I have just switched to flats following a trip to the alps that made me feel a little uncomfortable being clipped in! Never ridden flats before off road so not sure what i should be doing.

For climbing should I just pedal normally and try scoop/hook my legs up as the come back up, toes slightly downward? The aim would be to get a spinning motion rather than just mashing the pedals. Is that the right idea?

Downhill- heels down, feet forward relative to clips. I kept thinking I had my heels down but when I looked my feet seemed flat. It is a really exaggerated action? On the rougher stuff I could feel my feet unweighting slightly and starting to come off the pedals, any ideas what I could be doing wrong?

For drops, small, and trying to get the bike to float/hop over obstacles I could definitely feel my feet coming off the pedals, luckily they always landed back safely. I guess I am trying to lift the bike off the ground with my feet. I think I understand the theory of manualling (although I cannot actually do it) the bike, push the bike forwards and away/up trying to pivot round the bb/cranks using both my arms and feet. If I manage that properly will my feet stay on the pedals?

Is the above right or have I got it completely wrong? Any tips?

I have got 5.10s and superstar pedals so the kit is okay it is just my technique that need sorting out!

the axel of the pedal should be just behind the ball of your big toe.
heels down pedaling

Do what feels right, after a few weeks you'll get used to it and learn what works for yourself. I didn't make any conscious changes to the way I rode, not sure if any tips would have helped but I dont loose my footing very often (although theres a nice deep gash on my shin from Sunday!)

I ride with my feet in the same position cliped or on flats.

deffo not the same position as spds!

Jedi's right. I changed back to flats about 6 months ago, after a couple of hairy moments on some jumps. Took a few days to get used to it, and a bit longer to get technique right. I use the same set up as you – 5.10's and Nano flats. Getting over jumps was a bit sketchy at first and I kinda had to make a conscious effort to think of my feet, but it's been well worth it. Don't really miss spd's on xc rides either. Shouldn't be too long and you'll feel alright on them. Sorry if that doesn't help much.

The aim would be to get a spinning motion rather than just mashing the pedals. Is that the right idea?

the difference is entirely psychological. The pedals are physically constrained to go in a circle (relative to the BB) and so long as your foot doesn't slip, whatever you think you are doing doesn't matter

Is the above right or have I got it completely wrong? Any tips?

Left foot = Left pedal
Right foot = Right pedal

Are you working on the theory before you actually try using them?

😮

Yeah, don't try an hop the same as with spds, a hop on flats is all about getting the front end up first, get this up nice and high then throw your weight forward, you are not pulling the back end up!

Practice by trying to lift your rear wheel by just throwing you weight forward.

For manuals, I have found a little pedal to get the front end up high helps you find the balance point, feather the bake brake a bit too.

Flats rule! ( I am an ex bmxer, so love em!)

Thanks for the replies. I have tried them once but i was all over the place. Sounds like it will just take time…

I have just gone to flats and love it!

For manuals, I have found a little pedal to get the front end up high

Then your not manualling….

Another thing you really need to learn (and quickly) is when it's best not to pedal but to pump. There a couple of reasons for this.

The first reason is to skill; it is a lot harder to put in 'power strokes' with flat pedals over rough ground; your feet are more likely to get bumped off and you'll possibly loose more speed than you really gain. Better to learn how to guide the bike over roots, rocks etc, learn to 'gap' these rather than slam them and look for little dips and hollows that you can 'get a pump off'. If you're not sure what that means, let us know. Pumping is a hugely rewarding experience and a good rider can often keep up with a less skilled rider down a run without having to pedal simply because they can add speed from the contour of the trail. It's also a lot less tiring.

The second reason is to personal saftey; if you ground a pedal on the floor while pedaling, the chances are you're going down hard. Not only that, but the first thing you'll know about it is when you get a mouthfull of dirt (and if you're really unlucky teeth as well). Hitting you pedals is not so much of a problem, but if you ground out hard, then you come off and because you're not expecting it to happen, you tend to go down head first.

Fortunately, you only tend to make this mistake once or twice before learning to back off pedaling in 50/50 situaitons!

