I work in Africa a lot and have to say IMHO the biggest problem they have is corruption esp in their leadership – the countries are just run to make the leaders rich in the short term. Until they resolve that issue, there won’t be the structural changes made to enhance the countries prospects.

They don’t have the rule of law and debt isn’t honoured which makes investment very risky – which holds them back. You can negotiate a deal and buy a license (eg for a mobile phone network) and then find that they revoke it after cashing your very large cheque because a rival had ‘better’ connections to the government and stole your license right in front of your face. No comeback, no redress, you just have to hire someone even better connected to steal it back.

Barking mad place…

No amount of money we throw at it will make any difference

Why do people come out with stuff like that ? Is it because it makes us feel a little bit better about the horrific reality that children are dying because they don’t have any food ?

The claim that “no amount of money we throw at it will make any difference” is clearly bollox – an amount of money will make a difference. The UN reckons the amount of $300m over the next 2 months should do it.

There’s no point ‘pretending’ there’s nothing that can be done about it, and that people dying for want of a meal is somehow normal or natural.

And I don’t care whether the cause is bad government, corruption, war, exploitation by the west, drought, floods, population growth, climate change, my mobile phone, or anything else. Right now people are dying and many more are facing death because they don’t have food.

The solution, whatever the cause, is supplying them with food to stop them from dying. Every Human Being on this Earth has a right to food, and if some lack it, then they are right to expect others to provide it. I don’t see this as “charity” I see it as fulfilling obligations and responsibilities – they’re not members of another species ffs.

.

But then again, the ‘cost’ of military operations is not cut and dried because keeping a standing army and civilian support capability costs money even if you don’t send them on operations.

I see the point you’re making, but no, we wouldn’t be spending all that money if we weren’t bombing Libya. Every time we fire a single Brimstone missile at Libya it costs three-quarters of a million pounds. In the first three months of hostilities Britain fired 150 Brimstone missiles at Libya. And every 4 hour mission over Libya in just one Tornado or Typhoon aircraft costs about £100,00 in fuel alone.

Money is always no object at all when it comes to war/killing people. Money suddenly becomes an insurmountable issue when it comes to saving lives.

Well said ernie

It’s strange to read about the famine in east Africa- I live in Southern Ethiopia, and its not being reported on the news here at all.

I probably only live about 400k from the area affected.

In fact, I’ve asked Ethiopian colleagues at the college about it, and they have no knowledge of it all.

I don’t doubt it is real, but its strange that in one of the countries affected, its not known about.

The thing I don’t understand (and I’ve lived here for 18 months) is Ethiopia is incredibly fertile, and there is no signs of any food shortages anywhere I’ve been in the country- quite the opposite in fact. Why isn’t Ethiopia mobilising these food resources to help its own people?

As footflaps says- barking mad place.

[The UN reckons the amount of $300m over the next 2 months should do it.]

do what? the starving woman on the news with 5 starving kids will be an old starving woman with 5 starving kids and 25 starving grandkids in a few years time. the ‘right’ thing to do is to keep them alive on handouts?

I don’t think anyone is disagreeing about doing something now ernie. Maybe popstars could all get together and record a song or something and then starvation in Africa would be gone for ever.

The sad truth is that Africans will continue to starve until or unless the west releases it’s grip from around africa’s throat.

Not sure if this will come out, but this to me is a terrifying inditement of mankind and its priorities.

the ‘right’ thing to do is to keep them alive on handouts?

Yep, you’ve got it – well done

mrmo – Member

Not sure if this will come out, but this to me is a terrifying inditement of mankind and its priorities.

That’s incredible

Put it in perspective for me with pictures of starving children and then cutting to live footage of the shuttle launch / docking / landing.

I’m a huge supporter of exploration and NASA/ISS work, but it does make you wonder.

@mrmo does the Iraq war get 4 mentions there?

Also, where are Bono/U2 earnings 😉

AndrewBF – Member

I’m a huge supporter of exploration and NASA/ISS work, but it does make you wonder.

Why? We can afford both, we’re just choosing not to. In fact now we’re choosing not to afford either.

the Iraq war get 4 mentions there?

1) Iraq war predicted cost 2003 – $60billion

2) Iraq war 06 – $102billion

3) Iraq war 07 – $133billion

4) Iraq war estimated total – $3,000billion

The thing I don’t understand (and I’ve lived here for 18 months) is Ethiopia is incredibly fertile, and there is no signs of any food shortages anywhere I’ve been in the country- quite the opposite in fact. Why isn’t Ethiopia mobilising these food resources to help its own people?

From what I recall that was to do with internal politics and it was the same in the ’80s when ther was apparently enough food to go round but not the infrastructure or the political will to do so.

the ‘right’ thing to do is to keep them alive on handouts?
Yep, you’ve got it – well done

That’s not much of a long term solution though is it.

That’s not much of a long term solution though is it.

The appeal by the UN has nothing to do with a long term solution – why did you think I might be suggesting that it was a long term solution ?

From what I recall that was to do with internal politics and it was the same in the ’80s when ther was apparently enough food to go round but not the infrastructure or the political will to do so.

The cause is drought right now, and poverty more generally. When 85% of the population work on the land, then the only thing the world’s 12th poorest country has to sell to get the things it needs other than food, such as medicine, oil, electricity, etc, is its food. I assume the 15% who aren’t working on the land aren’t producing anything – they are lorry drivers, police, administrators, dockers, etc.

