About to engage an architect for a little project. I seem to often hear about people “falling out with their architect” but don’t think the reasons are normally spelled out. What are the things that tend to sour the relationship? What do we need to avoid doing?

What do we need to avoid doing?

enagaging an architect 😉

are they project managing or just doign design? Issues often seem to arise where builder says ‘can’t do that’ architect says ‘yes you can’ and client in middle trying to mediate.

Like all things you need everyone working as a team. Might be worth decidign who you want to do the construction and get a list of Architects they’re happy to work with so you have a decent chance of it working?

For me, it was the architect not making it crystal clear what I was paying for from the very start. I thought I was getting the full service including project management for £x, when in fact all I got was some nice-looking floor plans and 3D drawings, not even the technical drawings needed for the builders. That plus the project management was going to cost a lot more but not told of this until he’d done me the pretty pictures! Thankfully my builder was more flexible and he knew people in the council’s planning department who did all the technical calculations for him/me gratis!

Same as any other relationship, you have to work at it.
Be clear about your expectations, both from a design and contractual basis from the start. Make notes along the way and follow up conversations with emails documenting what was agreed.
Spending a lot of money on the roof over your head is always going to be stressful, so prepare yourself and take lots of deep breaths as required.
Oh and don’t be tempted to employ a friend – you stand to lose more than the cost of the work if and when it goes pear shaped.

Might be worth decidign who you want to do the construction and get a list of Architects they’re happy to work with so you have a decent chance of it working?

Likely doing it the other way round. We’ve pretty much decided who we’re using and it looks like they have trusted builders who we’ll likely use. Will project manage ourselves.

Main thing I would say is to make sure they giving you what you want. Some will seem to listen to you, then present you with something the complete opposite of what you asked for!
I wanted some plans drawn for turning my 70’s bungalow into a house, as I can’t change the shape of it, all I could do was take the roof off and build up. When I got the quote from one outfit, they wanted 4 grand for a site survey and another 4 grand for 3d drawings. All I wanted was the plans to give to a builder and had explained this to them. A month later after I hadn’t been back in touch, they sent a new quote for what I’d originally asked for! Cheeky twunts. 🙄
Try and go with personal recommendations, I was put in touch with a bloke who didn’t even charge for coming out to see what I wanted done. He listened to my ideas and came up with suggestions where things could be improved/changed. Ended up a third of the price of the first lot!
Things can get complicated if they’re project managing and you’re getting something out of the ordinary. If what you’re wanting has been done a 1000 times before, things should go more smoothly.

There’s a few architects of this parish, hopefully they’ll be along at some point to give their perspectives!

A lot of what’s been said above applies and it certainly helps if you find one who you can relate to and get honest two-way communication.

The only thing I’d add, and this very much depends on what your ‘little project‘ is, is to find one who specifies real world products and not some obscure specification off t’interweb which is only available on the other side of the world. In other words, one who actually knows what is available and how it fits together!

I am an architect and I do a lot of small jobs like this.

We’ve found the best thing to have a very clear and specific appointment document, that way the client is aware from the word go about what they’ll get. We can also recommend forms of appointment for builders to make sure the relationship between all parties is clearly defined. Managing a client’s expectations is a difficult part of the job as many people have little of no experience of the industry and need guidance through each and every step. It may seem expensive, but you very often get what you pay for.

Yes, people fall out and disagreements arise, that’s why it is also important that any appointment document lays out a framework for dealing with these situations. RIBA have a lot of guidance on their website (so they’re good for something). Alternatively drop me a PM and I’ll do my best to help you out.

A good architect can help guide you through the whole process from start to finish and will deliver the project you want. A good builder is key to this process. Find both and you’re laughing.

tell them your max budget is 3/4 of your available budget.

if you are lucky you might get something you can afford.

Most conflicts arise from not understanding what is being provided. This isn’t unique to the Construction industry (either Professional or Trade).

The next most common cause of conflict is Client’s not putting any effort in and expecting 100’s of alternative ideas/options for them to consider. An Architect (or any designer) needs guidance as to what you want from the end result. The bottom line is that you’ll only be fully happy with the result if you put the effort in.

Any Professional (again not restricted to the Construction industry) should provide you with a fee proposal detailing what they will and won’t do and for how much.

