As a soft target moving up the inside of traffic should the practice be made illegal

Afterall if you are not sneaking up the inside of something and it turns left you are unlikely to be squished in this scenario?

Therefore reducing this one cause of injury/death

No, that’s just daft.

Live dangerously.

Since when has making something illegal, especially on the roads made a difference?

Nah, it wont stop the practice.

More driver and cyclist awareness needed to understand the risks.

Live sensibly.

I filter everyday, past left hand turns and I’ve never been left hooked.

I filter on the outside.

I usually always have a light on my bike, so if I filter, then the light gets turned onto strobe (daytime only) until I am through, plus I always expect something to happen anyway, that way I hopefully should be ready when it does.

So you’d rather sit in the traffic jam along with all the cars then? Sucking up all the carbon monoxide and adding to the length of the queue… not sure how that helps anyone.

You’d also have to paint over/remove pretty much every cycle lane in the UK at great expense.

I’ve never understood this reaction that because something’s not best practice, it should be banned – prohibition hasn’t worked for alcohol, drugs or speeding… so unlikely to work for filtering.

Filtering in and of itself is not dangerous. Just like driving, it’s when it’s done with poor skill that it becomes dangerous. The challenge you have is to get everyone who does it to do it at high skill – and the normal distribution curve tells you that’s unlikely.

I mainly filter on the right on the basis I’m more visible to drivers in both directions, and am less likely to get left hooked. If I judge that too risky I will just wait in the queue of traffic. I will filter on the left if it’s the only space there is and there’s virtually no chance of the traffic moving or turning into me. Even then I’ll watch like a hawk.

More training for cyclists and drivers would be a more effective solution than prohibition IMO. Left turning tipper trucks are over-represented in the figures for cyclist deaths in London and the Parliamentary Committee report released last week didn’t go anywhere near considering banning filtering. It did, however, talk about driver training, cyclist training and more, fully segregated cycling facilities

filtering should it be made illegal

Nah.

I filter on the outside.

This. I went through a phase when first commuting where I wasn’t confident enough to overtake on the right, but as my fitness increased I was happier hammering it past there, where everyone stood a better chance of seeing me.

I also tend not to filter in multiple lanes if traffic is moving. If one lane is moving, I’ll take that lane, if both are moving, going between them is a stupid risk.

Quite right.
Also, overtaking should be made illegal because of the risk of hitting something coming from the opposite direction.

Sounds fair?

Bollocks to that. The whole point of commuting by bike is that you’re the fastest thing on the road. If you can’t filter, you might as well sit in a tin box like all the other numpties.

Filtering on the outside is good. Filtering on the inside needs thought beforehand. Although again, it should be bleeding obvious when a car is about to turn left across you because they should damn well be indicating!!

Since when has making something illegal, especially on the roads made a difference?

Seat Belt laws.

Seat Belt laws.

Positive action, not negative action.

Not sure accidents while filtering is such a problem. But if it is an a big issue then I think better education to cyclists and drivers is needed not a ban. I’ve never had any issues filtering past cars. Either I’m extremely lucky or I just ride my bike sensibly and anticipate hazards and try to avoid them?

It was just an observation my OH made today that she sees cyclists in her RH mirror a lot more than in her left ,she doesn’t ride a bike btw so has never seen it from a cycle commute point of view on the road.

She was however far more aware cyclists are killed on the LH side and in her words “undertaking”

the thought just occurred you wouldn’t (generalizing) try to get a car up the inside of another car so why do it on a bike , just because you can

So you’d rather sit in the traffic jam along with all the cars then? Sucking up all the carbon monoxide and adding to the length of the queue… not sure how that helps anyone.

The result of sitting in carbon monoxide is generally the same outcome as being crushed, lack of breath ,IMHO id rather get home to see my kids at night alive than try to save a few minutes on a left hooker

And whlst its great for experienced cyclists to have enough common sense and awareness to get away with it , there are those that just aren’t road aware, new bike riders, new helmet, ride to work seems a good idea at the time types ,I was thinking more for their safety

Surely you’re fair safer when you’re moving??? You can’t legislate for every numpty whilst still keeping cycling as accessible as it is.
I’m pretty sure punting it up the inside of a left-turning vehicle is already covered at length in the Highway Code so the answer is education not regulation.

the thought just occurred you wouldn’t (generalizing) try to get a car up the inside of another car so why do it on a bike , just because you can

Filtering as a term does not apply only to cycling up the inside of
traffic… it refers to all of cyclists, scooter riders and motorcyclists, and skipping through congested traffic out of the queue – whether on the left or right, or between the lanes of static traffic.

So the only alternative to ‘not filtering’ is to sit in the traffic.

Education/training is def the best way for new cyclists to be able to judge the risk of left-hand-side filtering and to ride accordingly. You have to remember that this means telling them to ignore almost all cycle lanes in urban environments…

If the muppets in their tin boxes checked their passenger side mirrors before turning left then the number of incidents would be significantly reduced.

I always position myself so that I am in the car drivers mirror and only filter when their isn’t a left hand turn ahead.

