Nice to know that even Elite riders suffer from feelings of inadequacy. Bet you’re still faster than 99% of ‘normal’ riders though.

Maybe. But I think that however quick you are you will always think of yourself as ‘average.’ I regulary get a kicking from the likes of Oli Beckinsale, to finish on the same lap is good for me, so I think of him as ‘very fit’. But talk to him and he thinks of himself as ‘fairly fit’ and he sees the likes of Absolon as ‘very fit’! Modest chapand a top bloke.
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Does it work the same as the road system. have you retained enough points in the season to stay elite? If not do you go down to expert?

Personally think you should race in the category you have your licence in? Surely they’d know you are elite
Not quite. In theory the top (I forget how many) Experts, Juniors and Masters will go up to Elite at the end of the year, the slowest Elites will go off to Expert/Masters/Vets etc.
The top Sport riders and next few Masters and Juniors will go to Expert with the lowest Experts off to Masters/Sport/Vets.
How much this actualy happens I don’t know.
For example, I am one of the slowest Elites but have done a nmber of races so actually have enough points to stay Elite, ahead of those who are quicker but have done fewer races. (Top 8 results are counted for the rankings, which should remove this factor, but not everyone has even done 8 races, hence this problem)
Anyway, I can opt for either an Elite or Masters licence next year as I am now old. I have not yet renewed my licence so as of 1 January technically can’t ride Elite until I do and would have to go into an unlicenced category, such as Open or even Fun.
Hope that all makes sense…

But I think that however quick you are you will always think of yourself as ‘average.’ I regulary get a kicking from the likes of Oli Beckinsale, to finish on the same lap is good for me, so I think of him as ‘very fit’. But talk to him and he thinks of himself as ‘fairly fit’ and he sees the likes of Absolon as ‘very fit’!

Yes, but I think that’s kind of the point. You’ll think of yourself as average so long as you are racing in the correct class. If you’re regularly winning your class, you should probably be in the next class up, at which point you’d be average again. Unless you’re regularly winning Elite races, of course, but I don’t think too many of us will ever have to worry about that!

The only race I have ever done was the classic weekender this year, it was super fun. However on the Sunday I was nearly beaten by a tandem with a small girl on the back, but I did manage to beat one of my two mates (he had a mechanical!) and a random who I had my own mini battle with. The race was about me an the people around me, As it always is in my head when out with mates or just out dicking about on my bike. That’s why it’s FUN. My only training is running out for a fag during the adverts or for last orders. So the fact that I totally owned that tandem (which properly had a mechanical/stopped for a coffee), that started dead last. Made me quite pleased with myself, as i would never have pedalled as hard for so long with out them bearing down on me for the last lap. Next year am gona enter as a ten year old (im 38) because they only had to do 2 laps. Is that sporting?

FWIW, Im a vet and race in this catagory, the top ten times in our races are usually faster then the experts/or v similar. The winner is on parr with the elites FFS !!!!

I tried my first race in Fun as i had no idea what to expect. Have raced in Vets ever since. Next one is as Grand Vet though 🙁

Im a vet and race in this catagory, the top ten times in our races are usually faster then the experts/or v similar. The winner is on parr with the elites FFS !!!!

Good point. Even more noticable in Masters, the top 10 in that category could probably get into the top 20-30 in an Elite race, based on lap times.
However, remember that a Vet doing similar lap times to Elites will be in a 3 lap race rather than a 6 lap race for example. It’s not uncommon for the Junior men to actually have the fastest laps of the day, they did at the National Champs this year!

Yeh but being a veteran I seem to becoming more of a fast diesel engine now so can still sustain a really fast pace for a good few hrs after all the young “whippets” start to fade(although I have lost a few percent of mega top end).

Got 5th in the Elite/Expert catagory in the solo Wiggle Enduro six a few years ago.

I only entered as a elite/expert solo as they had no other spaces left! 😀

Just enjoy the race within a race that is the essential experience for almost everybody within our largely amateur sport. There’s no point getting upset about varying abilities because the very nature of racing.

I remember doing my first race in Fun and genuinely having no idea what it would be like or how I would do. It can be pretty intimidating for first timers, but you quickly learn looks can be deceiving in terms of bikes, kit, physique, attitude, and even the courses.

I would suggest viewing the various cats as menu options because which cat you ride is more about what suits you rather than some objective measure of how fast you are. I’ve ridden in Sport for years. At one point I was a podium contender having progressed from Fun, Novice/Open, and the back of the Sport pack. By this point I was old enough to be riding Masters. More than anything though my choice was mainly driven by convenience. I didn’t want to get up early for Masters, especially as I didn’t have a car, and I didn’t want to ride an extra lap because it knackered me enough as it was, especially as I still smoked. I’m now old enough to ride Vets, but I still ride Sport, and now I come mid pack.