The only other thing to remember is that you are paying for a Professional’s time so if you want to be constantly talking to them or them to only work on your project from inception to completion then expect a five figure account.

The biggest problem with builders/contractors is getting them to read and understand what you want. They tend to just build (and price for) what they know regardless of what you want. On a time and money prioritised project, I’ve recently had a builder talk a client out of using [cheaper and faster] SIPs because ‘he doesn’t know about them’. Cost the client a few thousand more in build cost and re-submission work.

Be clear and honest with yourselves from the start about what you are engaging the architect to do. As the client, you set the brief that they will work to. And what your extra responsibilities are if you decide to project manage it yourself.
If you employ a good builder, they could easily manage and build a small project and procure the necessary architectural services.
Likewise, the architect could project manage a job and contract a suitable builder.
As the client, your ideal position contractually is above a “lead contractor” (either builder or architect) who is responsible for producing the project for you, including the other contractor’s work. The clients’ only real concern there is the relationship and payment to one party.
However, if you also take on the PM role you would be putting yourself in a contractual position between the two, effectively taking on the responsibility and risk of resolving any queries, disputes or disagreements between them. Also, you’d be removing the contractual link between the two (of one employing the other) and replacing it with two separate links to yourself (as pm) so they don’t have quite the same incentive to work together.
There’s every chance it could still all work out great, especially if its a simple job done before, but if there is a problem (for example the materials available to the builder are not the same as the architects design, or manufacturers installation details clash) its then you responsibility to make it work.
If you’re an inexperienced client and unsure of those responsibilities, ie to set the design brief, then its a big jump to take on the project management too.

Edit:as an example of what I was saying, mk1fan’s example of extra cost above could have been avoided if the builders query had gone through the architect as Project manager, rather than straight to the client/pm who didn’t have the experience to say no.

Architects are self-righteous pricks. I should know, I nearly became one 8)

Oh, so you’re only ‘nearly’ a self-righteous prick (unlike the rest of us on STW) 😉

FWIW, we are just about to sell our souls finalise for a plot of land to build our niche-tastic wood frame house. We found the builder who we already knew through friends and have been admiring his work from afar for a while now who, in turn, referred us to the architect for the design. They seem to send a lot of jobs in each others direction, but bicker like an old couple. It’s really quite entertaining to be honest 😀

We’ve just started our ‘little project’. I looked for a local one-man firm (who’d worked/lived locally), and pure luck found someone who my folks knew.

Tell him what you want, and then listen.

We knew the shape/size/look of what we wanted to do (conversion of existing building), but didn’t technically know what we had to do nor what Planning would require.

His fee’s are a little dearer than I’d budgetted for, but already he’s saved us money by the way he’s applied for planning and the form of words used means they agreed the initial submission. He’s also pointed me in the right direction with insulation and standards.

As others have said, expectations on all sides need addressing – no different to any other relationship.

Mine ballsed up the contract paperwork, lost control of the build cost, did nothing about the over run and lied to both me and the builder.

Apart from that he was ace.

Our most recent one was mostly good – crystal clear about costs, had some good ideas which definitely improved the build, but was awful at getting on with the job, probably delayed the build by a couple of months because he required constant chasing to get on with drawing up the plans so we could submit them for planning and then building control.

The one before was a bit of a hobbyist. Drew up lots of stuff with features that added costs with no real benefit.

My mother had one who couldn’t even measure accurately, and came up with something which wouldn’t actually fit onto the house.

So, a mixed bag – recommendations are the best way to go.

OCRider – sounds interesting. Anything to show? Location?

My perspective as a ‘self righteous prick’ 🙂 is provide your architect with a clear brief, be realistic regarding the expected outcome, acknowledge the constraints, be honest about the budget, be consistent in your requirements and agree the scope of service, deliverables, fee and payment schedule up front. Being enthusiastic and engaged in the process helps too.

Perhaps the single most important thing is to ascertain where you see the value in the project, and share this, remembering the adage that everything comes at the cost of something else. This mismatch of expectation often leads to projects not running smoothly, whatever the scale.

And remember architects are not structural engineers so will rarely qualify foundation design, steel loadings etc etc.

