Ok so we are vaguely looking at getting a caravan but can someone give me a a quick guide to car and caravan weight limits.

Which figures do I use to determine how heavy a caravan I can tow?

Thanks

What’s the maximum braked trailer weight your vehicle can tow?
That will be your answer.

I looked into this a while ago and there is a lot of conflicting information but what iolo said is correct. Whatever is on your VIN plate. The caravan’s MTPLM (max laden weight) as specified on its plate must not exceed your braked trailer weight.

Caravan Club recommends that a laden caravan is around 85% of your cars kerbweight for safety. Others will tell you that it’s safe to tow 100% of you cars kerb weight. Personally unless you’ve got a huge proper 4×4 then I’d stick to the 85% rule. You’ll find that a few cars on the market will have a maximum towing weight that is lower than 85% the cars kerb weight. Do not exceed the cars maximum towing weight as listed in the handbook, if you do, your insurance is invalid.

If you passed your test after 1997 then there are other considerations too. What car do you have?

Legally you can tow up to the maximum braked towing weight for the car. However, general guidelines are that you should only tow up to 85% of the kerbweight of the car.

For example, the manual version of my car has a braked towing limit of 2500kg, but the kerbweight is 1915kg. It can legally tow 2500kg, but general advice is to keep to below about 1630kg (which is still a substantial caravan). If you’re an experienced tower, then you can go higher, but it’s unwise to exceed the kerbweight of the car.

Helpful site

Edit:
As above – good point on the post-1997 test

Renault seem to quote towing wrights with just a driver in and fat lower ones for a load car with passengers so be careful of you have one.

Having said that I towed a 1300kg caravan with a megane grand scenic for 5 years and it was fine.

Look out for nose weights on some car/caravan combos too.

Berlingo xtr 1.6 hdi 115.

I’ve got
mass in service 1624
Max laden weight 2065
Max braked trailer weight 1300
max nose weight 70

What’s the maximum braked trailer weight your vehicle can tow?
That will be your answer.

Actually not.

The police will take into account the kerbweight of the car vs the MTPLM of the caravan if they suspect you of being overloaded.

MTPLM of the van is the maximum gross weight allowed, which isn’t much over the empty weight usually – about 150-200kg. The 85% rule is good guidance, except that it is accepted that you can go to 100% with a modern van and car with all the aids.

If you passed your car test after 1997 then the total weight of both your car and your van cannot exceed 3500kg. Which is enough for a decent sized car and caravan, despite what some people say. If you have a 4×4 or MPV and want to tow a double-axled van though you will probably exceed that.

However on some cars (often petrols, like my dad’s Focus) the maximum towing weight in the manual is LESS than 85% of the kerb weight. So you cannot exceed that. The figure in the manual is measured at the most weight you can pull away with up a 10% slope or something like that – so it’s to do with the weight distribution and even engine torque. However stabilty whne driving around is dicated by the weight of the car vs the weight of the van.

What car do you have?

EDIT just seen your post.

If 1300kg is your max weight then that trumps the 85/100% kerbweight rule. That is plenty enough for an old van or one of the lighter weight models of new van. Bailey Pursuit for instance are around 1250kg ish iirc. However 70kg noseweight isn’t THAT much nowadays for a caravan.

In practice, youwill be able to improve handling by putting lots of weight in your berlingo since it’s a van.

MIRO = Mass in running order. (Empty caravan).
MTPLM = Max technically permissible laden mass. (Full caravan).
Kerb Weight = Empty car.
Nose-weight = Weight the caravan will put on the cars tow ball.

Caravan Club recommendation is that the MTPLM does not exceed 85% of the cars kerb weight. This ensures its on the safe side, & that’s a good start, but not the law. That 85% has to be within the braked towing capacity for the car though. Some cars have a much lower “braked towing capacity” or “braked trailer weight”.
WhatTowCar is a good start for comparing “outfits” as they call them.

