Solo cheers – Ive got a fridge full of coconut milk as its on offer at sainsburys, quite high in sat fat but may give that a try next time out.

Im literally stepping on a train to paris for a long weekend so will catch up with this thread when Im back. Quite interesting to hear other points of view.

[coffee break reply]
BD. Not coconut milk, but coconut water. It has a moderate amount of carbs in it. I don’t like the taste, so mix it with lemon juice (not concentrate) and a pinch of coffee 😉

But as above, you seem to be riding far and quick as you are. Good stuff !
[/coffee break reply]

Don’t know about the science of it, but I do know what works for me.

When I was a lad in the 50s, I was told the best way to lose weight without losing tone (ie improve climbing ability), was to get up early, cup of coffee, and then ride a loop that takes you to the edge of bonk. (Apparently it’s important not to bonk.) On return, have a breakfast of 2 poached eggs and toast.

I have found it works nicely, weight just drops off. Any time I start feeling a bit sluggish I do it, and it definitely makes me feel good. (I generally don’t worry about what my actual weight measurement is, but it definitely averages down using this process over a couple of months.)

It seems a simple process, caffeine to kickstart the day, a medium effort ride to get your body working, and protein after the ride to keep the muscles replenished, while a raised metabolism processes your body fat for fuel for the rest of the day.

How it actually works is irrelevant, simply because it does work.

No doubt there are more scientific and carefully planned systems for professional athletes with nothing else to do with their day, but this is something that anyone can do without worrying about esoteric supplements or careful measuring of food etc.

bigdawg – Member
solo – you seem to have studied this in great depth – you’re someone I could sit down with over a (home made) curry and discuss this in depth.

Something Ive kept out of this is (as its not what the thread is about) that compared to a lot of people I have a relatively low carb diet – I only eat carbs that I need, in general most people eat far too many carbs, and hence end up carrying excess weight. My carbs come from things like sweet potatoes, chickpeas, brown rice, fruit, usually (other than fruit) low GI based foods.

Something else I realised last night – on my ‘cheat’ day (saturday) I do eat a huge bowl of muesli with bananas yoghurt honey and coconut for breakfast. Now the cheat day is saturday – so effectively on a saturday I eat a big carb based breakfast, wraps with refried beans peppers and cheese midday and then something like the wraps for dinner – what Im saying is I eat more food the day before my high intensity days than any day during the week, so my sundays are probably my least fasted days in terms of calories consumed in the 24 hours beforehand (I usually ride to work and back every day).

Regarding carbs in drinks I originally stopped using them as they played havoc with my stomach, esp mid race, so swapped to Hi5 zero. That goes part of the way to rehydration which I personally think is more important (although Im sure there are tests to tell me otherwise) and to date havent had a problem. Something else I noticed with carby drinks is that although you get the initial ‘shot’ of energy when it dropped off power output was less than before i’d drunk it. This way I dont get the spikes of energy and usually end up taking longer stints on the front towards the end of a ride

POSTED 9 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

Whether you eat a higher percentage of carb/fat/protein etc doesn’t it all simply boil down to when your head hits the pillow/ in calorific excess = store as fat/ in calorific deficit = dig into fat stores?

Ok just completed my second fasted ride (started this week) this morning. I’m posting the pic below from a couple of weeks ago mostly to kick-start myself/keep me going on this. End of next week I’m hoping to see an improvement. It says Athletic centre on the receipt. I actually go there to sit in the Jacuzzi/sauna and have nothing to do with the gym-side 😀

Hora shame those scales don’t do a bodyfat% measurement to watch the fat levels go down. BMI isn’t a great indicator as bodybuilders packed in muscle have high BMI’s.

Did you cut the milk and sugar from the pre ride coffee to keep it a true fast?

I didn’t have a coffee before the first ride.

I did this morning- black, no sugar. I set off like a train but then sapped/felt knackered on the second half.

shame those scales don’t do a bodyfat% measurement

I think it does. I’ll check it next Friday.

To come back to this…

johnj2000 – Member
I’m a bit confused by all this fasted riding. As far as I know the body carries, as stated above, a reserve of glycogen which is the fuel used first of all. Now I have heard it can take up to 3 days to get rid of this

My research has indicated that the ideal state of fat burning is reached after 12-18 hours of fasting.
– last meal at 9pm, fasted ride at 9am? ideal fat scorching time. You could even have the last meal earlier to enable the 12 hour window without food for exercise.

“Intermittent fasting and stubborn fat loss

How can intermittent fasting then selectively target stubborn body fat more effectively than other diets? Well, to target stubborn body fat we need to activate b2-receptors while deactivating a2-receptors. Intermittent fasting achieves this by the following mechanisms.

1. Fasting increases catecholamine levels.

2. Fasting increases abdominal subcutaneous blood flow, which means that catecholamines will have an easier time reaching those hard-to-get areas.

