I want to sort out an issue I have with my Orange Five 29’er, namely peddle strikes. I seem to suffer these a lot, especially on rocky climbing sections. Now I understand that some of this is just I going happen and some of this is down to my technique but I do feel like on this bike the problem is exaggerated due to the single pivot design and shock tune. BB is approx 340mm which I don’t believ is stupid low but combine this with the shock that blows through the mid stroke very quickly and this is where I start getting my problem I believe. I was thinking about getting some slightly shorter cranks but that just seems the wrong way to fix this.

Currently I have a Fox CTD BV shock on the bike which does seem to blow through the mid stroke very quickly. It ramps up well though and I never bottom out. I thought I would try a volume reducer as a cheap fix but looking inside it already had the largest one fitted, bugger.

I was thinking then that I should either get it Push tuned via TF or get a new shock altogether. Obviously the Push tuning will be cheaper but I’m not sure if this is just a plaster on a poor shock design? Or will it resolve the issue and let the shock shine?

The new shock option is in my head as I think suspension tech has moved on a lot in the last few years so instead of fixing an old shock, would I get a better result with something new? Thinking something with remote damping would be nice to have. The new Fox X2 looks overkill for my needs! But I like the look of the Float X. CC get very good reviews and feedback but I keep hearing quality and reliability is an issue? RS Monarch RC3+ looks similar to the Fox Float X but a fair few quid cheaper. This is as far as I’ve got so far, any suggestions, advice?

As the Orange is a single pivot and therefore very linear in its travel, can you specify a bike specific tune when buying a new shock? Or do you just get off the shelf and then have to go back to someone like TF? I assume Mojo can do this for Fox shocks when supplying?

Thoughts / suggestions on how to resolve

Best shock I had on my 5 was a VanR with Ti spring TF Tuned held the bike up nicely, Tf Tuned Float RP23 was good but the Van was so much better at everything.

Go for a push tune from tftuned. Made a huge difference to the RP23 on my 5.

You need more high speed compression damping. Does switching to trail mode not help?

I have just the shock for you.Custom tuned for a five as well.
See my for sale add Andy.

Hmm, never consider a coil shock before. I assume the advantage is spring is linear compared to an air shock so more control? Also I understand it suits the DH boys as it doesn’t suffer from heat issues like an air shock, not really a consideration for me. Obviously the big downsides are weight and the faff of getting the right spring?

My question would be, have modern air shocks caught up now? Is it worth the weight penalty compared to the latest air shock tech?

@inverjoe, in what way did the push tune help? Again I’m assuming that it helps with the mid stroke and ramp up?

@Rickon, switching modes doesn’t help a lot as its already blown through a lot of the mid stroke with just general riding.

My question would be, have modern air shocks caught up now? Is it worth the weight penalty compared to the latest air shock tech?

Caught and probably exceeded, get the right tune and setup and the it will work. Probably a good conversation with a good tuner is the next step.

@andyjh, from the service report they sent back, they replaced some of the internals with the PUSH upgrade and increased the blow-off pressure of the platform, which removes the wallowing in the mid stroke.
It feels much firmer when climbing and now I can run it fully open on the descents, whereas before it was way to soft in mid stroke, even with a high pressure,
Never had a problem with ramping up though… I had the largest volume reducer fitted…

float X2 won’t fit as they don’t do it in your size.

Float X will probably still give you the same mid stroke issue as the float.

CC don’t have any reliablity issues that I know of. The inline or the DB air CS are great shocks.

Pedal less

CC don’t have any reliablity issues that I know of. The inline or the DB air CS are great shocks.

The dbinline is a disaster, mine lasted 3 rides. There’s loads of threads with the same issues, Cane Creek publicly apologised on someone’s blog about the issues with the inline, and said they’d fix it.

It’s a polarising shock, some love it, others hate it.

The people I see that are stuck on coils are generally larger gentlemen.

Are you sure this isn’t just technique? I pedal strike climbing all the time on my Zesty if I’ve been riding hardtails and fattys too much as I forget the back end will compress and don’t half-crank when I should.