But there are a few other important considerations…

Nose-weight should be about 7% of the caravans MTPLM, or the max for the car, whichever is the least. Most cars are between 50 – 75kg. 4×4’s can be a lot higher. A lot of older folk have various reasons why the nose-weight should be this & that. I can only go on my experience, & getting it as above has always seen me right. The one time it did feel odd to tow I had it too light. I carry an old set of scales now, to drop the jockey wheel on.
Loading, low & heavy items over the axle, slightly biased front or rear to get the nose-weight in range.
Tyre pressures, should be increased to that for a fully loaded car.
Stabilisers, wont necessarily stop a badly loaded & unstable outfit from going wrong, & some say it can mask any problems until too late. I always set off with the stabiliser not engaged, just to check it feels ok, then stop & engage it. Very old type is a big steel blade, that has friction plates to damp turning movement, & the blade is tensioned and the car to stop it pitching up & down. Newer type is friction pads built in to the caravans towing eye. Also an electronic system becoming common now, that sequentially applies the brakes if it detects a problem.

Our caravan is 1500kg MTPLM. Towed with a Galaxy (1850kg). Used to tow it with a Mondeo, at about 95%. Still within the cars max braked trailer weight, & under normal circumstances towed great, but there’s not much margin for error should things go wrong. The Galaxy tows it a lot better, very stable.

Thanks for the replies.

So basically caravan MTPLM must be less than the lowest figure of either max towing weight or 85% (ideally) of kerbweight? And MTPLM plus kerbweight of car can’t exceed 3500kg

Another question as well, for a novice tower what sort of total car + caravan length would you go for? Some of the vans look pretty long to me! Need a 4 berth van, 2 adults, 2 young kids.

Berlingo is 4.38m according to brochure specs

Modern vans are longer than older ones used to be. Length.. well.. I dunno how much difference it makes. You’re still dealing with a really long outfit, so a couple of feet doesn’t make much difference 🙂

As said I’d go for one of the entry level vans in the manufacturers ranges. They tend to be both smaller and lighter, and also cheaper.

Choosing a layout is a bit of a chore tbh. There are many available to you. Many vans are fixed bed, but I can’t see that this works very well unless you put the kids to bed in the nice big comfy real bed and you then sleep on the foldaway one 🙂

Vans these days tend to come in ‘classes’ although it’s not official labelled that way. Most entry level ones are around 1200 ish, most mid range ones are about 1450-1500 and the big double axle or luxury ones are 1600-1700.

I may be wrong, but I thought that kerb weight was for a car including fluids/fuel and a driver?

As molgrips has said, post 97 licence, 3500kg limit for mtplm of car plus caravan so even if you got it onto a weighbridge under 3500kg, if the mtplm is over 3500 then it’s illegal. It’s also illegal for the trailer/caravan to weigh more than your car on a post 97 license I believe.

70kg isn’t very much as a noseweight limit nowadays. I think my Dads Santa Fe is either 120 or 150 kgs!

Yeah 70kg isn’t much. Some vans go over this if you have two gas bottles, or you have the optional chest of drawers in the front dinette. Even in our old one it’s hard to get down to 85kg if we have two gas bottles – it helps if you have some storage in the rear so you can use it to balance the van.

lakesrider – Member

Thanks for the replies.

So basically caravan MTPLM must be less than the lowest figure of either max towing weight or 85% (ideally) of kerbweight? And MTPLM plus kerbweight of car can’t exceed 3500kg

I looked into this extensively last year, do not go with the 85%. You have to go with the plated values (this is what the police will use if you are pulled over).

So, the MTPLM cannot exceed the max braked trailer weight. Some people suggest that the gross train weight can be played with to achieve a greater towing weight (for example, gross train weight 3000kg, max braked trailer 1000kg on vin plate. They would say would allow you to tow 1500kg as long as the car and load does not exceed 1500kg – this is not true).

I was gutted to find that the maximum I can tow with my diesel mondeo estate is 800kg. Incredible for a car of its weight (2255kg). The reason is because of the gearing it has (econitec engine). I am sure it could tow more but the vin plate limits it to 800kg.

I tow my caravan with my partner tipee 115hp, same car as the op!

Its not the best, but it works, and keeping the weight in the car / over the van wheels helps. Mpg goes down to about 20ish..

Van weighs 1200kg. 😳

I just take it nice and steady.

Theres a calculator, here.

http://www.whattowcar.com

I can get 33mpg ish from my Passat 2.0 TDI with the ‘van on, but only on motorways – drops down to 28 ish on country roads. It was 26-28 in the old van though, which was same size and weight.

