Agreed. Winning with dodgy steering at Spa would be virtually impossible.
You can only drive the circuit you’re on as it were.

But Ferrari not Vettel designed and built the steering, so one can’t blame him, and as for Ferrari, the result shows that on that track on that day, they got it right.

New Indy car road body looks the bees!

Why doesn’t the front wing have 92,000 elements??

Less is more.

New f1s look like cheese graters on steroids…

McLaren Honda are finally showing some progression this season

Is Kubica testing today?

Yes, bye, bye Palmer you won’t be missed.

McLaren Honda put on a good show at Hungary because the track played to the strengths of the car. The third iteration of this year’s Honda engine introduced in early July has only just matched the power output of the 2016 Honda unit. We did get a glimpse of just how tidy that McLaren chassis actually is and how those trick aerodynamics help on a tight, twisty circuit.

Honda realistically have a matter of weeks to demonstrate that it can field a reliable, competitive engine for 2018, which is a monumental undertaking. I doubt very much that whatever the Honda boffins are working on will be enough to convince McLaren and Alonso to stick with the project.

McLaren will dump Honda – Torro Rosso will take them on, work through the shite times and then Red Bull will end up with a full works deal and an awesome engine in 2 years time!

McLaren should stick with them.

I’d stick with Honda rather than change to please Alonso.

Kooobitzer test updates:

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/testresults/1819/formula-1-test-at-hungaroring-2-august-2017/

Still think that Indy car has been designed to look fast rather than be fast.

From sky sports….

14:10
Kubica is back on track as he nears a century of laps.

And on his previous long-run, he was certainly a model of consistency.

1:21.208

1:21.436

1:21.356

1:21.344

1:21.575

1:21.180

1:21.548

1:21.053

1:21.654

1:21.521

1:21.382

1:21.383

Those times are firmly in the region or faster than the Hungarian GP fastest laps set by Jolyon Palmer (1:21.589) and Nico Hulkenberg (1:21.611)

Bye bye Palmer.

thepurist – Member
Still think that Indy car has been designed to look fast rather than be fast.

It definitely is, it was deliberate. It’ll still be doing Indy at 230mph+ though

Just been reading up about Kubica, maybe I wasn’t paying attention when he last raced but I didn’t realise how good he was tipped to be.

You’d be daft as a team boss not to take him on once he’s fit – great story behind him, possible huge talent still waiting to see it at it’s best and if he’s managed to get through what he’s been through I can his determination and work ethic to win will be hard to match.

If I was Mclaren I’d be signing him up ASAP – replace Alonso – maybe the coming of age of the Mclaren Honda relationship linked with the talent of Kubica could be an amazing alignment of the planets…??

Good luck to him, nice to see him back.

A man who really knows how to crash!

I’m absolutely delighted to see how well Kubica coped with the return to driving an F1 car. He’s too talented not to be on the grid, hopefully before the year is out.

So, the rumour mill is currently putting out whispers that McLaren’s remaining engine options for 2018 are between Honda and Renault. Could we see Alonso back at Renault, with Kubica in a McLaren?

I don’t think Renault have the money for Alonso ( who also wants to be winning – not sure Renault are there yet )

And

I don’t think Renault would go to this trouble for Kubica and give him away to another team.
I think they have unfinished business together, as well as the PR good will and comparative cheapness of salary.

The Honda story is interesting, as it looks like they may find themselves without a customer just as they are making progress!

What happened to McLaren returning to Mercedes? That seems to have gone quiet…

Logical thing is to give Kubica the remainder of the season in the Renault to see if he’s properly up to it.

As on and on says – Renault can’t afford (or won’t pay) Alonso’s salary. And Renault’s reliability has been as bad as Hondas.

IMO if Honda don’t make significant progress over the rest of the season Alonso will go to Indycar for a year and then see what opens up in 2019.

What happened to McLaren returning to Mercedes? That seems to have gone quiet…

There was a suggestion on here that it wasn’t going to happen, but I’m not sure of the basis for that, I’ve not seen anything ruling it out. The most recent report I can find simply says that merc will only discuss a deal after there is a formal split with Honda.

Renault’s reliability has been as bad as Hondas.

The performance is there – when in a good chassis. The chances are a Renault powered macca would be faster than a Renault, so I can’t see any reason why Alonso would want to make the switch.

The 2017 Honda engine is less powerful than last year’s and laughably unreliable. It’s unlikely that the 2018 will even be equal to Renault, let alone Ferrari and Merc. The Renault chassis is still a long way behind Red Bull and McLaren. It’s unlikely that the chassis will improve enough to beat Red Bull with the same engine. Alonso’s only realistic option for a competitive car next year is a McLaren with a Renault or Merc engine.

hols2 – Member
The 2017 Honda engine is less powerful than last year’s and laughably unreliable

That’s not surprising because they effectively started over, and last years engine had 2 years development already.

