I had a friend who believed they might be moderately bi-polar but chose not to be evaluated for this, so I have no idea if they are correct in thier self diagnosis. They say they go through periodic highs and lows over spans of years. They have 'self medicated' in the past with purchased drugs and I think fear possible diagnosis as they dont want to loose the 'highs' if they are given medical assistance.

I met them when they were very low/depressed and we became close friends via email and occasionally meeting up, which continued over 5 years or so as they 'came up' and hit a normal range of moods for a long period.

However recently they have changed a great deal and define themselves as very happy and socially very active (which is of course good) but they have also become very cold, somewhat boastful/egotistical, ruthless and seem to have some very set ideas about our past friendship which I find a bit bewildering and not accurate from my own perspective.

They have become convinced I wanted to date them and still want to and that I had been trying to achieve dating them for years. They see it as important to avoid me becasue of this. The more I explain they were mistaken, the more they claim I am basically lying. We were close friends and that was all of it for me.

It has been quite a difficult but mutually supportive and caring friendship but now my friend, or rather now my ex-friend has said they never want to speak to me or hear from me ever again. They have pretty much said our whole association was only useful to them when they felt depressed and that I am/was nothing to them as an individual person. A short while back they would have been horrified by anyone saying something as cruel as this to anyone, let alone it being thier own words.

I feel very hurt by all this, but I accept thier postion and indeed, I don't want contact with someone who behaves as badly as this. However, I wondered if any of this could be related to bi-polar behaviour? There is nothing I can do if it is, but I am curious. They are nothing like the person I knew the last few years, its like dealing with a total stranger. I realise people develop and change anyway, its just the size and abruptness of the personality change that has shocked me. They have no obvious self awareness of being any different, other than to say they are really happy these days and life is great.

So, could this be linked to bi-polar in any way? I have no experience of bi-polar or related behaviours to compare it to.

The above reads like a very convincing description of someone with a condition that could fit into the bi-polar spectrum.

Bi-polar isn't like appendicitis with a well defined set of symptoms; it's a spectrum, add to that that everyone is different.

2 choices; tolerate the behaviour in the knowledge that it's the expression of an illness, or accept that your relationship has changed and move on.

How old are you, how old are they?

Some may remember the many posts I made last summer about a housemate (and old friend) who was behaving in a way which I felt totally betrayed the friendship. After much reading and thought I came to the conclusion he was suffering from depression. I offered my help, suggested to his brother (who lived in the same house) that this guy could be suffering from mental illness and could probably do some help. It got very very unpleasant and I eventually moved out and have had no contact since.

I also mulled over this for many months afterwards (could I have done things differently, did my behaviour help break the friendship, was I being too understanding etc etc) but at the end of the day realised that if he was so ill not be able to recognise the damage he was doing to himself and to those who cared about him, then I had to walk away (as you have done). I also realised I had to simply leave it behind and stop analysing it – it didn't help me move on from the painful experience..

…and there's always the somewhat painful idea that they may be at least as normal as you, and right about your relationship…

Knowing the age of the protagonists is vital here.

There's no reason to be hurt, their change of mind is all about them and nothing about you. I don't think this is bipolar behaviour – it sounds more like a personality shift, though I don't know the medical term

My brother had a mate who did something similar but in a much more violent (not physically) way, massively divisive between mutual friends and long and short of it was he made my brother question himself so much he took my brother down with him.
Any kind of mental illness is hard on the people caught in the crossfire as well but you will be no good to them, you or anyone else if you don't put yourself first and be a little selfish.
Am "fortunate" enough to have been around 3 other people having various issues and have felt variously worthless, helpless, sad, angry and frustrated with only occasional bursts of joy or satisfaction at feeling like I did something right.
I came to the conclusion that their diagnosis was no good to me, I am not a pro with any training so just dealt with anything I saw without trying to work out what I "should do".
Turns out some of them later appreciated having some normal time.
Just make sure you take care of you, as you already know it can get messy.

I knew someone in Uni who I think was Bi polar he would fluctuate madly between highs and lows. He is a very clever guy but any problems that beset him he always blamed on others even though most were self inflicted. Had a stunning girlfriend he treated like dirt and who he finished with then moped around for months feeling sorry for himself. Became increasingly sleazy and erratic in his behavior. Left Uni and cut any contact with his male friends, got beaten up in Liverpool for groping a girl in front of her boyfriend then blamed the violence on the other guy being thick and uneducated.

A real shame because he was excellent company.

My diagnosis may be way out as I am not a qualified practitioner of mental health

5yrs sounds like a very long time to span a trough and then peak.

Pigface- Erm, not Bipolar. Just a dick.