Molgrips, careful with that advice, you should not load the caravan to the rear of the axle to balance a heavy nose, it’ll just act like a pendulum. You’d probably need 50kg right at the back to take 25kg off the noseweight. Better to empty the front of the van into a couple of boxes and put them in the middle of the caravan along with the seat cushions.

Layout wise, if you’ve young uns the double dinette takes some beating. Difficult to find now though, as they think everyone wants half the caravan taken up with a fixed bed. Ours has a screen that basically turns the rear of the van in to a kids bedroom. Ideal for putting them to bed. We left the kids bunks up when we drove across France last summer. Was great for stopping off, kids straight from car to bed.
Basically that whole area below turns in to 3 beds.

IMAG1291 by pten2106, on Flickr

Not much to add to the sage advice above, work out the weights of what you put in the van too. I did this on a spreadsheet, sad I know, but wanted to be sure I was legal as it’s easy to pile alsorts in there and be illegal if you’re pulled by the police or VOSA. We’ve been lucky as both our tow cars have been heavy powerful beasts.

This is a useful site for comparing different layouts of caravans,

http://www.caravanfinder.co.uk/caravan_layouts.html?berth=4

So another question!

I checked the VIN sticker in the car today and the V5.

V5 is fairly obvious and matches the car brochure:
max permissable mass 2065
mass in service 1624
max towable mass 1300

But the Vin plate has 4 weights on with no explanation. They are, in order:
2065kg
3065kg
(1) – 1170kg
(2) – 970kg

Theres no explanation of these weights in the manual so anyone know what they mean

Anyone know? I’m guessing the highest must be the Gross Train Weight?

Molgrips, careful with that advice, you should not load the caravan to the rear of the axle to balance a heavy nose, it’ll just act like a pendulum

Yes, I was wary of that at first, and I obviously put the really heavy things in the middle. However in my van some light things at the back really help to get the nose weight right and the results are very stable indeed. I’m only talking about 5kg here and there of course.

RE the VIN plate – it’s all here

http://www.towbarexpress.co.uk/towing-weight.html

Fair enough Molgrips, thought you might be sticking loads back there 🙂

Lakesrider –

First line is gross weight of the car, second line is the train weight. Next two lines are the axle weights.

Its a contested issue but the safe method of determining the towing limit is to deduct the gross weight from the train weight, which gives 1000kg, but your handbook says 1300kg. But we know handbooks can be inaccurate.

Others say you deduct the actual current weight of the car (i.e not necessarily the full gross weight) from the train weight, which would give you a higher figure.

The law is rather unclear.

The law is rather unclear.

It’s pretty clear. You must not exceed any of the maximum weights specified.

It is not uncommon for the GTW to be less than the gross weight of the car plus the max towable weight. Which means means you can not tow the max weight and max out the cars weight out at the same time.

In the above case both below example combinations would be legal (IMHO and IAMAL)

Car=1800kg(<gross weight) plus caravan=1250kg (<max towable weight) gives total=3050kg (<GTW)

Car=2050kg(<gross weight) plus caravan=1000kg (<max towable weight) gives total=3050kg (<GTW)

And both well withing the 85% thing, which is a recommendation rather than law.

The AA’s advice on the matter….

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/general-advice/towing-advice-what-you-need-to-know.html

You mustn’t overload the car or caravan

The weight of the loaded caravan/trailer must be within the car’s towing ability

The combined weight of the loaded car and loaded caravan/trailer must be below the maximum ‘train’ weight for the car

hmmm i’m getting confused again now 😕

caravan club say “

Legally, if you add together the Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) of your car and the MTPLM of your caravan, the total weight must not exceed the GTW of the car.”

Which is what mark90 said above.

But for my car GTW (3065) – MAM car (2065) = 1000kg left to cover the MTPLM of caravan.

Now theres only couple of small lightweight 4 berths i’ve seen (Elddis Xplore 340 – MIRO 908kg, MTPLM 1069, and Adria Sportline DS – MIRO 920, MTPLM 1100)

But as the MTPLM is over 1000 for both of these, i’d not be able to tow them.

Haven’t seen any lighter 4 berths.

Is my understanding of the limits correct?

As an aside, can anyone explain why some people have multiple BSOs on a V-shaped bike rack as well as a caravan on the tow ball and are not concerned that at night it’s lighting up the rest of the moon.

