I like the MX5 suggestion.

Audi A4 2.0 tfsi – 270/280bhp easy on a £300 re-map

Insurance is strange. My Focus ST Estate is half the price to insure than my C-Max 1.6 diesel. It has more than twice the power and is worth a lot more.

Audi A4 2.0 tfsi – 270/280bhp easy on a £300 re-map

Boring compared to an MX5. Very boring. It’s not all about power and your insurance co. will want to know all about the remap.

I’d have to argue with the ‘poor’ handling diesels. How fast do you want to go round corners? Mondeos are fab handling cars, plenty good enough for realistic road speeds. They will out handle most of the VW/Audi cars that everyone seems to think are so wonderful. I’m constantly amazed by the number of people in ‘fast’ cars who tip-toe round corners. “A fast car is fast in a straight line, a fast driver is fast round the bends”. I drive a Freelander with the SD4 engine and have huge fun in the twisties. Rolls a bit, mind ….

Classic limited mileage insurance policy might help – ran an old Saab 900 turbo on this, pretty cheap premium and great to drive apart from the disconcerting turbo lag. Big hatchback too for bikes or kipping in when young.
Drove an old Fiesta 1.25 for a while, I’m sure they lie about their power output, seemed very quick at the time for a tiddly engine

Classics seem to be the way to go. I was quoted only £60 more for a 944 than I was for the Hyundai I eventually bought… £425 when I was about 28 with not much NCD.
My father, albeit a lot older than me, was quoted less than £200 for a Lotus Elan, the 90s FWD one.

I’d have to argue with the ‘poor’ handling diesels. How fast do you want to go round corners? Mondeos are fab handling cars, plenty good enough for realistic road speeds. They will out handle most of the VW/Audi cars that everyone seems to think are so wonderful.

It’s all relative. Something like an MX5 will handle much better than any front drive rep-mobile. Mondeos do handle well, but only compared to other dull wagons. Anyway who says VW/Audis handle well? Most are very average at best. Lots of Audis I’ve driven have been sub-par on both steering feel and ride quality. Test drove a Passat the other day and it was frankly shite.

Also not a matter of how fast you corner, it’s more about how much fun you are having. That’s the thing with cars like the MX5 – they are immense fun at sane speeds. Put it this way, I’d rather do a track day in an MX5 than a Mondeo.

only £60 more for a 944

Now there’s another great handling fun car to drive. But you need help buying one if you don’t know anything about them. Most are rusty old junk now, but the few cared for examples can be awesome.

Also not a matter of how fast you corner, it’s more about how much fun you are having. That’s the thing with cars like the MX5 – they are immense fun at sane speeds. Put it this way, I’d rather do a track day in an MX5 than a Mondeo.

This is the crux of it. An RS6 will handle better, but without risking a hell of a lot of trouble (and/or driving like a complete tosser) it’s going to be less exciting on public roads than (something like) an MX5.

What’s the insurance like on an early Lotus Elise?

njee talking complete sense!!! 😉

I’ve had Evo’s and Imprezas that would leave many cars for dead in the curves but my old MK2 escort was ten times the fun!

What’s the insurance like on an early Lotus Elise?

probably not substantially worse than an mx-5, particularly if you joined the owner’s clubs, but you’re looking at getting on for 10k to get in to a decent one.
garage local to me has a nice looking V2.5 mx-5 for just over 3.5k, hard top and low mileage.
i know we’re not comparing apples to apples, but even so, seems like a lot of fun for the money to me.

probably not substantially worse than an mx-5, particularly if you joined the owner’s clubs, but you’re looking at getting on for 10k to get in to a decent one.

Or the Vauxhall VX220 “version”? Could be even cheaper and just as good (if not better) by many accounts

Or how about a Honda S2000? They handle and are pretty quick if you razz the engine hard. Not sure on insurance though.

MG ZT 260?

Porsche Boxster. They most definitely handle well and a decent early 2.7 would easily be sub £10K (what was the budget?). Again not sure on insurance implications at your age. Future depreciation would be minimal and not so expensive to run if you avoid buying a lemon in the first instance.