If you made car drivers liable and increased the sentences for knocking one off his/her bike then I reckon the number of instances would go down.

I filter on the right of traffic.

I filter above traffic.

I vote for idiocy to be made illigal

+ cyclist education. Some vehicles i wont filter round on either side unless its stopped and id made eye contact with driver.

I learned a bit about defensive cycling from the ‘silly cyclists’ youtube series. I’m sure most people could do with some cycling education.

I filter wherever is the best option at that particular moment. Which can be left, right, or not at all. It’s very often safer than just sitting where random chance plonked you in the queue.

Also whether engined or not, filtering’s one of the major benefits of 2 wheels, I’d no more want to give that up than I’d want to give up the right to drive over cyclists when I’m in the car.

I do it all the time in my car when there the traffic is queuing, there are multiple queues and the queue on the right is going slower.

I don’t see filtering as a problem as most have said above.
I no longer commute to work on a bike. I now have a motorway journey to contend with.
What used to piss me off the most when I did however, was exiting at the end of a bus lanes. Not the buses but motor vehicles (not being discriminatory) cutting across the lane too early to turn left. I’ve nearly been had many times. The problem in my view is that motorists think that cyclists aren’t fast, thus always try to cut in. So they may see you filtering but not judge your speed accurately enough for you to pass safely.

JonEdwards – Member

Filtering on the outside is good. Filtering on the inside needs thought beforehand. Although again, it should be bleeding obvious when a car is about to turn left across you because they should damn well be indicating!!

Agreed about filtering on the outside/through the middle if it’s dual carriageway.
I also emboldened your text with regards to filtering on the inside. Never presume that a vehicle has seen you if you’re there and it’s such a potentially dangerous place to be why would you rush to put yourself in that position? Any vehicle turning left should indicate their intentions, but it is also incumbent upon the cyclist to behave responsibly and consider that the vehicle may not be so thoughtful as to indicate. Being right about the highway code is wonderful, but poor compensation when you get hospitalised or killed.

Excellent baiting OP…

Since when has making something illegal, especially on the roads made a difference?

+1…

I kept glancing in my rear view mirror yesterday just to check if the cocksocket behind was still jabbering on his mobile… He drove a good couple of miles while “multitasking” it seemed to be a very animated call, almost the sort you might consider stopping and pulling over for rather than conduct while you’re driving across town, lots of gestures etc… If you can get that particular law enforced and I’ll listen to your ideas for restricting cyclists free movement on the roads…

TBH I think passing on the left can/does often work safely, but its not always wise, I’ll often filter up to the front at lights in a cycle lane and sit out front where I’m visible and still get beeped by some twunt who believes I have no right to occupy that space…

ASLS, seem to be observed by ~35% drivers, and don’t work particularly well. depending on what the traffic ahead presents me with I will often sit a few cars back rather than try and get up front at lights/junctions. If the traffic is moving slowly and there’s space to I’ll “filter” on the right…

There are a number of ways to make safe progress on a bike in built up traffic, but they all rely on Drivers and cyclist having some spacial awareness and being able to look ahead and make sensible judgements based on experience and a desire not to die or be involved in and RTA

If you really can’t read the traffic or make sensible decisions for yourself, there’s always those painted lines on the pavement now…

The whole knee jerk response of making things illegal because Mondeo-Man can’t get his head around it is a bit shit TBH…

filtering[i] Forcing your own inflated and irrational sense of risk on everyone else….[/i] should it be made illegal

Please god YES

Surely this is a “Lets Give in to drivers” thread?
the Car is King mentality and all that, other “user groups” are expected to accept inconvenience and delay so drivers don’t need to furrow their brow or think too much…

Why not make Motor Vehicles Illegal instead?

-They squash Pedestrians and cyclists.
-They bump into each other at speed necessitating huge expenditure on various emergency services who, cut the occupants out and then take them off to a Hospital.
-The infrastructure to support motor vehicles (Roads, signs, lighing, etc) costs a huge amount…
-They polute the environment, and use up vast amounts of natural resources throughout their whole life cycle…
-They seem to induce a disproportionate amout of stress and anger in those using them.
-They make their user’s lazier and as a result fatter, creating Yet more NHS cost…

If you were to describe how our modern world is centered around the automobile to someone living in the 1850’s they’d think we’d gone utterly mental…

But these sort of threads always kick off with some useful suggestion about how we can better accommodate Motorized transport by inconveniencing those using a lower impact, more sustainable form of transport…

It’s all arse backwards IMO, Cars drivers should be at the bottom of the pile, not the top, shat on by the rest of the world*

(*I’d better be trading in my car I suppose)…

Any vehicle turning left should indicate their intentions, but it is also incumbent upon the cyclist to behave responsibly and consider that the vehicle may not be so thoughtful as to indicate.

