I thought it was hilarious! Arrived in work that morning to see hundreds of of matelows hanging around the NAAFI looking totally lost and like they’d just left the pub/club 😀

Ben,

I reckon that argument worth both ways to because very often those campaigning to keep British heavy industry going and prevent places like the shipyards and vickers closing are thoroughly opposed to. The military industrial complex and arms trading.

Why does that submarine still have union flags on it?

Surely if we leave the UK ben, the rest of the UK can fly what ever flag they like. It would not be Scotlands place to declare that the Saltire should be removed.

I think we should keep the flag as is, just to annoy the Scots….

Ahhhh isn’t that nice ff a little memento of something that would no longer exist after a yes vote

Sounds a bit final. What would not exist gordimhor? Even the ‘great’ leader of the yes campaign is attempting a relaunch. Apparently a social and royal union will still exist. I would not be happy in the least at the breakup of the UK.

What would make you ‘not happy’ athgray? I’d like to turn the question round, from ‘why become in dependant?’ To ‘why remain in the union?’

We are conditioned to believe that the union is normality, when in reality, across the world, independent countries are the norm.

I’ve lived in the west of Scotland all my life, and can’t see what a Westminster mp has done for my area. I’d rather take the gamble, and I admit it’s a **** huge gamble, that a local msp may actually do more for my community than some **** Tory Tarquin.

Would the orange order be pissed off with scotland for breaking up the union?

The Orange Order have already come out against independence.

Does that mean that every catholic will vote Yes?

British imperialism/neocolonialism “needs” a global military reach, the British people don’t.

I’d be interested to know how much it’s cost the UK to protect itself from those who now target it, following recent neocolonial wars. Apart from any other reasons why we shouldn’t have been involved, I’m not convinced we have actually benefited economically.

I wouldn’t have thought so.

Who, in reality, gives a flying **** what the orange order thinks?

There is more to the union than politics, however if we stick to that then I am genuinely frightened. We have recently seen the mob handed approach and vindictive justice dealt out to opponents of the yes campaign. A first minister that refuses to condemn mob rule outright. I worry that reasonable people are being fooled by a leader that hides an anti English sentiment with chubby jovial charm.

Could you be a little less vague?

I worry that reasonable people are being fooled by a leader that hides an anti English sentiment with chubby jovial charm.

Any evidence whatsoever to backup that character assessment?

[video]http://m.youtube.com/results?q=alex%20salmond%20on%20nigel%20farage&oq=alex%20salmond%20on%20nigel%20farage&gs_l=youtube-reduced.3…713.17626.0.18834.28.25.0.3.3.0.193.2346.18j7.25.0…0.0…1ac.1j4.5.youtube-reduced.IHERCOs2O2E#/watch?v=DM6pvNeHNns[/video]
This interview should be considered a national embarrassment. The last comment is priceless! Nothing statesmanlike about the man, just a sense of parochial chippieness.

LOL – that’s the best reason you can come up with for retaining the Union? Farage is a complete dick and deserved all the heckling he got from a crowd that included at least two Englishmen amongst its ringleaders.

Who, in reality, gives a flying **** what the orange order thinks?

+1, and no, I support their team too!!!

Okay, maybe you should explain why I should be embarrassed? He’s right – Farrage got heckled because he’s an odious man, and tried to turn it into a “Scots hate me because I’m English” story, which was bollocks.

And, again, what does liking Alex Salmond or not have to do with independence?

No scotroutes. My wife and kids are better reasons. However if politics is your game then the man above is a good start. He could potentially be our first prime minister. I think Farage is a dick also but you have no right to say who should have a voice in this country. It is also nice of you to point out the nationality of the crowd. It really did not cross my mind.

Of course you can just go down the coastal defence force line with the sole intent of defending coastline (fishery protection etc) and if it really goes belly up phone yer mates just the other side of your southern border.

We wouldn’t really need to call would we – as neither the US, UK-rump, Europe nor NATO would allow any ‘infiltration’ towards their ‘space’.

All Scotland needs is coastal protection and search/rescue – so neither big ships, jets, tanks nor any of the big expensive hardware. Just spend any money on folk, so also keeping down unemployment.

If I was the yes vote I would pay for farage to do a tour tbh

So, explain why independence would be bad for them.