The CCDB inline is only meant for bikes up to about 140 I think. It’s the same functionally as the main CCDB air but more compact and shorter. Both are apparently exquisite shocks but expensive. And everyone I know with one has followed the published setup for their frame and then never touched the settings again, making the OTF tunability a bit wasted…

I’m interested in this too with my 5 29 as I seen to be having more pedal strikes than any other bike I’ve had.

I run mine in trail mode all the time.

The dbinline is a disaster, mine lasted 3 rides

thats unlucky – mine has been fine and its an early model. most issues have been from spesh bikes with that stupid yolk that puts too much side pressure on the shaft. Same thing happens with other shocks. The other issue was a batch of poor bladders which has now been sorted. They are not the only company to have teething issues with new products.

The CCDB inline is only meant for bikes up to about 140 I think.

not really true given they make the shock in 216×63 and make a fitment for the spesh enduro. Its marketing schpeal so they buy the DB air instead.

And everyone I know with one has followed the published setup for their frame and then never touched the settings again, making the OTF tunability a bit wasted…

I change mine depending on the trail I ride

I’m pretty sure coil shocks work best on single pivots having tried someones old single.
A fox air shock would blow thru try volume reducers first to set the spring correctly.

If and only if you can afford and want to stay with air get a ccdb air as anyone will tell you for improving bob on singles.

Ok thanks for all the feedback on this. Seems like a conversation with TF Tuned is probably in order to see if their tune on my existing shock is worthwhile doing or changing shock altogether. First option will obviously be the cheapest and hopefully will sort the issue.

Out of the air shocks it seems that most people are advising the CCDB Air CS as the best. Again I will talk to TF about this and see if in their experience it pairs well with the Five. I have read some blogs from Orange with them using the CCDB coil with great effect on the Five so will be interesting to see how the Air works in comparison.

And yes, some of this is technique but as Renton all confirms, it happens more on this bike then any other i’ve owned. Personally I think its a bad combination of the single pivot and Fox shock, not much wrong with either but together they are not ideal.

they were always sold in that set up but yes I seem to pedal strike more on this than other bikes

Shorter cranks?

I was thinking about shorter cranks but it feels like a bodge to compensate for the issue

switching modes doesn’t help a lot as its already blown through a lot of the mid stroke with just general riding.

It should do, as it’s upping the high speed compression damping. That’s exactly what TFT tuned with do for you (plus a few other bits to even it out with lo and hi speed rebound).

High Speed compression is what stops bottoming out, as does reducing the air volume, and increasing the amount of air in the shock.

What happens if you just left the shock in trail mode for descents? And what happens if you put more air in the shock?

What’s your PSI at the moment? And how much do you weight fully kitted?

The other option is to get a Corset – which really does help with the bottoming out.

Ah, thanks for that

I’ve settled on about 170psi currently and I weight about 90kg fully kitted

The shock has already got the largest volume reducer fitted, not sure if that’s a Orange specific tune of if the previous owner fitted this?

I did try switching to Climb mode and adding another 10psi last time I tackled the climb out of Skyline @ Afan. this was a vast improvement and I had far less peddle strikes on the way up. Obviously had to run with increased pressure for the rest of the day but I can’t say that was a problem.

170 seems a bit low… TF set my shock for me (95Kg) and recomended that run i run it at 220. Droped it to 210 since losing some insulation…

I’ll re-check with kit on and make sure I haven’t got this wrong.

What sag level do you run? Mojo advised me about 30% which is why I ended up at 170psi I think

210 psi gives me 25% sag. This is on a 26″ bike, dont think it’ll make much difference though.

think i run about 170- psi but I am only 65 kg

You can run generally between 15-30% sag, depending on how plush you want the bike to ride. However, if you run more sag you’ll want more high speed compression damping, or less air volume so it ramps up.

I’d try upping your pressure to 210 and see how it feels. You’ll probably need to add a click of two of rebound damping too, to stop the bike bucking.

