In Brighton we have friendly council safety people handing out high-viz accessories to promote cyclist visibility which is cool. Next week the same friendly folk are stopping and fining those without lights on a fairly busy area (the Level for those who know B-Town).

Not sure what I think, riding without lights is a danger to yourself and others but I’d not heard of this being introduced. I always ride with lights in low visibility so don’t feel worried myself.

Whadja think? I feel it wouldn’t hurt to try and raise helmet wearing numbers too. Spotted a chap in a hi-viz windbreaker sans chapeau; teh ironing!

I see helmets as best done by personal choice

I see riding without lights as a huge menace that should is against thelaw and should be against the law. No idea about puinshment level but its not on

Of you are hit without lights its not cost free for the person that hits you. Fixing you is not cist free

I’d not heard of this being introduced.

It’s a legal requirement of riding on the road after dark.

I feel it wouldn’t hurt to try and raise helmet wearing numbers too.

Well they could mention helmets, but they certainly shouldn’t/can’t try to enforce them.
Personally I think they’d be better sticking to lights than hassling people who are riding legally.

It’s the law to use lights, so why not?

I’d not heard of this being introduced

they’ve been doing this in Brighton for a few years, tends to coincide with the clocks changing and the students coming back.

As a driver and a cyclist I only hope that they do it more and that the fines get larger.

they do it in Oxford timed to coincide with clock changes. They will rescind the ticket if the ‘offender’ produces a receipt for a set of bike lights which seems eminently sensible.

Spotted a chap in a hi-viz windbreaker sans chapeau; teh ironing!

That’s totally the right way round. Would you rather not be knocked off, or be knocked off and have your head hurt slightly less?

I saw this. At the same time as usual a number of riders also chose to ignore the red lights along that stretch. I don’t mind having to catch up with them again, infact I love it but waiting at the lights while they sail by you know that the drivers are having their prejudices reinforced. ie cyclists shouldn’t be on the road.

having nearly hit a cyclist on the way to work in the dark this morning, who was dressed in dark clothes, with no lights/reflectors at all and cycling down a busy road. I’d say it was a good idea.

Ned, the answer is neither; be visible and wear a lid. It tickled me because he half cares, like the people who wear helmets backwards or halfway down the back of their head.

I’ve been knocked off while with lights and helmet and nearly squashed, raising more vulnerable rider’s safety is a plus but I wasn’t sure about penalising people.

As someone learning to drive I also see how important it is to make riders visible, the blind spots are uncomfortably large!

I commute with Hi-viz clothing and monster lights but don’t wear a helmet.

EDIT: In Cambridge, where about 30% of the population commute by bike (highest in country), probably only 5% wear helmets. Rather shockingly only about 15% have any lights…..

It’s the law to use lights, so why not?

Its certainly a ‘rule’

60
At night your cycle MUST have white front and red rear lights lit. It MUST also be fitted with a red rear reflector (and amber pedal reflectors, if manufactured after 1/10/85). White front reflectors and spoke reflectors will also help you to be seen. Flashing lights are permitted but it is recommended that cyclists who are riding in areas without street lighting use a steady front lamp.
Law RVLR regs 13, 18 & 24

But since the rule before is:

59
Clothing. You should wear

a cycle helmet which conforms to current regulations, is the correct size and securely fastened
appropriate clothes for cycling. Avoid clothes which may get tangled in the chain, or in a wheel or may obscure your lights
light-coloured or fluorescent clothing which helps other road users to see you in daylight and poor light
reflective clothing and/or accessories (belt, arm or ankle bands) in the dark.

Not sure what the ‘law’ is, but CTC refer to this:

Home : Article Library :
Cycle Lighting
Cycle lighting has been a complicated issue for a long time. Below you will find an article by Richard Harrison published in December 2003. Some technical aspects of this article were superseded by revision of the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations in 2005, so this article should be read in conjunction with the following information:

•It is now legal to have a flashing light on a bike, provided it is an appropriate colour and flashes between 60 and 240 times per minute.
•It is even possible for a flashing light to be the “approved” front or rear light, rather than just an additional light.
•Any kind of light source can be used in a lamp, including LEDs of course.
•Lights are now permitted to move, if attached to wheels or pedals.
These changes should make it much easier for a cyclist to equip him- or herself with lights that are both functional and legal. Very few lamp manufacturers however, have availed themselves of the opportunities provided in 2005, to obtain British approval for LED and flashing lamps.
Without approval, a lamp is useful merely as an optional lamp – in addition to the cyclist’s approved front or rear lamp. Unfortunately there are now very few British approved lamps on the market. It can be hard to find even one in a shop, so the majority of cyclists (probably including cycling lawyers) continue to ride illegally after dark.