You may be interested to know that Gorrick changed the name of Open from Novice after I got accused of pot hunting after coming back from a year of non cycling and injury. I campaigned on here amongst other places that Novice was used by people for a wide variety of reasons, but people were getting hung up on non Novice riders competing in Novice. As I hope is still the case, Open caters to all comers. It’s an essential avenue for riders returning to racing or from injury, and some Juniors ride it as their 2nd race of the day to get a bit more value out of their day in regards to distance and experience in a bigger field.

Finally, most racers have similar abilities and their training is a weekly ride or two, and perhaps cycling to work. Therefore the Open and Sport cats are the most popular. They’re fun, challenging, the big field experience, just the right length for most, conveniently timed, and not too serious. I remember contemplating the moves up in category from Fun to Novice, and then from Novice to Sport. It was pretty intimidating because you saw the times and thought not only am I adding a lap, but I also need to ride each lap faster. It may not be a challenge that certain people wish to take up, just as I didn’t fancy taking on Expert or turning up early to race in a Masters full of ex Experts and Elites. I reiterate, XC racing is an amateur sport which we all do just for fun.

only slightly OT Northwind talking about m/cycle trackdays

So from that day on I went into the fast group, where most people were not bellends.

the few I’ve done its intermediates that have all the crashes. A mixture of overenthusiastic fragile egos, heroes and wannabes. Fast group full of racers and slick, talented riders, slow/novice full of people who left their ego at the sign-in desk when they said novice, and those of us on road bikes who need to be able to ride home again without binning it or getting skittled.

Back on topic, there have always been and will always be sandbaggers, dont let it spoil it for you though. Unless you came 4th you havent been ‘cheated’ out of a podium and as others have said its the race-within-a-race that gets you motivated, not the guy thats half a lap ahead of you.

From what I have found in DH type events masters is more competitive than any other 🙂

Over here in Tas there are some Local XC 1hr races with A,B,C & D cats, no prizes for cats just an end of season most improved (and most whinging about being moved up a cat) In the end 1st race just go with it, if you win or beat most of the next cat move up. I only went to see how I was progressing really. Too damm hot & dusty with far too many people who couldn’t ride down a hill in the last one so I bailed halfway for the BBQ & Beer that was on.

FWIW, Im a vet and race in this catagory, the top ten times in our races are usually faster then the experts/or v similar. The winner is on parr with the elites FFS !!!!

Not really sure that this is relevant as Veteran and Master etc are age related categories, not ability. There’s nothing to stop people over 30 racing Elite (half the top end of the field probably are over 30) and nothing to stop the the top Vets racing elite (Nick Craig is 42 and still races Elite).

Some people like to win stuff, even if it means moving to a category that allows them to do it, some people like to test themselves by racing so race in the right cat for them, even if it gets them a royal kicking! I am an average Elite rider and 37 next year so getting towards being able to race Vet if I want (could race Master now if I chose to) but I’ll continue to race Elite as long as I can, as I’d rather finish mid pack against the best riders, than potentially boss a lower cat for the glory.

I see this meet at Cannock is based at the tackeroo campsite, I take it it will be the tackeroo single track descent (although it’s all pretty flat) and then back up the fireroad to the campsite, can anyone confirm?
I’ve never raced anything on my bike mainly because I’m tight with cash and don’t have a lot, but also I don’t see the point of paying to ride my bike somewhere when I can somewhere else for free. The cycling I do is mainly by myself or with one other mate, where we bimble out to some rural bits and stop for a smoke 😆 but we have cycled a lot and we can get some very decent speeds up between us. This looks interesting coz it’s not very much money and it’s local to me, so I’ll see you on the starting lineup mattk

I see this meet at Cannock is based at the tackeroo campsite, I take it it will be the tackeroo single track descent (although it’s all pretty flat) and then back up the fireroad to the campsite, can anyone confirm?

I’ve done a lap of the Dog & Monkey while they’ve had a race on at Cannock…while the route crossed the official trail in 1 or 2 places near the campsite, it was a completely separate course. I would guess its mostly fireroad and maybe a bit of cheeky/unofficial singletrack.

Anyone know how long the course is? It says ‘2 laps’ (for the fun cat’) which isn’t particularly useful! Maybe I missed the detail on the website.

5km it says on there = 3.1 miles, so not the biggest lap in the world.

Website reckons about 5km and it’ll take 30 minutes a lap for normal people.

FWIW Cannock XC last year was mostly singletrack and didn’t borrow from FTD trail at all.

Cannock was not pan flat this year.

IMO if your truely average fitness then race sport,

Made me think what average realy is. Average for regular racers would be a solid sport rider for sure. But the same rider doing a large mtb marathon, with a proper spread of people who ride but don’t race would be well into the top 20% of finishers. won’t get into elite riders who think thier “average” 😯

Finally, most racers have similar abilities and their training is a weekly ride or two, and perhaps cycling to work.