(Mr MC posting)

mrl, I'm in the same boat as you after umpteen years of riding spds I moved to flatties after a failing-to-unclip on the Pleney DH 10% line gave me this memento 😯 🙁

I am still adjusting to it and it is "natural" to put the ball of my foot over the spindle, but clear that that doesnt actually work. Have turned into a total wuss; trying to hop my 160mm Nomad I basically just extend the suspension 🙄 though on my 456 its more obvious my technique is actually improving.

Jedi and others cheers for the fundamental pointers.

that you can 'get a pump off'. If you're not sure what that means, let us know.

I have no idea what it means!

I followed Jedi's advice about pedal and foot position when putting my flats back on last winter. It feels more secure and I'm still on flats. I'm not so disciplined about keeping my heels down though. Must try harder.

Weirdly, I think using SPDs really improved my flat pedalling technique. I still get smoother power from SPDs but the difference is less marked than it was.

For whats it's worth…here's my two pennies worth 😉

I find that if I don't pump the rear end properly over jumps drops etc. then my feet drift above the pedals whilst i'm in the air and then I have to hope i find them when i land…but if i pump properly then the bike moves up into me when i'm in the air which means my feet maintain contact with my pedals at all times. So to sum up; if you can get pumping sorted then ur pedals should stay glued to ur feet 🙂

ps. – if ur not sure on pumping technique mention it and i'm sure someone will explain 😉

that you can 'get a pump off'. If you're not sure what that means, let us know.

I have no idea what it means!

Think of pumping as working the back sides of the bumps. That period where naturally the bike will go light and the suspension will extend. Instead of floating over these bits of terrain, stretch down into them by extending legs(thus keeping good pedal contact) and arms and you will get a boost of speed, essentially using gravity and body position to work/milk the transition. It can be great fun and makes you look at the trail in a new light, the up ramps and lips can be sucked up in preparation for working the back side of the bump. With the good contact and traction it is a nice place to throw in a few little carves too…

I use flats and find that quite often my feet leave the pedals and then I have to pray to the trail fairies that they get back on.

I've never heard about the pumping thing, sounds interesting.

SPDs are the Devil's work, hateful things. You have made a wise choice.

I was horrified a few weeks ago when I made the change to flats. (been doing this 3 years now and only ever clipped in)

like the op, my feet got bounced off all the time in the rough stuff and It felt like the bike is falling away from me on every lip.

After a few weeks, it is starting to make sense, but I have nowhere near the same level of confidence (and it wasnt that high before)

To clarify, where should my foot be?. I guess forward of the SPD position is the answer, but it feels just wrong

When I changed from SPDs to flats, I had the same problem of my feet bouncing off the pedals. Feet over pedal centrally and dropping heels (for DH) are important, but I found that I also have to ride with the saddle lower than I was used to, maybe 1-2" lower for general trail riding. You can't ride with your legs at full extension and still expect your feet to keep pedal contact when you hit a big bump. Your legs have to do some of the suspension work.

As someone who has never ridden clipped-in, do those who have changed to flats think clipped-in is a mistaken way to ride? Not trolling, just interested.

I have just switched to flats following a trip to the alps that made me feel a little uncomfortable being clipped in

Same happened to me three years ago. Got flats on, never looked back at SPD's.

As everyone, put your foot on the pedals in a similar position to where it was with SPD's, regarding where the pressure is applied through the foot, on that big pad bit behind the big toes, not in the bit that goes up, whatever that bit is called and obviously not your heel.

I guess you use the bit of your foot that is used to taking hits (when walking and running) and pressure, when standing etc.

You won't regret your move to flats, especially with 5.10's.

As someone who has never ridden clipped-in, do those who have changed to flats think clipped-in is a mistaken way to ride? Not trolling, just interested.

No, horses for courses. SPDs for XC where power is a greater priority; flats for technical riding, where balance and safety is a priority. But priorities are personal, everyone makes their own decision based on their own priorities and experiences.

I changed to flats when I started riding harder DH trails, because my skills aren't good enough to feel safe on SPDs and I'm less interested in the climb or distance aspects. But I still miss SPDs when I get to a technical rooty uphill section or spin up a fireroad. I still have my SPDs in the garage ready to go back on the bike if the trail warranted it.

