my commute shoes have (silver) reflective patches and I’ve taken to using those fetching snap on ankle “bracelets”

Yeah I have patches like that on my shoes. Got some of those snap-on bracelets free from the garage but I admit they are wrapped around my top tub instead.

None of that “counts” legally though – no pedal reflectors = illegal. 🙁

Was going to say I hope the groups doing the fine sessions use some common sense ie a bike festooned with lights that don’t conform to british standard wouldn’t get a fine would it?

I would imagine so. But if you are ever hit by a car I’m sure any defending solicitor would be sure to mention illegal lights and reflectors 👿

how many of us are still breaking the law by not having pedal reflectors

a bike festooned with lights that don’t conform to british standard wouldn’t get a fine would it?

I thought the law only related to when they were sold by shops, and we are free to remove if we want?

I’d have thought cost of dynamo hub vs led lights and some batteries makes it a bit of a no brainer.

Well, no, not really. You can get Shimano dynamo hubs for £25 retail, they’re **** heavy but they’ll do the job.

The economics of fitting one after market do get a bit silly (wheel build etc) which is why I specifically said they should be specced on new bikes. There’s a market for burly commute bikes like the Genesis Alfine, Charge Blender and the Pompino – they should do a “winter edition” of these with lighting added.

If you double up on lights you also guard against total unit failure aswell as batteries running out.

True dat, I’ve had bad experiences with all kinds of lights. But the overall reliability of dynamos must be higher than something that needs charging every couple of days.

I thought the law only related to when they were sold by shops, and we are free to remove if we want?

Nope, required by law in the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations.
See the CTC article on it here: http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=4071

Some folk just don’t seem to value their life highly enough.

Some folk, I genuinely believe, don’t realise the risk they are taking.

When you’re sat on a bike, you have a great visibility of the world. No blindspots, all your senses firing away voraciously, and everything passing by at an easy pace. Pedestrians don’t walk around bumping into each other at night, and neither really, do cyclists. Streetlamps work their magic well.

It’s when you get behind the wheel you realise how mental it is. Some people you will not see until they are a few feet away. By which time it’s possibly too late.

I simply don’t ride in the dark – I’m fortunate in not needing to so I don’t.

Streetlamps work their magic well.

Yeah I actually think we are a bit over-reliant on them (as brooess was sort of suggesting earlier). It makes us forget how dark it really is.
We can see okay by them, we think we are safe, but motorist’s eyes are adjusted to the light from their headlights, not from streetlights.

By contrast the majority of my commute is unlit. I simply couldn’t do it without a decent light (I tried once: it took hours and was sketchy as hell). So I run a decent light and use it on the road bits too (suitable dipped down).

Regardless of the legal question, riding without lights on the road is punishable by being driven into by cars. Seems like it ought to be reason enough.

I think it is really hard to know how invisible you are from inside a car compared to how well you can say see by street lighting. Lights being required by law are a good example of where I think that the law is needed to protect people…

I met a bunch of roadies last night at about 9pm on my way back from Inners. As far as I could tell, although they all had lights they were all set to flashing mode. This made it really hard to tell how many of them there were and how much road they were taking up. Now while flashing lights might be a great idea for riding int towns and cities I think it may be better when riding on quiet country roads to have your lights on constant mode rather than flashing especially when in a fairly large group. Am I right in thinking that the law stipulates that you should have at least one rear light on in a constant rather than flashing state?

Am I right in thinking that the law stipulates that you should have at least one rear light on in a constant rather than flashing state?

Not any more. A flashing light is acceptable now.