For more information on the technical details of cycle lighting regulations, including the provision for equivalent British approval of lamps approved by other EC countries – and its limitations – see this CTC website page. Cycle lighting has been a complicated issue for a long time. Below you will find an article by Richard Harrison published in December 2003. The law mentioned in this article may be superceded by new regulations. as the following report from the CTC indicates.

——————————————————————————–

The law of bicycle lighting
Richard Harrison addresses matters of concern to the urban cyclist in winter.

A similar paper to this appeared in New Law Journal dated 19 December 2003.

•why many lawyers may be breaking the law
•how the law fails to keep up with technological advances
•proposals for reform
Many lawyers, certainly in central London, cycle to their offices, chambers and courtrooms. These include eminent members of the senior judiciary, at least one of whom has been witnessed shooting a red traffic light.

Illegal lawyers
But none of us can cast the first stone. In these dark winter mornings and nights, many of us are breaking the law. If our lights are the modern, flashing variety and we select their flashing mode, we are infringing the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 (S.I. 1989 No 1796) (“the Regulations”).

Under the heading “Lamps to show a steady light”, the Regulations state that: “…no vehicle shall be fitted with a lamp which automatically emits a flashing light”. The vast majority of experienced cyclists will tell you that being seen at night by other road users is something of a priority. You do not want a vehicle to ram you from behind and you do not want anyone moving out in front of you if you can possibly avoid it. In the city, bicycle lighting is not about seeing but about being seen. It is about conspicuity, not about illumination.

On one analysis, you can never have enough lighting. There are of course practical limits but most sensible cyclists buy the best they can afford and set up a system which suits them. The most effective lights are light emitting diodes (“LEDs”) and, in my experience both in a car and in the saddle, their most conspicuous manifestation is their flashing mode.

A sample system
I use two LED’s at the front: a cylindrical white flashing spotlight to my right and a flat yellow light to my left. At the rear, I use a broad red fixed light attached to the luggage rack and a flashing red LED. My mudguards have fluorescent plastic strips affixed to my mudguard and helmet. There are amber reflectors on my pedals, white ones on my front wheels, a red reflector on the seat post and a white reflector on the handle bar. My side panniers have fluorescent strips and I also tend to wear a yellow and silver Sam Browne belt. But what makes me feel most safe and secure are my flashing LEDs. Observation suggests that many other cyclists also gain comfort from flashing.

What are the legal requirements?
According to the Regulations:

You need a front lamp. It should be on the centre-line or off side of the vehicle and aligned to and visible from the front. It should be not more than 1500 mm above the ground. It should be white (or yellow if it is incorporated in a headlamp which is capable of emitting only a yellow light). It should be marked with a British Standard Mark namely BS 6102/3 (or its equivalent).

You need a rear lamp which should also be on the centre-line or off side of the vehicle aligned to and visible from the rear. It should also be not more than 1500 mm and not less than 350mm above the ground. It should have an angle of visibility 80O to the left and to the right and it should be red. It should be marked either with the British Standards Institution 3648:1963 or “BS 6102/3”.

You also need a rear reflector complying with the appropriate British Standard Mark between 350mm and 900 mm from the ground. New bikes will invariably be fitted with one: you wouldn’t take it off but it is unlikely to be your main line of defence.

Finally, you need two amber reflectors on each pedal complying with BS6102/2. Once again, you would not necessarily remove these from your pedal. They appear to be the least visible or useful of all lighting devices but if one breaks, as they invariably do, given their position, you should replace it in order to remain within the law.

In addition to the illegality of flashing lights, there are a number of other relevant restrictions:

There is a prohibition on lights which move. So you cannot attach a light (other than a reflector) to pedals or wheels.

No lamp should be used so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to any persons using the road. Views will of course differ but the attentions of an enthusiastic policeman may be avoided if the angle of an intense front light is dipped slightly.

The other surprising technicality is that modern LED lights arguably do not comply with the relevant British Standard. The standard has been amended to cover LED lights but because of the way the standard is referred to in the Regulations, they arguably remain illegal. To comply strictly with the law, you must use an old fashioned, less efficient filament bulb as your main light and the powerful, highly visible LED light as a somewhat artificial “back-up”.

Using lights is the law and should be enforced.

Using a helmet is personal choice and should be kept that way.