By your use of the word ‘responsibly’ you’re saying it would be irresponsible to use a cycle lane in case a driver turns left without signalling … they’re almost always on the inside of traffic. In particular, the solid white line across the entry to a lot of ASLs means the only legal way to enter it is up the inside of traffic…

Once again, the solution is already known – enforcement of existing law on signalling before you turn left…

You’re right that if filtering on the left it’s very well worth looking out for a car to turn without signalling – but it’s very far from irresponsible to filter on the left..

brooess – Member

Once again, the solution is already known – enforcement of existing law on signalling before you turn left…

Would agree with you completely, but see my earlier post with regards to being right and dead.

The responsibility lies with both parties as they are sharing the physical space.
Ref Highway code 61-

61

Cycle Routes and Other Facilities. Use cycle routes, advanced stop lines, cycle boxes and toucan crossings unless at the time it is unsafe to do so. Use of these facilities is not compulsory and will depend on your experience and skills, but they can make your journey safer.

and how it goes both ways

182

Use your mirrors and give a left-turn signal well before you turn left. Do not overtake just before you turn left and watch out for traffic coming up on your left before you make the turn, especially if driving a large vehicle. Cyclists, motorcyclists and other road users in particular may be hidden from your view.

It’s give and take, it has to be.

Cyclists give, drivers take.

Love these kind of threads, brings out the fanatics and their god given right to do x or y, when the common sense answer is all about proper training for drivers and cyclists, and proper enforcement of existing rules.

Northwind – Member
I filter wherever is the best option at that particular moment. Which can be left, right, or not at all. It’s very often safer than just sitting where random chance plonked you in the queue.

+1.

philxx1975 » the thought just occurred you wouldn’t (generalizing) try to get a car up the inside of another car so why do it on a bike , just because you can

I see it all the time. I’ve even seen cars taking to the pavement to undertake a car turning right, and just up the road there’s a spot where cars regularly have accidents by swerving left into the bus lane without checking if a bus is coming.

cookeaa – Member
Surely this is a “Lets Give in to drivers” thread?

If you were to describe how our modern world is centered around the automobile to someone living in the 1850’s they’d think we’d gone utterly mental…

It’s all arse backwards IMO, Cars drivers should be at the bottom of the pile, not the top, shat on by the rest of the world*

I disagreed with you totally on the bike insurance thread but agree 100% with you on this. 8)

shedbrewed – Member

61

Cycle Routes and Other Facilities. Use cycle routes…

With regards to that part of the HC..

One of my wife’s friends recently had a Facebook rant about cyclists holding her up on the main road near her house, and why weren’t they using the cycle path? The nearest cycle path is about 1km away and doesn’t quite go in the same direction. She’s an intelligent person but as is said so often there seems to be a disconnect in peoples’ brains as soon as they are behind their steering wheels.

IJ, not been party to any rants but likewise, it’s a mile to my nearest couple of cycle routes and why would I want to ride on them when there are plenty of perfectly usable roads? I was simply quoting HC for those not lucky enough to be blessed with rurality (don’t care that it’s not a word).
I utterly despise those who ride on the pavement, and cycle routes that split the pavement; feeling it undermines the whole point of sharing road space by removing the cyclist from the consciousness of the driver.

Cyclists give, drivers take

I’m both a cyclist and a driver (as are you I note). Am I a giver and a taker? Or was that just another rash generalisation from one of the anti car brigade.

Can’t we stop putting folks in boxes, there are dicks in all types of life, why does it always come down to a ‘them and us’ mentality.

FYI re the OP – bad idea. Sorry.

So when a car gets halfway passed me then has to slow for traffic I have to slow done get behind them, cut across the line of traffic, swing out to the right, overtake a line of cars then once they start moving again cut across the line to get back to the left? Yeah that sounds eminently sensible to me. Yes over taking preferable generally but not always the best/safest option.

If you want make to a change either have no overtaking at all on single lane roads (so cars/vans/lorries/motorbikes/cycles etc no passes unless there is another lane to go into to overtake) or we stick with the current situation and do a big sell on telling cyclists not to undertake vehicles indicating left and we absolutely crucify* any drivers who don’t check their mirrors, indicate**, check their mirrors again and then turn when it’s actually safe to do so.

*instead of offering tea and sympathy to any poor driver who has had a cyclist throw themselves under their car’s wheels.
**and sticking your indicators on 200yards, 57 stationary vehicle lengths and 5minutes away from the next junction to prevent cyclists filtering/having to check before you make the turn, is not allowed either

Can’t we stop putting folks in boxes, there are dicks in all types of life, why does it always come down to a ‘them and us’ mentality.

I agree with this entirely. However, given the treatment I hear about and experience when cycling on the road, which I don’t receive when I’m driving, or walking or on public transport, I’m increasingly coming to the conclusion that there is something about being in a car (especially today’s very powerful, very big, very comfortable and very isolated-from-the-outside-world cars) that seems to turn usually nice, sensible, thoughtful people into aggressive, impatient, angry people. Same person, different behaviour in a different context.

I’d be really interested for Stanley Milgram and the people who did the Stanford Prison Experiment to do some work on this, and see what they conclude. The sheer irrationality of the worst types of driver behaviour around cyclists suggests some kind of mental breakdown going on.