Again, MX5. They rock.
The grip around the corners is phenomenal and very controllable when it lets go.

Something that young people hate.

I gave up and got a motorbike, 0-60 in sub 4 seconds and the bike and insurance combined cost me less than the insurance for a crap car 😆

It’s all relative. Something like an MX5 will handle much better than any front drive rep-mobile. Mondeos do handle well, but only compared to other dull wagons. Anyway who says VW/Audis handle well? Most are very average at best. Lots of Audis I’ve driven have been sub-par on both steering feel and ride quality. Test drove a Passat the other day and it was frankly shite.

Also not a matter of how fast you corner, it’s more about how much fun you are having. That’s the thing with cars like the MX5 – they are immense fun at sane speeds. Put it this way, I’d rather do a track day in an MX5 than a Mondeo.

Completely agree with this. I have owned an MX5 Mk3 (unfortunately not Mk1 or 2), Mondeo 2.0d and now a BMW 3 Series.

The MX5 was fun ish around the bends at slow speeds (although not as nice as a Mk1 or 2.) I bought the Mondeo when I was commuting 140 miles a day, and it did that very well, plus could still go round bends (to a fashion) still understeered though, which is not to do with engine weight, but the fact most road cars are set up to under steer.

Now in a new BM’er. Fantastic compromise between sports car and mile muncher. Unfortunately though to have fun, you are going around corners at probably 2/3 or double the speed of the MX5. Going fwd/rwd/fwd/ and now rwd has made me think I dont want fwd again.

It has opened my eyes to just how badly Audi’s go around corners though, they even use the brakes to automatically assist and help the car going around corners (some thing they even admit in their brochures).

Seat Leon FR DSG – same engine as the golf, cheaper to insure – love mine. can remap up to 240-250bhp

I agree that an MX5 would be more fun on a track. I also agree that 3 series are fun, I’ve had two touring versions and really liked them. I was just trying to make the point that Mondeos are excellent handlers and most VW/Audi Group products are not, IME.

ow badly Audi’s go around corners though, they even use the brakes to automatically assist and help the car going around corners (some thing they even admit in their brochures).

So do all cars with ESP, your bmw included.

You can turn it off in some cars if you want to see how much work the car is doing to make you feel like a good driver…

Jam bo – ok googled BMW have it too lol. (cornering brake control)

Doesn’t stop the fact that the chassis is way better than Audi. The Way BMW word it is as if you make a tit of driving around a corner, I wont let you stab on the brakes too hard. Audi words I as a sytem to help the car steer around the corner…

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RcIfUoaGQ80

All marketing bollocks. I drove a new 3 series recently and it practically drove itself there was so much electronic gizmos going on.

Can you get a Mini Cooper S?

My Cooper S Clubman was only £158 a year to insure, admittedly with full no claims and over 25, but still..

Jambo – yep, but it is very easy to turn them off, half esp is great fun, you can drive around corners with opposite lock on and not have yo worry about the tail going too far full off is more interesting but still very controllable 😛

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/mazda-mx-5-questions

Hate to blow the trumpet again but they are good. My wife was 24 when we got ours and it is cheapish to insure at about £600. I think it was about £450 for me on my own (26, 1 year’s no claims but 7 years driving as a named driver/company vehicles).

I own a 2012 Skoda Fabia of medium-sportiness. They are about £6k and about £450 to insure also. It goes lots faster round bends than the MX5, since it has big low profile tyres and modern suspension. But it’s nowhere near as exciting. To call an MX5 fast is exaggerating quite a bit.

Clio 172. Insurance will barely matter when you’ve only spent £1,500 to get a mint one. Obviously not RWD, but will still happily get the tail out 😉

My Lotus Elise 111R (the 190hp version) is £200 fully comp (I didn’t miss a 0 off the end). This is parked on drive in Herts and regularly commuted into London.

as is a Panda 100BHP they don’t get thrown through hedges like Clio RenultSports or Elise’s.