Maybe rather than just fining the lightless they could also supply them with lights, “You’ve been riding without a light, thats a £30 on the spot fine and here have a set of lights so it doesn’t happen again.”

Maybe rather than just fining the lightless they could also supply them with lights, “You’ve been riding without a light, thats a £30 on the spot fine and here have a set of lights so it doesn’t happen again.”

They did this in Cambridge, offenders got a choice, buy some lights and present the receipt at the Police Station within 48 hours or get a £30 fine.

At night your cycle MUST have white front and red rear lights lit.

You should wear a cycle helmet which conforms to current regulations

big difference.

I’ll admit to living in brighton and cycling round being pretty lax when it came to lights, i had two tiny things, which sometimes got forgotten. and it was never a problem because the roads are so well lit.

First ride back from the pub when i moved, was a bit of a shock: 3 miles of a country road, with nothing more than a single lumen!

I would laugh at a council person who tried to fine me. Aside from that – wot they sed ^^^^^

“You’ve been riding without a light, thats a £30 on the spot fine and here have a set of lights so it doesn’t happen again.”

good shout.

that or the “fine or provide receipt” I’d welcome more schemes like this, riding around without lights in the pitch black is more than a little silly. Leave the helmet stuff out tho.

Lights are a legal requirement, aren’t they? a helmet isn’t; you can only be fined for breaking the rules…

Lights reduce the likelyhood of an accident occuring, a helmet’s function is to reduce the consequences if an accident occurs, you can’t really bleat about someone lacking the 2nd line of defence if they’ve not bothered with the first…

TBH this is a pretty obvious bit of light trolling OP, But now we are Sans TJ I’m not sure this one will run as far as previously… Sorry.

How would you feel if some car drivers chose not use lights at night?

Point being, riding without lights is not on, it’s not fair to other road users, and makes cyclists look irresponsible, because it is irresponsible.

I think the cycle industry can do something here…
I give away a nice helmet with every local bike sale, so they have no excuse, don’t need to weigh up f they will buy one or not.
Maybe I should give lights away instead.

Too much cycle clothing is black.
My top end altura jacket has zero reflective bits on it !!!
I would like to see some attractive and styled hi viz (or is cool hi viz impossible?)

My top end altura jacket has zero reflective bits on it !!!

My slightly ancient Altura is a subtle road grey, but does have some nice reflective piping on it that lights me up like tron when headlights shine on it.

I would like to see some attractive and styled hi viz (or is cool hi viz impossible?)

Did you see this bad boy reviewed on Teh Grauniad Biek Bolg?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/bike-blog/2012/oct/24/cycling-extreme-high-vis

In the words of the reviewer, Peter Walker, “An eye-melting yellow/lime shade which somehow transcends day-glo to approach outright luminescence, it is possibly visible from space. If that’s not enough it’s covered in reflective trim.”

Neither attractive, nor styled, in my opinion. But certainly seems visible!

I think the indictaor arms are the crowning glory on that jacket, tbh.

When I was working for The Bike Chain in Edinburgh, we’d carry a cheap set of lights with us and hand them out to unlit commuters. You’d be surprised how many folk just didn’t want them.

Riding without lights really boils my piss, both as a cyclist and a driver.

Its about the most inconsiderate thing you can do on a bike and probably the most dangerous.

Its not even as if lights are expensive or hard to buy.
Tesco Lights

6 quid from Tesco!

So yes by all means fine cyclist who don’t use lights, £30 plus the cost of a set of lights.

You’d be surprised how many folk just didn’t want them.

WTF? What reasoning did they offer?

6 quid from Tesco!

I met an old guy bimbling towards me the other night with his wife in tow.
Both were on BSOs and had tiny single lumen lights that were barely visibile. I have no idea how they could see where they were going, given that it was pitch black and we were on a country path through the woods.

Bloke pulls to a halt in front of me:
“Blimey, that’s some light you’ve got there.” (a 2004 era Lumicycle Halide) “We thought it was a searchlight coming up the path” (I actually dipped it down when I saw them approaching)

He then asks a couple of questions about it. Batteries, runtime etc and I answer them, patiently waiting for the inevitable…

“How much is that then..?”

Followed by the incredulous spluttering noise of a man who has just had his value system seriously challenged. 😀

“I… I think we’ll stick with these” he said, squinting uselessly into the darkness.

Obviously big bright lights aren’t for everyone, but I did silently wonder if he has ever considered how much his car headlights cost?

footflaps – Member
In Cambridge, where about 30% of the population commute by bike (highest in country), probably only 5% wear helmets. Rather shockingly only about 15% have any lights…..