You keep referring to this one person as "They". It sounds like you're mixing it up with the old perception of schizophrenia.

Many tracks in my iTunes and much of my TV viewing feature "Manic Depressives"

'Depression' and 'Bipolar' are much overused and misused labels. Both conditions are misunderstood, not only by the general public, but by many of the non-psychiatric medical profession.

Age is important as behaviour changes with age, what would be considered normal in someone's teens and early twenties would be quite bizarre if they were older.

If this person is in their teens then it is less likely that they're bipolar, and more likely that they're a moody and fickle teenager.

The person is in thier 30's but has experienced large mood swings over extended time periods since thier teens. I am a few years older than they are.

I refer to them as 'they' as I do not wish thier privacy to be invaded, or for them to be identified as an individual. I have tried to hide the sex of my friend by using 'they' as part of trying to be relatively discreet.

I am sympathetic if they are ill. I do feel worried/sad I have contributed to this situation in ways I did not comprehend enough at the time – but I am not a psychologist, just a person and I am a flawed person at that. It is difficult to negotiate with someone if they won't tell you what is wrong and keep saying 'no rules, no rules' if you offer to agree to boundaries they seem to have wanted in the first place. My friend can be extreme in thier view – one of thier statements right at the beginning was "you must not say nice things about me, no one is allowed to".

They have every right to withdraw from an association with me. I was happy to look at any misunderstandings or any behaviour deemed 'bad' that I might have done and review the whole set up etc even if it meant lots less contact, but when I tried to obtain information on what I had done wrong and negotiate they kept falling back on avoiding me becasue they thought I fancied them and saying they were not prepared to discuss anything even slightly 'in the past'. I have really loved them for thier friendship, but nothing more.

I might have tried to sit it out, as it is not thier fault if they do turn out to actually be ill rather than the range of alternatives ie that I am not likeable, but if someone wants nothing to do with me, I have no alternative but to loose contact. I am very sad over this as they were a fantastic friend for a long time and could not have been a nicer person in every sense. I really miss the person who used to be there. I do not miss the person they appear to have so suddenly become.

"…and there's always the somewhat painful idea that they may be at least as normal as you, and right about your relationship… "
Yes indeed. Partly it is what I am trying to find out. It is the abruptness and very extreame change of attitude from them that makes me question it. I suppose it is easier to think that they might be ill, rather than to think someone I cared for a great deal sees me as worthless and just did not bother to mention it for months or years, as they seem not to be now saying I was of no use to them for several years.

I am not saying nothing is my fault – I can think of several things I could have handled better, though I dont know if it would have actually changed the outcome we have arrived at or not. I am saying I am bewildered and want to understand better what could have gone so wrong. I dont want to think of them as nasty, if in fact they are ill. They deserve better than that if those are the circumstances, but I am also aware I deserve to be treated better than the way they have behaved towards me in the last few weeks. I was a good friend towards them too, for a long time.

In their thirties the behaviour is abnormal, people tend to be less fickle by that age. Could she (I'm assuming) be projecting onto you, and be reacting to a perceived rejection by yourself?

Most people have cyclical variation of mood to a greater or lesser extent.

I have to say, it's impossible to make a reasonable assessment over the internet.

Is there a 3rd party who knows both of you that you could discretely ask if they've noticed any recent changes in either of your personalities?

Kramer, yes I dont expect perfect diagnosis, as whatever I write here is of course coloured by my own personality and (mis)perceptions. Also I cannot write out every detail of recent history. I was looking more for a 'yes, its one of the possiblities' or a 'no that does not fit bi-polar in any way'.

I dont know if I made them feel rejected, it is a good question – they would never have been interested in me romantically so I would have thought they would have felt releived that I was looking for a friend not a lover. My friend is dating someone, so they are not on thier own. It does cross my mind that now they are dating someone they might not need a 'support service' from me anymore, but I dont know if thats fair or not, or if that is only a red herring to friendship breakdown that would be there anyway.

We have no mutual friends it would be appropriate for me to approach as we met via employment a very long time before we became friends. Also given the refusal of contact, I dont think it would be right for me to try, as it is not appropriate in this particular situation to be so invasive when someone has said basically that they want nothing else to do with me.

If you want to find out more about bi-polar read Stephen Fry's experiences.

For an insight into personality disorder get the DVD "Tom and Viv" with Miranda Richardson giving a chilling performance as Vivienne – TS Eliot's wife. Though don't be fooled by reviews that say this film is passionate, romantic or light viewing (as I was) If you have a close relationship with someone who has these problems you may end up in tears.

If your are emotionally involved with the person(or they think they are with you) the situation will be impossible to live with and you will both end up very hurt unless you are very devoted.