No pedal reflectors on my bikes, but my commuting road bike has front and rear reflectors (two rear, one on the mudguard and one built into the rear steady light) and…

Respro ankle bands FTW!!! Day glow on the way in Scotchbrite on the way home. Nothing shouts “Cyclist” like these bad boys 🙂

Aldi had those little emergency 2 led front and rear lightsets for £3.50 they must cost pence bought in bulk the old bill could keepa box in the car and hand them out to kids with no light .They are bright enough to get you seen

Regardless of the legal question, riding without lights on the road is punishable by being driven into by cars.

along with grahams “cyclists without lights should be sat in a car on a rainy night to see how invisible they are” I’d like to add motorists should be shown a load of cyclists and pedestrians in situ on a road then sit them in a car and turn the sprinklers on and ask “can you see them now?”, in shitty conditions drivers have a duty to slow down and drive more carefully aswell. The amount of people tailgating at >70mph on the motorway in heavy rain, spray and fog is truly terrifying

those respros look pretty good djaustin.
That coat in the guardian looked bright but a bit boil in the bag. Can I get a softshell in fluro yellow with SMIDSY? spelt out in leds on the back please?

I cant believe the number of cyclists doing the ninja thing at the moment. I normally don’t leave work in daylight at this time of year and in the 3 miles to the motorway it isn’t unusual to average 1 ninja / mile.

Whether riding or driving just be blooming visible is my prioriy! Flashing only lights are a pain in one respect they are not as good for depth or speed perception as a steady beam. As a driver I would favour both together or a dimming rather than on off flash.

Motorists arent exactly immune to no lights either!

(Probably ERC)
Yep – it’s great, isn’t it. I did some group night riding last winter (Carlisle – Edinburgh, Berwick – Edinburgh) and it’s amazing how much more careful car drivers are when you are travelling as a group on unlit roads. They slow down and give you loads of room. If only it was like that all the time….

As for the pedal reflector issue, I’d argue that the SPD shoe is part of the pedal and that has reflective bits on it 😉

Believe it or not the CTC campaigned hard for years against the introduction of any requirement for a bicycle to carry a rear light on the grounds that it was up to the overtaker (ie the car driver) to be making sure he could see what was ahead rather than make users of slower vehicles take the responsibility. They eventually lost the battle of course.

Believe it or not the CTC campaigned hard for years against the introduction of any requirement for a bicycle to carry a rear light on the grounds that it was up to the overtaker (ie the car driver) to be making sure he could see what was ahead rather than make users of slower vehicles take the responsibility. They eventually lost the battle of course.

Wasn’t this like in the 40s or something, when horse drawn vehicles were still the norm?! Which does actually make a lot of sense, in that context.

Not so much these days. Bit of a shame in a way.

“I’d have thought cost of dynamo hub vs led lights and some batteries makes it a bit of a no brainer.“

In Germany and Holland it’s illegal not to have a dyno. And look at the ruinous effect that massive price hike has had on cycling in those countries.

A chap at work ( Mr safety conscious ) is lying in intensive care in an induced coma. Why? – cycling to work with no lights AND crucially no lid, he was found unconscious at the side of the road. Now we don’t know did he just crash – weather was shit – or was he knocked off by a vehicle. The lid may have saved his fractured skull ( no other injuries) and the lights would have made him visible. Moral of this story, get both sorted, they may make sod all difference, but for a few quid you give yourself a fighting chance. You ARE not a road “warrior”, just a other bug waiting for a car to take you out!!! (That would be a “dad” speech then)

Crazy thing is, you’re probably able to buy lights in UK certified as compliant with the German StVZO, but no BS mark.

In Germany and Holland it’s illegal not to have a dyno. And look at the ruinous effect that massive price hike has had on cycling in those countries.

My understanding is that for “race bikes” less than 11kg, battery powered lights are allowed, but must be removable, which is basically most of them. And some strange regulation for 6V and 3W minimum is repalced by some rule about Lux coverage.
But My assumption is they still need pedal reflectors, spoke reflectors and red/white reflectors (not sure), with everything having the German kite mark. Now to find some amber reflectors for my SPDs…

Reflectors – I don’t have any, or didn’t until I found a pack of these in Aldi for a fiver –

For those who want some reflection without clutter, I can recommend these:

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_154685_langId_-1_categoryId_228860

I use them a lot. They’re very reflective and they’re pretty sticky – they’ll wrap round a mudguard stay (2-3mm dia?) and not unwrap themselves; they’d probably be fine on a spoke as well. I’ve used them on rims, mudguards, frames, forks, helmets, seatposts, cranks, racks, mudguards, and – yes – even SPD pedals (well, ATACs, but they’d work on most clipless – I doubt they’d stick well to textured plastic). They may not be BS reflectors but they’re the one thing I’ve found that you’ll get on clipless pedals without them coming off.

cycling to work with no lights

So presumably cycling in daylight then?