Might be worth also having a chat with Dave at RSF Suspension as well, just to see what he’s view on this is? Steve

Ccdb air cs running at 30% sag, 170mm crank arms and offset bushes and angleset so a lower than standard bb. No issues with pedal strikes. I am used to a low bb but I do like a technical climb – all on a retro old hat 26er Five though so no direct comparison.
Personally in your position I’d try the vorsprung corset as I believe it allows you to run more pressure without losing small bump compliance, also giving more mid stroke support. Also 170mm cranks if you’re on 175’s.

Need to check my psi to make sure I’ve remembered the setting right but needless to say I will re-check with kit on and get the sag right to see where that brings me. Assuming it’s in the 210 region as suggested I’ll also add compression as you suggest Rickon, thanks.

Had thought about the Corset in the past so I’ll add that onto my list of things to discuss with TF during the week. Sounds like it will be a good next step though.

Hi Steve 🙂 Not sure if Dave tuned the shock or not as there’s no sticker to indicate that he did. Might be how the volume reducer got in there though?

Thanks for the feedback stevede. Wow, that Five is going to be DH level slack with both angleset and offset bushes on a bike that’s already fairly slack! Corset seems like a good way to go first before thinking about tuning then as I can do this myself. Should be a good setup combined with the higher pressure. Yes I’m on 175 cranks so will try a set of 170’s.

CCDB seems like the ideal shock replacement from all the reading I’ve done today. Not too much info re the inline version as most is about either the coil or air, guess the bike is old now and the inline is the latest shock so not many people fitting to Five’s.

If you do go down the replacement route then the Ccdb air cs on my five is superb, personally I’d steer clear of the inline as they seem a bit hit and miss reliability wise (I have a mate who killed 2 in rapid succession before replacing with something else). And yes my Five is very slack (64deg!!!), I love it on the downs and it’s bearable on the climbs so ideal for my riding. I’d love to try the Five 29 though, the one in the classifieds keeps catching my eye but I must resist!

They are a rare beast now Steve so you might want to try one whilst you can 🙂

Right, something has gone horribly wrong with my shock setup. Just checked and pressure was at 150psi and rebound was wound complete out i.e. fastest! No idea if I was having a brain freeze or something but at least this thread has got me to re-check everything.

I’ve put 210psi in there now and that gives me just under 20% sag but not with riding gear on so should be about right. Wound rebound right in, or at least tried to as it was very stiff so I think the shock needs a service anyway! Eventually got it all the way in and then backed out about four clicks as a starting point.

Now just need some time to try it out again, might have to do some night riding over the local woods.

Thanks all

CCDB air CS on 5 27.5..
Haven’t had to touch it since I fitted it..
Only thing I did play with was running a lower pressure than the 200psi TF told me to use with their tune.
Noticed that I never used all or even 75% of the travel..
170 psi got me using about 75% travel but it felt to soft on the rear end..so its back at 200psi

is it a standard air can you have? might need the XV can

Due to being designed around a regressive leverage ratio (leverage ratio increases as it moves through its travel), a progressive air shock would be best suited.

I’d be looking at ccdb air or Fox X2 if its available in your length.

Finally got a chance to try the bike with higher air pressure this last weekend. Although I couldn’t find any technical climbs to play on but the bike did feel better and I noticed it wasn’t blowing through the travel under normal riding, it was however able to use the travel when landing jumps etc I’m running the pressure at 210psi now and that’s giving me about 20% sag.

Next step is to get the shock serviced and I’ll explore upgrading the can to the new high volume version. Still intrigued about having it push tuned by TF but by the time you do this, new air can and service, a new shock isn’t much more!

The Fox X2 doesn’t come in the correct size for the Five (190×53) and the CCDB Inline seems to have a lot of reliability issues so either the CCDB air cs or Fox X would be on my wish list.

Thanks for the advice 🙂

I’m going through this right now with my Alpine 160 2014 (26er). It’s just come back from Mojo. Rode it in the dark in a small woods last night after picking it from the LBS and I tried a few adjustments after thinking about how it felt.

My initial feeling was that the front was harsher and the rear was bucking me off small drops.

I’ve had FIT4 installed on the 34 Factory with the 22 clicks of compression adjustment. I have a PUSH Air Volume kit ready to install if needed but testing it first with just the FIT4. I ran 65PSI with the 2013 CTD damper but I’m running 60PSI now because I couldn’t bottom out 65PSI last night. Aiming for 30% sag at the front.