It is easier if you are good friends and you can accept that they are ill and will need support and (hardest of all) if you can move past the hurt they will throw in your direction. If they are like the people I know they will not recognise or understand the hurt. They will have few if any friends because few people can cope with them because they do come across as "a dick".

And 5 years is not a long time to span through a trough and peak for the person I know -which makes it even more difficult for those who love them (or should love them).

None of this may apply to your friend and nobody can say on the basis of an internet forum. I respond to this on the basis of really knowing two people – one person within the family the other the second wife to my best friend. He was unable to cope and left that relationship. The choices are more difficult with family.

Good luck if you choose to support your friend.

Hi Steve – odd you should mention personality disorder, because that's the first thing that struck me when I read the OP.
Midnighthour – when you said your friend had been 'self medicating', do you know what with? Are we talking alcohol / street drugs?

Steve, thank you for your post. I found it quite touching as well as having useful info in.

I am not a mental health professional but have a little insight into mental health issues.

To me the behaviour seems abnormal. The rejection you got could well be as a result of disordered thoughts. Bi Polar is certainly a possible diagnosis but by no means certain.

My advice to you is accept what they have said. Keep the door open to them however. If it is a part of an illness then they may change their mind and view in future.

Well, most people drink so I cant really answer that one, but yes street drugs were involved in the past. I got the impression it reduced as depression lifted and I think it was used becasue of low self esteem as well as depression. I have no idea of the position over say the last year as its not really right to say 'and what are you on now' as its not like it helps to ask.

Tandem, I dont think they want the door kept open, sadly. I cant see them ever wanting to associate with me again. My ex friend is deeply stubborn in personlity (we are alike) and I suspect once a door is shut, it is bolted and then welded closed. They said once it was only my stubborness that stopped me giving up on them when they hit a bad phase. Actually, I had just thought they were worth the effort and the stubborness just helped.

I'm bi-polar (rapid cycling, type 2 apparently), and they sound bi-polar to me, could be wrong. Distancing themselves from you, and going out of the way to avoid you, and random acts of pointless verbal cruelty to friends and colleagues, it's nowt personal, it's just a perfectly normal (but extremely frigging annoying) and major factor in the condition/behaviour for many, but not all people who are bi-polar.

The age of the protagonists is an irrelevance, although the syndrome usually starts to show in the teens or early twenties, it is no real indicator of anything without a corresponding clinical diagnosis, which regularly may not actually be made until the patient is in their thirties or forties.

Because of the broad spectrum of symptoms/behaviour and ways of showing,in many situations, it is commonly misdiagnosed as simple depression or as a potentially contentious dis-associative disorder, then mistreated for years which just makes it worse,get them to a professional rather than a merely a gp who will just prescribe citolopram.

At the end of the day, the performance shows a quite a few bi-polar traits, but that doesn't mean she is, nothing more than an indicator really, sorry not to have been more help.

Thanks Womble, nice of you to assist and you have helped.

I have to sign off now, will check to see if anyone posts anything else helpful sometime over the weekend.

This thread has been quite helpful, so thanks to everyone so far. Whatever the background or reasons, I think I just feel sad I have lost someone I really cared about, probabally forever.
Bit of a bummer.

I am a mental health nurse. It looks like your friend has some behavioural traits that certainly wouldn't rule them out of BPAD, but to be honest my first thought was Borderline Personality Disorder, into which those behaviours would also seem to fall. I would want to know a lot more about your friend before planting my flag in either of those 2 areas though.

I would want to know a lot more about your friend before planting my flag in either of those 2 areas though.

There's something ever so slightly unsettling about that as a phrase, regardless of the context…

😆
Unfortunate and unintended innuendos are my clinical speciality. 8)

OP: it's very unlikely to be in any way your fault. Only a good friend would express the concern you have. Don't blame yourself.

I am also bi-polar and like Jahwomble above I have also been diagnosed as soft bi-polar or bi-polar II rather than what is often regarded as classic bi-polar I.

I was just in my 40's when I was fully diagnosed although it has taken me perhaps another 4 years to finally accept or recognize and come to terms with my condition.

Sadly, I recognize myself in the description of the behaviour of your friend and have also lost several friends over the last few years during my frequent but thankfully self limiting manic phases.

From what I remember from the Stephen Fry documentary he had only cycled through his depressed and manic phases a few times in the his life. He certainly experienced several years between depression and or mania. Not sure what the definition of rapid cycling is but I am lucky if I get a few months of relatively stable mood at time.

julianwilson beat me to it, borderline PD was my thought on reading.
As had been said though, diagnosis is not easy, and things overlap, twould need a mental health pro, time, experience and a good collateral history to properly diagnose.

all IMH and partly informed opinion though.