Maybe I didnt put that very clearly. What I said was you can tow a caravan with a MTPMLM of 1300kg as long as the actual weight of the caravan does not exceed 1300kg (obviously), the actual weight of the car does not exceed 2065kg and the combined actual weight of the car and caravan does not exceed 3065kg. Based on the figures you supplied. Although not everyone agrees on that point of view.

The way I read it…… the train weight does not specify the required split between car and caravan/trailer, only the total the must not be exceeded. Of course you must also not exceed any individual weights, cars MAM, cars max permissible towing weight, or the caravan/trailers MTPLM. If everything is under the max specified weight all good.

Sometimes a cars MAM plus max allowed towing weight equals GTW. Sometimes it doesn’t, as in your case, and the case of my T5.

It’s not that dissimilar to the fact that combined axle weights generally don’t add up to the MAM.

Too late to edit.

Although when looking at the mass in service figure of 1624kg in reality you might struggle to get the car and a 1300kg caravan in under 3065kg unless car is pretty empty.

mark90 – thanks that made it clearer now. Yeah 1300 will be too much so will look at some smaller ones.

sorry another question in the quest for the ideal weight caravan!

Can anyone give me a rough idea of the extra payload weight a family of 4 would be carrying on holiday?

I’ve no idea of this so am guessing maybe 400kg (but thats including the weights of the rest of family as well, dont need to include mine as thats already added into the cars ‘mass in service’?) We’d probably not bother with a leisure battery and only take one gas cylinder.

2 adults, 1 toddler, 1 baby.

well, if you look at what you’d take on a flying holiday – say 15-30kg of luggage per person plus push chairs/nappies/changign bags/electronics/books/etc etc then you need to think about;

bedding
food
pots and pans
crockery
water container/waste container
microwave (if ‘van doesn’t have one built in – those cheap ones from tesco are great for heating bottles and kids food and aren;t big)
awning and poles if you get one – we did so we coudl sit out when the kids went to sleep.
toys
beach stuff
tv?
bikes
small cot/moses basket

it can end up a fair amount. I used to try and load as much as possible of our personal stuff (clothes and bedding) in the car and just have stuff that lived in the caravan in there.

The bottom line is that a 1.6 diesel with all your families gear on board towing a typical 4 berth caravan is going to find it hard going no matter how you juggle the weights around.
Have you thought about the folding type like a Pennine ? Bottom half is basically a caravan with the top in canvas.Can be pretty expensive second hand though.Or how about a 2 berth caravan with the wife and kids in the ‘van at night and you in a sleeping pod in the awning.

Probably not bother with a leisure battery? I think its included in the kerb weight of most vans and I think you’d struggle without it, the hookup will charge the battery and the battery will run all the 12v stuff like ceiling lights, water pump, the water heater if its not a pure 230v one (I.e option to run on gas) and cooker ignition.

The bottom line is that a 1.6 diesel with all your families gear on board towing a typical 4 berth caravan is going to find it hard going

I can speak from experience, as I have a Partner 1.6hdi 115hp and a 1200kg caravan, that even loaded with far to much stuff (including a 100kg marquee, and several bikes, stuff for 5 days at 24/12 and 4 people of adult size, and a 40kg dog) it still trundles along ok, with a bit of gear changing needed for the hills!

This ‘may’ not be totally legal mind…. 😳

I had a Iveco camper van with 116bhp. That was rated to tow 2800kg, GTW=6300kg. I didn’t have it at full GTW but the converted van weighed 2700kg empty and with tools/spares on board for a race weekend would be knocking 3000kg and it would regularly happliy pull 1500-2000kg trailers at the legal limit. It was quite a torquey engine and the gearing was lowish so that would obviously play a part too.

Same van as mark90 but nearer to 3200kg converted, and horsebox varies between 2000 and 2800kg.

At 6000kg its like driving a ship, mpg drops to about 18mpg and it’ll max out at 60mph on the flat in 4th (though I rarely go above 55mph). Not surprising when its only got 20bhp per ton 🙂

If it had double rear wheels the train weight increases to 7000kg 😯

I’ve no idea of this so am guessing maybe 400kg

As above, a big suitcase is about 20kg stuffed with clothes etc, so you can take about 6-8 of those worth. Basically, your clothes for a week, bit of food, and bedding goes in the van. Take plastic crockery, get cheap alu pans as they are light and so on.

Awnings are heavy but put them in the car. Or tbh you’d probably be ok in the van.