They seem to be making good progress now though. Spec 2.5/3 had no reliability concerns at the last race, and they have a new MGUH and turbo for spec 4 at Spa which they think is bringing 15/40 HP extra depending on your source.

They’re still 60 hp or so behind Merc.

At the start of this year, I was prepared to give Honda the benefit of the doubt because they seemed to make a big step forward at the end of last year. Their reliability problems this year stemmed from unexpected vibrations. Even assuming that they’ve solved those now (and finishing one race without breaking down is a pretty low bar), it means they’ve spent 6 months fixing things that should have been sorted out after the first pre-season test. That doesn’t speak well of Honda’s management. I’m no longer prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt. My opinion doesn’t count for anything, obviously, but Alonso and McLaren seem to feel the same way, which does count. I don’t think anybody seriously thinks Honda will be able to produce an engine that matches Renault next year, let alone Merc.

Yes agreed, aside from the token system their approach seems to have been the main problem (viewed from the outside, anyway).

Should have been sorted on the dyno before the first test. Presumably there is no limitation on dyno testing – it seems one of their biggest issues is their failure to create a realistic simulation on their dyno. In car testing shouldn’t be for sorting out basic problems like that.

As far as I understand it the main criticism of Honda’s approach has been their refusal to accept outside help, which has been reported to have changed and they are now accepting help from Mercedes, which may also explain their current progress

has been reported to have changed

A year ago they were telling us they understood the problem and that this year’s engine would be a huge step forward. They have no credibility left. I’ll believe they’ve improved when I see results on the track. Alonso and McLaren feel the same way as far as I can tell.

I’ll believe they’ve improved when I see results on the track. Alonso and McLaren feel the same way as far as I can tell.

Double points finish and no issues in Hungary?

Double points finish and no issues in Hungary?

On a track where engine performance matters much less than nearly everywhere else, they had the 4th fastest car, with a big gap to the front runners. They managed to get two cars to the finish line for one race. That’s not the level of performance that Alonso and McLaren expect.

What happened to McLaren returning to Mercedes? That seems to have gone quiet…

Because its not going to happen.

Alonso’s only realistic option for a competitive car next year is a McLaren with a Renault or Merc engine.

Which isn’t going to happen. Mclaren have a contract with Honda until 2021, Honda are pouring into Mclaren tens of millions of pounds, and they are also paying Alonsos wages.

Alonso has two choices: stay with Mclaren, or retire, because he’s not going back to ferrari, Renault can’t afford him, and why would Mercedes want him?

On a track where engine performance matters much less than nearly everywhere else, they had the 4th fastest car, with a big gap to the front runners. They managed to get two cars to the finish line for one race. That’s not the level of performance that Alonso and McLaren expect.

Nope – but it’s a massive improvement from not even completing the warm-up lap to the grid!

4 races ago – few people would have put them ahead of Force India and front of the mid-field.

4 races ago – few people would have put them ahead of Force India and front of the mid-field.

They were always expected to be much more competitive at Monaco and Hungary, where engine power is less important. At Silverstone, Force India were much faster because the Honda engine is so weak. See what happens at Spa.

Sonor – Member
Honda are pouring into Mclaren tens of millions of pounds, and they are also paying Alonsos wages.

McLaren have already stated that the Honda money no longer offsets the losses in prize money and sponsorship. I’m sure McLaren will have their cancellation clauses in place, and given how shit Honda have been I don’t believe they’d embarass themselves further and try and insist on staying

From a chassis/aero POV the perceived wisdom is that the Macca is right up there with the Merc, Ferrari and RB, so it’s no surprise at them doing well where the engine is less important (when the engine doesn’t blow up).

You usually get some upsets at Hungary, remember when Damon Hill led the race in an Arrows until a rubber seal gave way?

It’s a track that flatters an underpowered car with a short wheelbase and a sound chassis.

Spa is much more demanding on the engine and teams run less aero to maximise speed, the Honda engine will likely be fighting for second to last with Sauber, who are running a 2016 spec Ferrari engine.

Don’t know how I feel about this:

JAonF1 sold…

While it’s great for James to get rewarded for the time, energy and passion he’s put into his site it feels like it’s going t be swallowed up by the corporation and lose it’s USP. His articles have always been my go-to for unbiased info and analysis, hopefully that won’t change!

Yep. The Judge disappeared up its own tailpipe a few months ago as well.

In this case, less is definitely less 🙁

Motorsport.com is becoming a bit of a monster – once they’ve got all the main websites under their control I bet the pay wall will follow swiftly.

I am also worried about JA disappearing behind a paywall, I check that site almost daily and I love the Tuesday analysis pieces

These look absolutely stunning- guy photographs modern F1 with a 104 year old camera

http://www.intoourworld.com/photographer-shoots-formula-1-with-104-year-old-camera-and-heres-the-results/amp/