3. The low insulin level reached during the fast inhibits a2-receptors. A greater time spent in the low insulin state equals a greater time spent in a state where fat can be mobilized from stubborn areas. Now you’re probably thinking “why not just go on a low carb diet” to keep insulin low, but keep in mind that triglycerides inhibit HSL in a similar manner as insulin.

4. My research has indicated that the ideal state of fat burning is reached after 12-18 hours of fasting. Coupled with high levels of catecholamines, increased blood flow to stubborn regions, and low insulin for a2-receptor inhibition, this time interval is the “golden age” of stubborn fat mobilization.

http://www.leangains.com/2010/06/intermittent-fasting-and-stubborn-body.html”

and the final bit of info in regards to fat burning and missing breakfast…

“
“We see increases in three of the four hormones driving lipolysis, indicating a propensity towards fat burning. Somewhere around 12-18 hours, lipolysis becomes a major energy pathway, producing energy from body fat. “

Yes. In fact, after an overnight fast, 2/3 of the energy burnt are free fatty acids. Eat breakfast and you’ll be putting the brakes on this process, of course.”

Hora. You said you are 6’2″ !
😡

Probably/hopefully first thing in a morning- so technically true? 😉

Well at least I go onto the scales in socks/no shoes 😀

3. The low insulin level reached during the fast inhibits a2-receptors. A greater time spent in the low insulin state equals a greater time spent in a state where fat can be mobilized from stubborn areas. Now you’re probably thinking “why not just go on a low carb diet” to keep insulin low, but keep in mind that triglycerides inhibit HSL in a similar manner as insulin.

Low insulin levels- is this what causes ‘the bonk’?

the ideal state of fat burning is reached after 12-18 hours of fasting.

So eat meal at 6pm – ride at 7amish onwards. Surely at 18hours it’ll be seriously into the land of bonking? One poster above said to avoid this?

the ideal state of fat burning is reached after 12-18 hours of fasting.
So eat meal at 6pm – ride at 7amish onwards. Surely at 18hours it’ll be seriously into the land of bonking? One poster above said to avoid this?

You’d only be doing it at 12-13 hour fast.

My last meal is @ 9pm, and i’ll go the the gym to lift weights at 10am on a weekend, 13 hour fast. Only fuel is black coffee. After an hour of weights i’ll head home and break the fast within the next 2 hours. Never any issues with weights.

Fasted riding, similar to above, last meal @ 9pm, ride at 9-10am. Only fuel black coffee, and water on the ride. I can ride for 1-2.5 hours no issues, no bonk. Get back and eat within 2 hours usually.

I think if I were to go on a 3-4.5 hour ride I may get light headed.

But fat stores should be plenty for a 1-2 hour fasted ride.

Another reason for that pre ride black coffee…

” caffeine increases the release of free fatty acids into the blood early in exercise. This increases muscle fat oxidation and decreases carbohydrate oxidation, sparing muscle glycogen.

“You don’t need a lot of caffeine to get the maximum effect,” says Professor Asker Jeukendrup of Birmingham University”

So you can release fatty acids for fuel while maintaining muscle glycogen 😉

Cool. I tend to eat by 6.30pm. Bring on the coffee – I love coffee 😀

hora – Member
…So eat meal at 6pm – ride at 7amish onwards. Surely at 18hours it’ll be seriously into the land of bonking? One poster above said to avoid this?

I did, but my method is based on what I was told in the 50s, so no actual science involved – just empirical and anecdotal opinion.

I don’t know if bonking is to be avoided because of a physiological effect, or simply that if you bonk you are less likely to go out again and ride the next morning.

In other words keep the ride pleasant, just hard enough to know you have done some work but don’t be cruel to yourself, and you’ll jump out of bed looking forward to it each day.

BTW I have milk and sugar in my coffee because I like it that way. I doubt the minuscule amount of sugar and milk makes much difference.

Low insulin levels- is this what causes ‘the bonk’?

I foresee catastrophic info overload is imminent. After which the OP will be found sitting in the corner of a darkened room, hugging a box of crunchy nut cornflakes & whispering comments along the lines of “never again, baby”

No idea if Im losing weight but my riding energy levels are alot better already. Really recommend trying this

@hora Are you doing the 13 hour fasted rides?

Interesting stuff this. I am currently on a stupid diet, actually just broken it for a week but back on it tomorrow morning, and weight has been dropping off. Once I am back to the weight I want to be at which is sub 12st I need to find a way of maintaining and not gaining immediately, this thread may be the answer.

johnj2000 just get straight onto the IF, 16 hour fast, 8 hour feed, and eat normally in the eating window.

Ok update if anyone cares:

All the same route
First ride (no coffee)- felt knackered/tired throughout

Second ride (coffee)- Felt ok first part- knackered/no energy last half

Third ride (coffee)- Legs spun like crazy on their own at first – then calmed down felt ok latter half of ride at a steady pace.