Some important things to consider:
Changing your mind a lot will cost you money
You need to trust the architect and builder to fiddle around with the 3rd most important thing in your life (after herself and the bikes)
You need to be able to continue to talk to your architect and builder as they fiddle around with the 3rd most important…. Etc
Make sure that the brief is well understood on both sides
Make sure that the budget is well understood on both sides
Make sure that the programme is well understood……

^^^^ be realistic with the programme ^^^^

Oh, so you’re only ‘nearly’ a self-righteous prick (unlike the rest of us on STW)

Haha, yeah, narrowly dodged that bullet 😆

I think I generalised a little earlier, apologies are due. My experience of architects is purely from the same side of the fence. I have several good friends who are now architects and they’re hardly ever self righteous AND a prick at the same time 🙂

OCRider – sounds interesting. Anything to show? Location?

We’re waiting on the planning permission to come through, though it’ll drag on because its the summer hols and we’re in France 🙄 so you can make do with a picture for the meantime and Monsieur le Maire can chill with his mates and a glass or two of Ricard.

I’ll probably have a go at running a blog once work begins and start procrastinating the updates shortly afterwards 😀

The site is on a gentleish slope running from front to back, the lower side is due north (all the big windows on the south side, as you would) Lower ground floor is concrete box, upwards from there is dead trees.

Looks great. Good luck with it.

Employ the feckers on an all-changes lump-sum, then tell them exactly what you want them to do.

AS said make sure both sides realise the brief and make sure that both parties are aware of what are expected other. Remember it’s your project and not theirs. If you want something then in 90% of the cases stick to your guns, The other 10% is sometimes governed by regulations etc. In terms of what you get for your money ask potential architects to show examples of work that they have previously done rather than just provide a quote. Biggest issue I have is that clients sometimes want a full 3D fly around which is all singing all dancing when we may have only allowed for a sketch-up type massing model. ASK LOTS OF QUESTIONS AND TAKE MINUTES

Double check everything they do and make sure the drawings are to spec.

I may have been unlucky but every interaction I have had with architects has been poor.

1) – the architect for the work in my flat. Gave us a spec to build to that did not meet regs ( no vapour membrane), took 3 goes to draw everything in the right place despite being given a detailed drawing by me

Other similar examples as well – so not only follow the advice above but check and question all the drawings and research building regs to make sure they get it right.

sorry to the architects on here but in several instances in several projects serious mistakes have been made by the architects

TJ – it does happen unfortunately, just like cowboy builders, plumbers etc and it’s those people that give us all a bad image.

mistakes happen. its unavoidable. no one is perfect.

its how they are dealt with that matters.

i’m a builder, and have worked for myself and for large firms. i have had to change things on numerous occasions because the architect has ballsed it up, omitted stuff, put stuff in the wrong place, the best bit is when you’ve paid £1000’s for plans and there’s a little note at the bottom that says “not to scale”! nowadays i use a local freelance structural engineer, who will submit plans to the planners for a small fee. my advise is get a good builder first, at the end of the day its the builder who will be dealing with the building inspector on site, they are the ones you’ve really got to appease

The reason the drawings say “Not to Scale”, or more normally “Do not scale from drawing”, is just as a disclaimer to ensure that the written dimensions in the annotations/specification are the ones that are used.

If it is just a small project like an extension, it is likely to fall within permitted development, and if you just want it to match the existing house and have a good idea of what you want in terms of design/layout, rather than wanting something innovative, then finding a good local builder is probably just as good as finding an architect. They will probably know someone who can knock out some quick drawings, and the builder will have a more detailled knowledge of traditional construction methods than most architects. It does mean though that you have to be very careful with specification to ensure you get good quality and a decent finish, also be very stringent with snagging because generally the UK construction industry mentality is to do the minimum.

Generally an architect’s expertise comes in more useful for larger projects, or where you arent 100% sure what is wanted, or for projects with more stringent planning requirements: new builds, conservation areas, listed buildings etc.

thanks all. a few good pointers.

i have had to change things on numerous occasions because the architect has ballsed it up

now now… I’ve worked on schemes where the builder has ballsed up too for not looking at drawings properly either. I’ve just had one thing where the builder knew best and it was against structural engineers dwgs, mine and building regulations.

All consultants, contractors, subcontractors should be vetted. No one is perfect.

I tend to do private work and have a favourite builder who I suggest to clients. Always bounce ideas off him. Would like to say we work well together but still slag each other off as that’s what builders v architects are meant to do!!!