I have never known an Elise to be binned (apart from at track days).

Have you ever driven one? Have you ever been a passenger in one? I reckon you could take pretty much any corner in one 50% more quickly than you could in a Panda. The handling is sooooo far superior to something like a Panda that they can comfortably handle way more than most drivers would dare push them to.

Oh, if you do go MX5 and want lower insurance the 1.6s are still a laugh.

johndoh – Member

I have never known an Elise to be binned

erm, some pristine looking Elise’s that have never been binned. 😀

Problem with cars like Elise’s on public roads is that you are going so much faster than you would in a ‘normal’ car, because they grip/handle so well that when it does go wrong you suddenly realise that A) you aren’t Seb Loeb and B) that lampost is only a few feet away.

Probably not what the OP is after, but I reckon Toyota/Subaru got it right with that GT86 coupe thing. Not that powerful with skinny tyres and fun to drive in everyday situations. Stick it on a track and you’ll be left for dead, but that’s not what it’s meant for.

Problem with cars like Elise’s on public roads is that you are going so much faster than you would in a ‘normal’ car, because they grip/handle so well that when it does go wrong you suddenly realise that A) you aren’t Seb Loeb and B) that lampost is only a few feet away.

The middle pic was a pair of journalists on a track in Belgium.

Driving the Elise every day isn’t a problem. I don’t find myself going too fast, in fact it’s just as nice to drive it slowly. More people can admire me that way. 🙂

I’ll write more later, just leaving work.

Problem with cars like Elise’s on public roads is that you are going so much faster than you would in a ‘normal’ car, because they grip/handle so well that when it does go wrong you suddenly realise that A) you aren’t Seb Loeb and B) that lampost is only a few feet away.

Not sure I agree with this at all – you might dare to go go 25% quicker than you would in another car (because you know they handle better), but they handle 50% better. Along with driving one on a track day and been driven by a mate in his, I have also been in one as a passenger with an amateur racer on a closed road (my brother in law over in California) and he was reaching astronomical speeds – so much so I actually got cramp in my feet from being tense – but as he was driving along he was saying he wasn’t really pushing on because he didn’t know the road and he’d go much quicker on a track 😯

I was actually relieved to get out of the car!

I have never known an Elise to be binned (apart from at track days).

i take issue with that one too! they routinely went off in to the hedge – hence the suspension changes to the S2 cars, so drivers used to FWD wouldn’t disappear in to the scenery before they’d started to enjoy themselves. 😀
anyway, this thread appears to have digressed somewhat from the OP’s requirements!

I used to have a B7 A4 3.0 (233) TDI Quattro. Certainly not as involving a drive as a BMW 3 series 330d or 335d and the feel from the steering was dead in comparison. However my current A6 again a 3.0 Quattro compares very favourably with its comparable 5 series… Steering still lacks feel but the handling is comparable. I will test drive some of the xdrive BMW models when I change the car. It will be interesting to see if they lose some of their dynamic feel to gaining grip…?

As for less ‘premium’ cars cornering more quickly than VAG cars. I think that’s right in my experience. I consistently corner at speeds where I can brake in the distance I see. So many people don’t…

Now in a new BM’er. Fantastic compromise between sports car and mile muncher. Unfortunately though to have fun, you are going around corners at probably 2/3 or double the speed of the MX5.

I get your point, but I think your factoring is a bit optimistic. So a 50 mph corner in an MX5 is a 100 mph corner in a 3 series BMW? I think not. Probably more like 50 v 65 in reality, although it feels much faster. To double your cornering speed requires truly immense difference in grip levels.

Audis saloons are notoriously bad handling engines too far forward- but they are nice cruising cars with lots of interior space due to this. ..so saying a mundano is better than that is like saying its better than my land rover at cornering. Rs models handle better as does the 3.2v6 tt – the 2.0tdi was a serious let down although the owner said the tires on it were shit.

A mondeo is not a good handling car when pitched against good handling cars.