You won't regret your move to flats, especially with 5.10's.

Dum sideline question: what are 5.10's? What makes them so good?

Joolz

I don't get the pedals different from spds to flats. I'm accustomed to spds, on my flats I have my feet in the same position and going heels down on anything other than rocky sections gives me huge knee ache. My spindle goes under my ball of my foot with both.

The aim would be to get a spinning motion rather than just mashing the pedals. Is that the right idea?

That is a good idea, whichever pedals you are using. If you only press down at the front of the stroke you are missing the over the top bit and the through the bottom bit. If you visualise one foot always chasing and helping the other (which, in turn, is helping the first one!) you'll smooth things out a bit.

Dum sideline question: what are 5.10's? What makes them so good?

Joolz

5.10s are a brand of shoe. They make shoes with a super sticky sole for riding flats. They also have inners made from cardboard and soak up so much water they become massive swing weights on the end of your legs! In dry conditions for the first few rides before they start falling apart they are great though.

A good point about saddle dropping. Forgetting to drop my saddle like normal recently contributed to losing control of the bike and crashing. Only by dropping can I get full suspension from my legs and this is deffo what is keeping traction between my feet and the pedals.

I think flats teach you good technique for stuff like bunnyhops and manuals. Rely on spds and all sorts can and will go wrong.

Got used to spds now but still have no gripe with decent flatties.

I ride flats after having no confidence using spds, I actually feel I have more power with flats so don't miss the benefits you can get with spd's i.e being more at one with the bike, no slipping off the peals extra power.

I use 5 10's and use a motion on the down stroke much like scraping muck off your shoe, slightly more exaggerated on steeper climbs. If you keep your heels down on steep techie descents the your feet should stay firmly planted on the pedals.

As someone who has never ridden clipped-in, do those who have changed to flats think clipped-in is a mistaken way to ride? Not trolling, just interested.

i have a feeling that the really talented riders are the ones who can ride both proficiently.

Contemplating giving flats a try again after ~3 years with spds. Not because I don't like spds but because I think they can make you lazy on technique and some use of flats again could be beneficial.

To clarify what people have said about foot position, if the axle should be behind your big toe, your foot should be further back than with spds. Correct? So your more riding on your toes than your foot?

I find the foot rolls the pedal forward when going up-hill. I am now considering both foot further forward but also heals down more as I keep losing my footing.

To clarify what people have said about foot position, if the axle should be behind your big toe, your foot should be further back than with spds. Correct? So your more riding on your toes than your foot?

Foot further forward with flats is the convention. Axle behind the ball of your big toe (ie half way to the instep). A lot of people like their spd cleats this far back too – most shoes don't allow much fore/aft movement, but the rearmost position gets more of your foot over the axle. Having said that, mine are in the "normal" position.

check this out

http://www.bikejames.com/cardio-training/top-3-clipless-pedal-myths/

We should heed that. It's on the internet. So it must be true. 😕

I think it is stretching a point to suggest that there is no "power" advantage – that statement is only true of outright power (as opposed to efficiency or some other measure of effort vs result) – and even then I'm dubious. You don't see many track riders doing without being clipped in.

Even the confidence building "advantage" of flats can be looked at in another way – you could make a logical argument that being on flats encourages you to lose commitment, whereas in some situations you might be more likely to look up and keep on riding through if you're clipped in.

I think the most sensible way of looking at it is just purely preference – if you like flats then ride them.

well for DH its a dilema
steve peat, greg minaar, the athertons, gracia all on clipless
but hill, kovarik and plenty otehrs on flats

for xc id always go clipped

but im toying with flats for DH, ive just bought some nanotechs and considering some five ten freeriders

i just worry that on rough courses my feet will bounce off , especially landing big jumps, which i tend to do with little finesse!,
ill be taking my new pedals un the dh uplift at cwmdown this weekend and have a few runs clipped in and not to see how it feels

At least you can walk around without sounding like a tap dancer

learn to ride both. choose what works for you.

I ended up solely on flats because its a pain when you forget which pedals are on the bike and forget to bring the right shoes.

and foot out, flat out is way cooler…