It is also nice of you to point out the nationality of the crowd. It really did not cross my mind.

Sorry – it was you that started with the supposed anti-English sentiments.

Step back from the edge. We are Not voting for one particular person. We are voting for our future.

The MoD are now planning to keep Faslane if Scotland becomes independent:
Athgray that was how this thread started. A story Cameron was quick to deny but still one that came from the UK government typical of the better together campaign so far in that it has sought to alarm people with stories some of which have no basis in fact.
My point about the Union Jack was that it’s rhe UK flag should any one of the member countries leave the UK as it was will no longer exist. Something else may take it’s place maybe some sort social union under the same monarch. You might even call it the United Kingdom but it will be different from the current UK.

I want my family to live in a democracy where peoples views can be listened to and rejected at the ballot box even if they are a dick. This seems not to be your idea of democracy. It seems that my family will also have to be well versed in Scots and Doric terms to be allowed to express a political opinion.

I want my family to live in a democracy where peoples views can be listened to and rejected at the ballot box even if they are a dick.

what like a referendum that sort of thing?

This seems not to be your idea of democracy.

I dont even know who that fallacy is aimed at

It seems that my family will also have to be well versed in Scots and Doric terms to be allowed to express a political opinion.

Its pretty hard to debate as it seems to be driven by emotive arguments with little basis in fact

Good luck scotsroutes

I want my family to live in a democracy where peoples views can be listened to and rejected at the ballot box even if they are a dick.

How’s the Wesminster parliament working right now, do you think? Scots haven’t decided the outcome of a general election since before WWII at least – it doesn’t matter how we vote, we don’t have any effect on the government that rules over us.

So explain how independence would make that situation worse?

😆

That’s not much to ask Athgray I don’t believe civil liberties are really in danger from the yes campaign , ,the snp or even from Alex Salmond ..Mr Farage is another matter . However I do believe he has the right to express his view no matter how half baked and offensive it is.

No single area of a few million voters will ever decide a general election, other than in a few swing constituencies. You could probably say the same about nearly every other area of the UK. Scotland has had great influence at Westminster over the years. Let’s not forget that one Scottish born Prime Minister took us to war in Iraq ably followed up by the next Scottish Prime Minister, all based on false claims ‘sexed up’ by a Yorkshire born self proclaimed Scot, all belonging to a party we overwhelmingly brought to power. The annoying thing is we have the gallus to effectively claim it was someone else’s fault. The SNP are amongst the worst to always twist events to suit their agenda.
If we are independent someone else will be the bad guy, just on a more marginalised scale.

No single area of a few million voters will ever decide a general election, other than in a few swing constituencies

True but however you dress this up Scotland ] and Wales] is not at all Tory but will end up getting Tory led government from time to time.
This will never happen with independence as the few million voters will decide a general election

PS you were arguing

I want my family to live in a democracy where peoples views can be listened to and rejected at the ballot box even if they are a dick.

You seem to now accept that the Union cannot deliver this.

The SNP are amongst the worst to always twist events to suit their agenda.

To be fair you have done exactly that by suggesting that Scotland is responsible for Tony Blair becoming PM and apparently the Iraq War.

It was a statement of fact Ernie, but if you won’t give me that one then can I have the other three? Also, does not change the SNP comment.

Voting for independence isn’t voting for the SNP.

To be fair you have done exactly that by suggesting that Scotland is responsible for Tony Blair becoming PM and apparently the Iraq War.

POSTED 12 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
athgray – Member
It was a statement of fact Ernie

No single area of a few million voters will ever decide a general election

Right so they both did it and yet an area of that size cannot do it

Junkyard.
I have previously said that I think that Holyrood works well. Not going into depth I think West Minster can learn a thing or two from it. I still hang on the hope that things can change there. I just do not like the idea that a line will be drawn that despite what anyone says will divide. There are no guarantees on currency, Europe, Defence, Monarchy, media and a whole range of things that may be different between two countries that I see are the same. I like the being part of a Greater Union that for better or worse puts us on a larger stage. I understand many on here may disagree as is their right.
I take it nobody else from the No camp is on tonight?

I like the being part of a Greater Union that for better or worse puts us on a larger stage

I think I see why Farage was here