No they don’t, the whole point is that there is a colossal range of abilities, from fun riders who struggle to do 2 laps to elites, with absolutely everything in between. There are plenty of mediocre racers doing plenty of training, there are some very quick guys doing less.

It’s pretty rare for an XC course to use an existing trail 100%, if nothing else what’s fun to ride and what works well for a race are not the same thing. That said, courses are rarely “mostly fireroad” unless they’re crap.

Most and similar doesn’t mean the same, think bell curve, so of course there’s variation and extremes.

LOL Yeh, i have the same abilities as you Njee 🙂

oh sorry, we’re similar, we both own bicycles and can both pedal.

Most and similar doesn’t mean the same, think bell curve, so of course there’s variation and extremes.

Not even sure I agree with that, it’s fairly linear. You don’t get 20 minute gaps, then 50 riders in 2 minutes. It’s generally pretty even all through all categories.

A standard bell curve describes normal distribution. But anyway this is probably the least important point of what I said, it really doesn’t matter.

What does matter is encouraging people to come racing and continuing to do so by adding some perspective.

Nick Craig is 42

How many years now? 🙂

A standard bell curve describes normal distribution.

Yes, thanks, that isn’t really what you get in a race. I disagreed, not said I didn’t know what you were talking about.

What does matter is encouraging people to come racing and continuing to do so by adding some perspective.

Aye, it’s lucky Gorrick renamed their categories because of you eh, revolutionised XC racing!

Eh?, actually he’s 43 now….

just entered in enthusiast category. i’m new to xc racing. will the competion be pretty keen in this category?

5km it says on there = 3.1 miles, so not the biggest lap in the world.

Website reckons about 5km and it’ll take 30 minutes a lap for normal people.Thanks chaps, I might enter this…First Timer, or Fun, hmmm…

Well, I understand field sizes grew in the years afterwards, so maybe it might have contributed just a little bit.

I’d rather participate positively so I’ll leave it at that.

The last run and ride at Cannock put some guidlines which category you should enter. It stated that if you finshed in the to 10 in your category in either a regional or national level you should be in the ‘Racer’ category. I usually just place about 30th in category, so entered the lower ‘enthusiast’ category.

Start line of the ‘enthusiast’ race was full of top 10 finishers from all categories. So, to answer the thread, “fast riders race in every category” they don’t have any morals, a win is a win (even if you cheat to get it).

Well, I understand field sizes grew in the years afterwards, so maybe it might have contributed just a little bit.

Meh, it changed in about 2005, there’s not really been much of a change since. My comment was a little tongue in cheek, but it didn’t change because of one rider. For a start people still complain about ‘ringers’ – there was uproar when Rob Lee raced Open (and Master and Elite in the same day), even though he surrendered any prizes.

It stated that if you finshed in the to 10 in your category in either a regional or national level you should be in the ‘Racer’ category

But if you’re top 10 in fun where does that leave you? Take the last Southern XC race…
– 10th in fun (out of 23) did 2 laps at an average of 27 mins/lap
– 10th in Master (out of 26) did 4 laps at an average of 22 mins/lap
– 10th in Elite (out of 23) did 5 laps at an average of 20 mins/lap

Massive range of abilities, similar size fields, all top 10 finishers.

It’s impossible to police, some people will always want to be a little fish in a big pond, whilst others will be content with being the other way around.

If someone is properly clearing up then perhaps a word with the organiser who may suggest people move up, but there are plenty of cases where people can legitimately be in a category and winning. Someone has to after all!

there was uproar when Rob Lee raced Open (and Master and Elite in the same day), even though he surrendered any prizes

He raced in 3 classes ? How did he get on ?

Just looked at the websit mentioned earlier

The course will be around 5km in length and take an average of 20mins (Top riders) 30mins (first timers) to complete

I can’t remember the last time I did an xc race, so my memory is problaby wrong, but those times sound surprising slow to me, more like more what you’d expect from a run than a ride. Has the course got some fairly massive obstacles?

njee20 – Member

Massive range of abilities, similar size fields, all top 10 finishers.

In the last 2 races I did, I beat all the wimmin but did I get a prize? 😉 Where is the girly man class?

I beat all the women in the national champs whilst only managing 2nd in Sport a few years back, hence why combining genders really doesn’t work!

He raced in 3 classes ? How did he get on ?

Won all of them IIRC, it was years ago though, my memory could be failing me!

I can’t remember the last time I did an xc race, so my memory is problaby wrong, but those times sound surprising slow to me

Agreed, <10mph for the slow riders is rather slow.

Agreed, <10mph for the slow riders is rather slow.

I’ll try harder next time 🙁

I would be pretty disappointed if I ran that slow in an off road race.

That clearly should have said “<10mph for the fast riders is rather slow”!

That clearly should have said “<10mph for the fast riders is rather slow”!

I did the Transvesubinne this year, 86km in 10hr54, that average is 4.93mph! (and that includes the last 4-5 miles on the road into Nice at 20+mph) It rather depends on the terrain…