Yup, scary how many ninjas there are without lights at this time of the year, they really don’t do themselves any favours. When a decent set of LEDs is so cheap there’s no excuse. The fine or receipt option sounds eminently sensible, though I can’t say I’ve ever seen anyone handing out tickets (also in Cambridge).

out of interest how do these cyclist fines work practically?

I mean if they’re council employees not rozzers so can’t they compell you to provide some form of ID can they?

Do they just ask for name/address and rely on the honesty of the unlit cyclist?

or do they have a police wingman?

I applaud the effort to improve cycling safety, just not clear on how effective it really is…

I’m not intending to troll but they are connected issues, fines or receipt and the chance to buy are a much better option than plain fining. I think more mountaineering stuff should have reflective details, some does but not enough.

(a) “Too much hassle”
(b) “They’ll just get stolen” (“Yes, but you can remove them”) – See (a)
(c) “But then I’ll have to buy batteries”

Some folk just don’t seem to value their life highly enough.

out of interest how do these cyclist fines work practically?

Once or twice a year the Police camp out on busy cycle roads, eg Mill Road in Cambridge, and nab everyone with out lights. Pretty much a token gesture, I’d be keen to see them really clamp down on it.

Been doing it for years in Cambridge – set up a load of police in one place in the middle of town, and hand out £20 quid fines to anyone who passes without a light. Loads of people got them when I was there.

Some folk just don’t seem to value their life highly enough.

It seems not 😕 I’d love to sit people like that in a car on a wet dark night and show them just how completely invisible they are.

Some folk just don’t seem to value their life highly enough.

I think it’s slightly different. More to do with lack of ability to assess risk or even understand that assessing risk is important for survival.

Life is generally very safe these days in the UK – so much has been done to protect us from danger/our own lack of skill (airbags and ABS pretty much standard, non-rewireable plugs etc) that unless you do risky activities (climbing, hillwalking, cycling, motorbike, building work, window cleaning etc) many people fail to realise that risk assessment is a skill they they need but lack.

Risk is being mitigated by product design rather than personal judgement essentially

The number of people wandering around with headphones round dark streets in South East London, or wandering into the road without looking, and all the RLJers… suggests to me they don’t even realise they need to assess risk before they do something…

Oh and some people are simply thick!

how many of us are still breaking the law by not having pedal reflectors and rear red reflectors then?

how many of us are still breaking the law by not having pedal reflectors and rear red reflectors then?

Hear Hear! (Here Here! ?)

I don’t listen to anyone telling me I must use lights if they don’t have pedal reflectors!

Hypocrites!

As br mentioned in the tl;dr; post above – it’s pretty unlikely that your lights are marked as conforming to BS6102/3 so they are technically illegal anyway (even though they probably vastly exceed that standard).

And I’ve never seen British Statndard pedal reflectors that work with clipless pedals and don’t just fly off after the first pothole.

Basically the law is an ass.

It’s not about obeying the law though – it is about staying safe.

I confess to sinning on the reflectors part of the deal.

I do use lights, however, and there’s reflecty bits on my waterproof, camelbak, shoes and gloves so I’m doing my best.

Lights and no helmet isn’t ironic. The bloke I saw the other day whose day-glo safety vest was covering up his rear light – that’s ironic.

I invariably end up riding without lights once or twice a year after batteries die or I forget to put them in my bag. I’d like to see more new bikes specced with modern hub dynamos, when was the last time you saw one in a bike shop? It’s not going to happen in the UK though, because bikes have to be as light as possible lest magazine reviewers tell you not to buy them.

how many of us are still breaking the law by not having pedal reflectors

my commute shoes have (silver) reflective patches and I’ve taken to using those fetching snap on ankle “bracelets”

and rear red reflectors then?

OK, you got me. But why do I need a passive reflector when I’ve got 2 rear lights? I do now have wheel reflectors thanks to aldi.

Was going to say I hope the groups doing the fine sessions use some common sense ie a bike festooned with lights that don’t conform to british standard wouldn’t get a fine would it?

I’d like to see more new bikes specced with modern hub dynamos

I’d have thought cost of dynamo hub vs led lights and some batteries makes it a bit of a no brainer. If you double up on lights you also guard against total unit failure aswell as batteries running out.

Those £6 tesco jobs any good?
Cateye front and rear set £13 in LBS the other day, bargain!

£30 plus the cost of a set of lights.

The cost of an Exposure Flash and Flare set would drive the point home 👿