I’d probably leave the blame game up to the accident investigators.

In Birmingham the `proper’ commuters seem to be largely dressed up like a christmas tree, its the casual cyclists with no lights which are a menace this time of year, and downright dangerous.

So presumably cycling in daylight then?

Depends what time you start work, where you live and how long the journey takes.

I do normal office hours, don’t live on the edge of the Arctic circle and there’s a good 2-3 months of the year when it’s properly dark when I start my commute.

cycling to work with no lights

So presumably cycling in daylight then?

I’d probably leave the blame game up to the accident investigators.

What bails said +1

It was dark enough to need lights in Wokingham at 7:30 this morning, by Christmas I need lights for the inward and outbound journey.

http://www.cyclistsdefencefund.org.uk/cycle-lighting

This bit should be of interest to everyone riding along with their DX Bastids set to strobe:

No lamp should be used so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to any persons using the road. Views will of course differ but the attentions of an enthusiastic policeman may be avoided if the angle of an intense front light is dipped slightly.

Believe it or not the CTC campaigned hard for years against the introduction of any requirement for a bicycle to carry a rear light on the grounds that it was up to the overtaker (ie the car driver) to be making sure he could see what was ahead rather than make users of slower vehicles take the responsibility. They eventually lost the battle of course.

It’s a shame really, because where is the danger coming from on the roads? Yep, motor vehicles. So why should those who aren’t creating the danger have a responsibility to mitigate it*? Ultimately it’s another case of victim blaming really. However, we (Cyclists) and the rest of society have accepted it and grown accustomed to it so it’s accepted.

* To put it another way, should we legally require pedestrians to use lights on shared use paths? If they aren’t, and we cycle into them then it’s their fault for not being lit? Sounds a bit ridiculous, but I can’t think of any other analogy that doesn’t!

Completely agree. From a pragmatic point of view I want to see and be seen, from a moral point of view I feel a bit sickened by some of the comments on this thread.

“Cyclists with no lights are a menace” – what, a menace to your paintwork?

should we legally require pedestrians to use lights on shared use paths?

I do see your point but to be honest… I think we probably should! Or at the very least wear something reflective.

Quite a few peds on my route carry torches at this time of year and will shine them at their dogs as I cycle towards them. Some even have flashy/hiviz collars on their dogs. That is immensely helpful of them and always gets a hearty “Thanks” from me.

Every now and then though I’ll meet someone dressed completely in black, who will then berate me for having such a bright light?!?

I do see your point but to be honest… I think we probably should! Or at the very least wear something reflective.

Really?! I suppose it makes life easier for us as cyclists so from a purely selfish point of view I could agree. Unfortunately, morally I cannot, it’s far more up to me to avoid hitting them than it is for them to avoid me hitting them, and forcing them to take impractical measures to make my life easier isn’t something I would countenance.

Quite a few peds on my route carry torches at this time of year and will shine them at their dogs as I cycle towards them. Some even have flashy/hiviz collars on their dogs. That is immensely helpful of them and always gets a hearty “Thanks” from me.

Yep, I agree with all this. I cycle along canal towpaths and seeing folk allows me to cycle faster and avoid potential collisions. However, I’d never wish them to be forced to be lit/wear bright clothing just for my/other cyclists benefit. The prinicple is all wrong!

Really?!

Well no, probably not legally compelled to – legislation is never nice – but a bit of simple public information wouldn’t go amiss.

As I said on a different thread, I (only just) saw an old guy the other night dressed all in black wearing a full-face black balaclava. Bear in mind this is a pitch-black completely unlit rural path!

Peds shouldn’t be forced to wear lights or reflectives, but likewise we shouldn’t be forced to spend a small fortune on 2000 lumen lights so we can spot ninjas.