Hi all, Just wanted to share my experiences of Felt customer service and my Felt double double 30 so this is part rant and part heads up for anyone considering one.

I bought a Double Double 30 fatbike last year, well ordered late October 2014 and finally received it in May 2015. After a long wait all was good and the bike was fantastic. I did my homework on fat bikes and ordered the Felt largely based on value of spec, weight and most importantly the fact that it had 197×12 rear and 15×150 front axles and a 120mm crank meaning I was future proofed for bigger 4.8 tyres and a Bluto would bolt right on.

I ran it initially for probably about 4 months before the rear freewheel disintegrated. It took a month for my local bike shop to get this resolved (not for lack of effort on their part) and I ended up upgrading the wheels to not be without the bike for a month. A months wait is not cool but the big problem I have now started when I ordered a set of Vee Snowshoe XLs. Despite the Youtube vid of Felt’s then product manager Scott Sharples explaining that the bike was designed to run 4.8 tyres, mine do not fit. They just squeeze past the chain stays but rub under power.

I contacted Felt GMBH direct about this as there is no longer a Felt distributor for the UK and stuff comes direct from Germany. Felt GMBH explained the clearances that the frame is manufactuered to should clear 4.8 inch tyres (based on a jumbo jim 4.8) and that their own demo bike was currently running said tyres 4.8s with plenty of room. They suggested that perhaps my Snowshoes had come out larger than they say.

OK, so I ordered a set of jumbo jim 4.8s that finally turned up early this year. Unsurprisingly they are the same, in fact they are lightly larger. I went back to Felt GMBH with this information, including photos. It seems clear to me my frame must be out of spec’. Felt GMBH bizarrely have told me that my frame is fine and there is nothing wrong with it. After a few weeks of back and forth they have now decided to ignore me.

After looking for some sort of head office address I dropped Felt US a message via Facebook. They promptly responded by stating clearly that my bike should fit 4.8 inch tyres and said that would get Felt GMBH to contact me. I began to think I was getting somewhere! I was wrong Felt GMBH finally got back to me offering a 90% refund for the bike via my shop if that bike is completely original (which surprisingly it’s not any more). They again stated they would not replace the frame as there is nothing wrong with it.

At this point I’m very frustrated and both Felt US and Felt GMBH haven’t responded to any of my further emails/messages.

So if anyone is looking at a Felt fatbike (or Felt bike for that matter) please bear this in mind. It’s a shame as I love the bike and the way it rides but the deeply frustrating customer service and refusal to acknowledge a fault (even after acknowledging it) makes it hard to recommend the bike to anyone.

John

Impressive to design a bike with a 197mm hub and 120mm bb that doesnt take 4.8 tyres. What rims did you put on it as that may have altered tyre clearance.

I have the DTswiss BR2250 wheelset so same 80mm width as what the bike came with. I even tried 4.8s on the original wheels before I sold them and it was just the same. I think the BB is 100mm but the cranks are the longest axle Turbines to clear the stays.

I noticed mine rubbed at 30psi (setting up tubeless), but when I dropped to 10psi they were fine.

100mm bottom bracket with short chainstays is hardly a recipe for tyre clearance, surlys ict has a 132mm bb for this reason. You might get 4.8s on with narrower rims but it kind of defeats the point.

5thElefant, probably confirms that there is something wrong with mine then. I’m running tubeless 8ish at the front and 9ish at the back. They have confirmed as much by telling me that 4.8s should fit. What tyres are you running?

akira, When looking at fatbikes I have to say I looked at wheel axles rather than BBs. I thought that the whole point of 197 was to get chain clearance for 5 inch tyres. I assumed the BB would be sized accordingly or else there is little point. Looking at the cranks the combination of spacers on the spindle and on the BB looks to add up to 132mm. why didn’t they just put in a bigger BB shell?

Same tyres as you on stock rims.

JJ4.8s or Snowshoe XL 4.8s?

Sorry, Jumbo Jim 4.8s.

How much clearance have you got on the chain stays with them?

Not much. From memory a few mm.

Can’t be much if airing up causes a major rub. When I was debugging the tubeless setup I ran it at 15psi. That caused it to rub at speed on a road descent (or that’s when I heard it).

The width of the BB shell and hub is a bit of a red herring. My Moonlander manages to comfortably clear 4.8s with a 135mm rear hub and a 100mm BB. Which is to say, done properly your arrangement should offer up enough room, unless it’s on the piss as you suggest perhaps.

Sounds pretty marginal for you as well. They suggested something like 7mm clearance either side on their design specs. Here is one of my original emails,

AW: Felt double double 30 tyre clearance
Felt GmbH (info@felt.de) Add to contacts 10/12/2015 Keep this message at the top of your inbox
To: ‘John Gatrell’
info@felt.de
Outlook.com Active View
Felt Double Double Fat bike

Play video
Scott from Felt Bicycles introduces us to the 2015 Felt Double Double Fatbikes. http://www.feltbicycles.com/USA/2015/Bikes/mountain/fat-bike.aspx
00:02:50
Added on 20/10/2014
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Hi John,

finally we received an answer on your request from our Product Managers;

Per our model and the factory drawing, with a “model” tire, which was 118mm in cross sectional casing diameter and a 100mm tread width, there was 6mm plus change at both sstay and cstay. Depending on frame size, the sstay clearance can change because of the location of the bend and the trajectory of the sstay plane wrt the ST intersection. Most tire mfg drawings/models have tolerances in the +,- 3 to 5mm range which has a huge effect on these tight clearances.