At the rear I had a Factory Float CTD 2014 before (and didn’t know which Volume Reducer was in but they sent the old can and it back which is handy so I can check and maybe sling it if I can’t get the feel I want – looks small). It now has the biggest volume reducer in and the new EVOL air can. Pressure before was 180PSI and that’s what I’ve put in now to get 30% sag (going on the theory that reducing the volume + having more negative air would about equal out the change). The EVOL can really does reduce the force necessary to get it moving. I’ve been unable to bottom it out though so I’m going to guess I need to come down a Volume Reducer however, after reading above I’ll add a click or two of Rebound and give it a ride tonight if I can. It feels better over small chattery stuff though.

I’m around 75kg kitted up.

What’s really annoying is my Five S 2013 has the bottom end suspension on it but I can’t fault it one bit! Compared to the feeling I have with my Alpine with all it’s really expensive Factory bling. Float CTD Evolution + RS Sektor. No mods. Takes small bumps better and big hits better than the Alpine ever has. It’s just a bit of luck I reckon but that Five is awesome. Got it 2nd hand from eBay!

I’m really hoping I get get the Alpine dialled now it has all the 2016 stuff on it and I’ve got a lot more adjustments than I had before. I think it’s going to take some patience though.

I may well just really like a linear suspension and everyone is recommending to add some progression and it might not be suiting me. I know I need to ride it properly first and get a feel for the changes. At leat now I’ve got all the adjustments I wanted.

My Alpine 160 was much improved by a volume reducing insert. Cured the mid-stroke blow through and made the damping particularly the propedal work better (I suspect because it was in the right part of the stroke).

Cheap(ish) to try it.

I am a larger gentleman.

Good to know, thanks @igm. I’m just going to experiment like mad with it and dial it in if I can.

I can feel that it’s ramping up much more than before. The initial stroke is very supple now. Then there’s a mid part that is firmer and then I can’t manage to get the last 5-6mm of travel on the drive. I’ll have to see if I can get it on a 4ft drop at the weekend if I can get out to somewhere decent.

It’s my first proper bike after getting myself semi fit on a beginner FS bike for a year then I bought the Alpine in the 26 inch blow out sale last November and I’ve raced it all this year and it’s brought on my riding no end so it’s time to get it dialled in properly for me now.

The changes Mojo have made means it’s like having a completely new bike. Which is nice because it keeps things interesting. I’m determined to keep the 26 inch bikes I’ve invested in for this next season at least. Then I may think about picking up the not invented yet but definitely the fastest size ever 28.2 inch wheeled bike. 😉

I had a Five with a CCDB set up by TFTuned – it was flipping immense. Compared to the CTD that I took off, it not only descended better but climbed so much better too. It also got ride of a lot of the noise you get with a five. I played about a lot with pressures and tuned on the CTD and it never performed even close to the CCDB, the only thing I ever did on the Cane creek was to go up a spring as I found I was riding more aggressive stuff and it was a bit soft with the original.

I’ve also found similar on the ASR-7 I had – the air shock was utter bobbins (RP23), either too soft or too hard and replaced it with a coil fox and it was much better.

I’ve ridden a monarch rear shock quite a bit and they seem much better than the fox, but if I was spending again, it’d be coil all the way.

Gelert – what you’ve described is about how I think suspension shout be – spring-rate-wise anyway. You just need to get the damping how you like it now. Bit more rebound sounds like it would sort you.

The general feedback seems to be that the Fox shocks don’t seem to gel quite as well with the single pivot setup, or at least previous to the 2016 versions. Lot of positive feedback for coil shocks here but I’m still thinking they are a bit overkill for what I want from my riding and bike. Therefore I’ve gone for a CCDB air cs shock as that seems to be the next best thing and managed to pick one up for a fairly good price last night 🙂 Now just need to work out a base tune when it turns up and go from there.

Also interested in the FIT4 damper upgrade for the 34’s, be keen to hear how you get on with them gelert.