And poverty means that it is cheaper to use a small child to weed a field than to use pesticides, therefore no education – more poverty. In desperation they have handed farmland to foreign investors in the hope they will modernise farming. This has simply led to more fertile land being used to grow palm oil and sugar to export to wealthy countries, or the growing of biofuels – and less food for poor people.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/Famine_and_abundance_rub_shoulders_in_Ethiopia.html?cid=30732812

Whatever the causes, the solution to millions of children without food and facing death is the same – it’s to provide them with food. Explaining to them the reasons why they are going to die of hunger will not help them.

The Sahara is expanding south in response to climatic change. Any solution that does not include moving the population to an area they can farm again is not a solution.

edikator – or working to change the desertification of the land?

Planting trees makes a huge difference. there is a school of thought that deforestation is responsible for the expansion of the sahara not climate change.

Whatever the long term solutions and like many things there is no one simplistic solution Ernie is right

the solution to millions of children without food and facing death is the same – it’s to provide them with food.

Solutions are many and varies from planting trees around wells to stopping western corporations corrupting goverenments

why did you think I might be suggesting that it was a long term solution ?

It was early and I was tired.

My personal view is that tree planting and efforts to revegetate would be best carried out in areas where long-term viablility is highest. IMO that doesn’t include the newly expanded margins of the Sahara desert in Somalia. Once desert conditions prevail it is very hard to reverse the trend. It would be better to draw a line in the sand somewhere and say we’ll try to stop it here. Perhaps where the internation community can access safely.

Many people displaced by this famine simply need new lands. Like me you’ve probably seen the satelite images on TV, the geologist in me says the desert is likely to win.

Solutions are many and varies from planting trees around wells to stopping western corporations corrupting goverenments

No, none of those suggestions will help children who face death by starvation and on who’s behalf the UN has launched this latest appeal.

The only solution, whatever the causes of this famine are, is to provide immediate food and medicine to those affected. Planting trees will not help them.

They need unconditional non-judgemental assistance right now. They don’t need a lecture on what went wrong.

They need unconditional non-judgemental assistance right now. They don’t need a lecture on what went wrong.

I actually agree, they do need assistance. But to play devils advocate, what happens the next time, and the next, and the next, etc etc. The same story for the last 50 years.

The country is a complete basket case.

But to play devils advocate, what happens the next time, and the next, and the next, etc etc.

Well it’s not rocket science, any future famines should be dealt with in exactly the same way – by providing famine relief. Whenever a country or a people are facing starvation because of lack of food then the obligation of wealthy countries is to provide them with assistance.

There is zero choice in the matter as far as I’m concerned – allowing children to die of a hunger is not an option. And the sooner wealthy nations recognise their automatic non-negotiable responsibilities, then the sooner long term permanent solutions will be found.

But as long as the attitude prevails that “this is an unfortunate situation for which ultimately we have no responsibilities”, then famine will continue to be a grotesque stain on humanity. We are talking about human beings here – we have an absolute and inherent responsibility towards them. In the same way that we have a responsibility to provide assistance to someone lying bleeding in the road – walking by because it’s not our problem is not an option.

The same story for the last 50 years

Is it ? The United Nations has declared a famine in two areas of southern Somalia primarily because of the worst drought in 60 years. And yes, due to civil war in the 90s and its effect on agriculture and food distribution it did cause famine. Plus of course the lack of functioning government since 1991 has resulted in wealthy nations plundering Somalia’s rich fishing stocks :

How Somalia’s Fishermen Became Pirates

“Ever since a civil war brought down Somalia’s last functional government in 1991, the country’s 3,330 km (2,000 miles) of coastline — the longest in continental Africa — has been pillaged by foreign vessels. A United Nations report in 2006 said that, in the absence of the country’s at one time serviceable coastguard, Somali waters have become the site of an international “free for all,” with fishing fleets from around the world illegally plundering Somali stocks and freezing out the country’s own rudimentarily-equipped fishermen. According to another U.N. report, an estimated $300 million worth of seafood is stolen from the country’s coastline each year.

High-seas trawlers from countries as far flung as South Korea, Japan and Spain have operated down the Somali coast, often illegally and without licenses, for the better part of two decades, the U.N. says.

A 2005 United Nations Environmental Program report cited uranium radioactive and other hazardous deposits leading to a rash of respiratory ailments and skin diseases breaking out in villages along the Somali coast. According to the U.N., at the time of the report, it cost $2.50 per ton for a European company to dump these types of materials off the Horn of Africa, as opposed to $250 per ton to dispose of them cleanly in Europe“.

But I’m not sure this has been going on for the last 50 years.

tj

Ernie is right

Ie food now, debate and argue the rest later. Food now

Okay, enough … yawn.

If the mother nature want to cull the people no one and not even god(s) can change that.

Also don’t beat yourself up just because someone is starving to death.

There are people dying everyday so those who are fortunate are safe other perish and that is the nature of things.

Even if you want to help their Islamists govt denies famine so who are you to say they are starving.

I say nuke the place and return it to mother nature.

Those with genuine kindness will survive the rest will perish …

👿

Hopefully you’ll be next eh?

yossarian – Member

Hopefully you’ll be next eh?

We will all die one day.

The way we die might be different but the end result is the same. i.e. turn into carbon.

If you live life the way it should be then dying is a natural process which should not be feared.

But you will fight to stay alive as long as you can if you are the kind that have not lived life as it should be.

Life as it should be depends on your world view and your belief.

Cling on to it you feel pain, let it go you will be free.

🙄

I bet you’ve got a hot rock burn in your pyjama trousers. 😀