We agree with that the frame appears to be within specification. Factory tolerances and tread patterns will both play a part in this issue. Plus, the fact that fat tires being run at low pressures tend to move inside the frame a lot, doesn’t help things. We know the low pressures are what help to define the fat bike ride, but higher pressures should help to prevent rubbing on the frame.

We hope that we could help you this information, and to clear up a little bit the Situation and the problem you probably had with your Bike.

Since the Jumbo jim 4.8s and snowshoe XLs come out at about 115 they should be fine apparently

Funny dishing or odd crank set on moonlander to avoid chain rubbing on tyre?

They suggested something like 7mm clearance either side on their design specs.

Probably about right, at sensible pressures at least.

I’ll waggle a 6mm allen key in the gap tomorrow and see how it looks.

It’s also pretty frustrating that I have a not insubstantial amount of £250 worth of tyres that I wont be able to send back and am reluctant to yet sell.

The moonie has both an offset wheel and chainset.

Sounds to me that the frame is misaligned / out of spec. Sale of Goods Act – it’s the shop’s responsibility to sort this, reject the bike as being not fit for purpose and get them to deal with Felt or whoever. If you paid with a credit card, get the card company to sort it.

I could try to take it back but it’s no longer original. And whilst I am fully aware of the sale of goods act you and I both know that after this long it’s easier said than done.

Do you still have the worn out wheel? Refit it and send the bike back.

I think offering you 90% refund is pretty good given that you have had the bike since May last year.

Take the money and buy a Surly. They are on offer at the moment and great value for money.

I no longer have the old wheelset. Perhaps they would refund me some of the money for the frame and fork? Although as mentioned my last few emails have been ignored.

Not having a fatbike i’m not sure how much difference having 4.8″ tyres would make over the standard 4″ (as per spec on website), and it’s a pity that you can’t fit the two larger sets tyres you bought into the frame. Maybe you should sell the wrong sized tyres and continue enjoying the bike for what it is.

p.s. Future proofing an mtb? Your new to this right? 😛

Do they have Facebook and Twitter.. Nothing like hitting up social media feeds to draw some attention. Phone them every day at the same time.. Just be polite, persistent and a bit of a nuisance. Hope you get it sorted.

Euro,

Watch this,

Also this is a copy paste from Facebook messages;
Hi John, Based on the information you provided, our product manager says the tires should fit. I’ve contacted my colleagues in the European office to see what the next steps are. I’ll be in touch soon!

Are you really telling me you wouldn’t be a little annoyed if you were in my position.

No you can’t future proof everything but we all try our best to buy things that won’t be obsolete next month.

Can’t you get the shop to check the frame to see if it is straight?

It’s tricky with all the parts changes but if they’ve offered a 90% refund for an original spec bike they seem to be accepting the idea of a refund so it’s weird that they have a problem with it as frame only

Not entirely relevant but…

Plus, the fact that fat tires being run at low pressures tend to move inside the frame a lot, doesn’t help things. We know the low pressures are what help to define the fat bike ride, but higher pressures should help to prevent rubbing on the frame

This flies in the face of experience quoted above no? HTF does a tyre move in the frame?

Higher pressure means lateral forces on the tyre from the ground are transferred to the wheel which then flexes, causing rubbing.

I hate MFR BS 😡

It is tight. It’s the largest frame they do in case that makes any difference.

That’s a 2.5mm allen key. A 2mm doesn’t jam fit, so something like 2.25mm clearance. The seatstays have loads of clearance in comparison (but I didn’t measure them).

The tyres measure up at 4.5″.

Get your bike shop involved.

It’s hard to say whether there is an issue with the frame or whether your upgrades don’t work with it.

If the shop has another frame that you could fit the wheel to, you would have a strong case if it was different.

If not, you need to sell the Jim’s on the classifieds and get some skinnier rubber in there.

Update, I had an email today saying that they had seen this thread and apologising for lack of comm. They are sending a new bike to my local bike shop, if my wheels fit then I can have it, if not then they will refund me. Sounds like some good, positive progress.

John

That’s a result. 😀

yay!!

Fingers crossed for the happy ending with the new frame and a provisional well done Felt!:D

New frame would be fine, happy ending is expecting a bit much though.

It’s good to hear that Felt seem to be doing the decent thing and I hope it all works out well. There do seem to be a few fatbikes sold as capable of running 5″ tyres, when what the really mean is the it “might” run 5″ tyres, if you are lucky, and choose the right tyre, and run the right pressure and convert to 1x and… I’m tending to think that, unless it comes with 5″ tyres, it’s safest not to assume it can actually run them!

Result!….. and well done Felt for waking up!