This mornings ride (coffee)- started off way to fast but just didn’t slow down at all. Weird. I was riding as hard as I could. At the end my legs were complaining like crazy but I had more energy/power to throw at them than they could cope.

In John Lewis last night- tried two different scales. 15stone. I normally book at circa 15stone 8. The weigh slip^ was after a long sauna sesh (so slightly skewered). I’ll weigh myself on the gym scales though- just to be sure

FOUR rides and I feel a real marked-difference.

I think its important to do the exact same route so you can see at what point you suffer/improve.

Next step is improve my diet and do ^ rides twice a week max.

How tall are you?

6ft 1.6

What’s your ride? Sorry if I missed it earlier in thread. Road? How far?

Cheers

Just 23 miles and road. I don’t think I’d have managed to do an off road ride (or had the willpower to face it more than once). If that makes sense?

I bet you could get away with even less. 15miles- combine it into a commute.

You can do a 5 to 10 mile ride if desired and interval train to up the intensity. 2 mins all out. 1 min recovery as an example. This can be as effective as 3 to 4 times the distance at a steady low heart rate pace

You can buy instant coffee, make it the night before and put it in a Thermos flask.

Takes about 5 seconds to drink.

This thread has inspired me. Am doing a 13k before low-carbs breakfast every morning now. Not sure of progress yet, give it two weeks I reckon.

i commute fasted every day, 22K – your body gets used to it, and yes you initially drop a ton of weight then stop.
i think its mainly because my body cheats my brain and i just end up eating all my calories at night that i need for the next day.
i dont mind this, but i’m just saying the body will cheat you a bit, unless you mix it up a little with fasted / non fasted weeks / day

The IF 16/8 seems a doable thing @cruzcampo. Thanks for pointing me in that direction, i will start that at during my holiday in a couple if weeks and see how it works out.

how long do you have to ride to make a difference ?

I commute every morning 15k, 35 minutes , with no food , and no weight loss at all .

Back2basics I agree

cchris2lou – Member
how long do you have to ride to make a difference ?
I commute every morning 15k, 35 minutes , with no food , and no weight loss at all .

Try upping the intensity to the edge of bonk, and eat when you arrive.

Ok a question, can you lose weight on the 16/8 without doing he fasted exercise? I am considering cmng off my current diet before reaching goal weight as I am sick to the back teeth of it. Problem is the chances of me exercising in the mornng is slim so just weighing up if I can eat away at the last 9lbs with the 16/8 or whether I need to stick tis out to goal weight and then use 16/8 to maintain?

I think that would be a decent plan, if you can fit in a ride or two, even better. The thing I like about all these fasting type regimes, is that it doesn’t really impact my family, as I’m not buying obscure beans and pulses etc, like the likes of idave needed. You eat the same as the gpfamily, just less of it.

Ok a question, can you lose weight on the 16/8 without doing he fasted exercise? I am considering cmng off my current diet before reaching goal weight as I am sick to the back teeth of it. Problem is the chances of me exercising in the mornng is slim so just weighing up if I can eat away at the last 9lbs with the 16/8 or whether I need to stick tis out to goal weight and then use 16/8 to maintain?

yep, its just another way of calorie control. if for instance you need to cut calories to say 2000 per day, i find it easier to eat 2 bigger meals per day than 3 smaller ones. ive been eating like this for 2 or 3 years now, its just basically ‘missing out breakfast’. i find it soooo easy i really dont think ill ever change now.

@sadexpunk but that does sound like a maintenance plan rather than weight loss otherwise you would have vanished from sight after 3 yrs on it 😉

@sadexpunk but that does sound like a maintenance plan rather than weight loss otherwise you would have vanished from sight after 3 yrs on it

its whatever i want it to be. i can lose weight, maintain, or slow bulk should i so wish, but whatever i decide to do with my weight i do it 16/8 (it was the leangains site that got me into it). i dont stick firmly to those figures these days, like i say i pretty much just miss breakfast, and often workout fasted just before dins. i also just do what i want if theres nights out or whatever, i dont let it rule my life, but 95% of the time i stick to it.
its really satisfying if im raising calories over 2 meals too! 😀

when i started this i weighed 14 stone. i dropped down to 11 and a half in less than a year, and since then have just very slowly gone up to present weight of 12 and a quarter after a long period of maintaining.

Sounds like it could work.i want to dip under 12 and am currently at 12.9, think it might be the way forward.

it definitely works john, theres no witchcraft, at the end of the day its still just calories in vs calories out. its just a different way of controlling those calories. some people would prefer smaller meals spread throughout the day (id hate to eat small meals), some others (like me) can cope without breakfast easily if it means bigger dindins and tea 🙂

sadexpunk – Member
…theres no witchcraft, at the end of the day its still just calories in vs calories out…

Plus stoking the boiler up to increase the burn rate.