 months some don’t. Took me a few rides and found I just liked.

Quite a few dh pro riders are clipped on platform pedals, are they tech slackers too?

Nope, that’s just bollocks. Some people like being clipped in, some like flats. Pretty simple. I wouldn’t say either was better than the other, just what your prefer to ride with. I don’t mean you, but sometimes feel some riders look at their riding style/bikes/parts waaaaay to seriously on here and completely over analysis it all!

you dont scoop! 🙂

I spent the first 20-odd yearsof my life on ‘flats’ that were just ‘pedals’ becasue that’s all there was.

Hee hee, glad it’s not just me that remembers that – oh, MTBing with toestrap pedals aswell 😀 I saw a couple of old dudes riding down ‘The Beast of Hope X’ a few months back, and they were in the absolute spirit of ‘keeping it real’…fully rigid 1980’s MTB’s complete with toestraps and pannier racks – really took me back – had to smile though, as their bikes sounded like a couple of skip fulls of spanners being dragged down a hill as they rode past 🙂

I somehow felt very unworthy sat there on my 140 full sus though 😆

“you dont scoop! “

Yeah, I ride flats & I don’t think I’d be ‘scooping’ if I was going off a drop. Not sure if I’m doing the right thing, but I just kind of stay neutral when I catch a little bit of air (tho I think I’m pushing the soles of my feet kind of back and down onto the pedals to keep ’em on the pins – er…that’s what I think I’m doing anyway! (by accident rather than design) 🙂

Any tips on staying stuck on flatties when airborne would be much appreciated though 😀

pushing back??? you mean drop heals and push forwards with your soles ? 🙂

IMHO Time taken to get used to it is an individual thing. I agree with the loosing the bike in the air more, had to drop the seat a tad and probably changed my riding style (have a reverb now which also allows you to get the seat higher for pedaly bits) . I didn’t think the performance hit was noticeable but I do feel that I can’t drop my heals and stretch my legs as far when I’m on longer rides.

pushing back??? you mean drop heals and push forwards with your soles ?

err…yeah, that’s what I meant 😉 :))

Seriously though, that does make sense. I’m quite a good ‘heel dropper’ normally (or so I’ve been told), so maybe that’s what I’m doing…hmmm. Never really had a feet bouncing off pedals problem with flats, & I don’t normally wear 5.10’s, so guess it must be down to keeping heels down. Now, this is seriously temptin’ fate, but the only gashed shins I’ve had in the last two or three years regular flattie riding have been when I’ve been lounging around on the bike at tea stops! (I’m guaranteed to shim myself on the next ride now eh?! 😀 )