Evening,

Has anyone had experience of converting ‘normal’ H7 halogen headlights to HID?

My ’55 Saab 9-3 dip beam is pretty poor (compared to the H7 main beams which are excellent).
I’ve ‘upgraded’ to better halogen bulbs (Osram Nightbreaker) with marginal improvement.

A quick google has revealed a couple of outfits that sell upgrade kits, with bulb, balllast etc but curious how it will work
In a Halogen mounting. Lights are ‘Projector’ style.

Thanks for any comments

CP

They’ll fit just fine and be a big improvement for you, BUT, won’t actually be legal as such. Officially you need to have headlight washers and self levelling headlight units which = megabucks. Lots of people do put them in though, so it might be one of those things that ends up being tolerated. I suppose MOT time will tell.

According to the AA, the MOT rules are being changed to clamp down more on it. I never had any trouble getting mine (in a motorbike) through previously, but then I spent a lot of time getting the beam right.

Bottom line for me is that if it’s not safe, it shouldn’t pass an MOT and lots of DIY HID installs are definately unsafe- terrible glare. How well it works depends entirely on the headlight so best bet is to find an owner’s club forum.

Oh, but the other thing is, they’re very easily reversed so if you do manage to get a good, safe setup but can’t get it through the MOT, not to worry, you can always go back to bulbs for the day.

this is a link to the original DfT guideance –
http://dftsample.fubradev.vc.catn.com/policy-guidance-and-research/aftermarket-hid-xenon-headlamps

However I can’t find it on the current site, probably due to the fact they’ll be covered by the MOT as of next year, which will require headlamp washers and the self-levelling to be fitted/working.
I’ve not seen the updates for the testing manual yet though, so I’m not entirely sure in depth the checks will be.

will require headlamp washers

That’s weird.

Dirty headlamps presumably will deflect the beam and blind other road users.

You can also use self-levelling suspension rather than headlights. With the Mondeo this is as simple as fitting the self levelling shocks/dampers from a Ghia model. No wiring, no sensors, they just self level within the first minute or so of your journey

I fitted a set in my car a few weeks ago and was a pretty straightforward job.
Were definitely out of line so got local MOT station to line them up.
Big improvement over the halogens.

had some for 2 years. No issues come MOT time twice, easy to fit, cheap at circa £40 and very bright.

Make sure you get 5,000k or 6,000k the higher the K the more blue the lights, which not only looks crap, but also aren’t that bright.

I believe the MOT regs are changing next year, otherwise I would have done exactly the same on my BMW – dipped beam is truly appalling on wet surfaces – I might as well not have the lights on.

Currently if you have projector style lenses I believe it’s legal to fit an HID kit, but probably counts as a “modification” as far as insurance goes.

I guess the simple answer is to swap halogen lights back in for the MOT once a year, but that’s a right old ballache, and you’re still stuffed on the insurance front.

The regulations change from April/May 2012 in relation to HID & LED lamps, if a vehicle is fitted with either then the car MUST have:

1, Headlamp washers

2, Headlamp self leveling

There are some changes in January but non of these effect the above, so if you have a kit fitted and the beam & alignment are ok then it can pass an MOT, until the above change come into effect.

The regulations change from April/May 2012 in relation to HID & LED lamps, if a vehicle is fitted with either then the car MUST have:

1, Headlamp washers

2, Headlamp self leveling

There are some changes in January but non of these effect the above, so if you have a kit fitted and the beam & alignment are ok then it can pass an MOT, until the above change come into effect.

This.

Apparently, whilst it has been a legal requirement for several years, there is nothing specific about it in the MOT test regs at present. The new rules will be clamping down on these lights, number plates and window tinting (amongst others) according to a local VOSA inspector.

Before you change them, are you sure that your dipped beams are set-up correctly?

Since winter has encroached and I am driving more often than not in the dark, I noticed that my lights seem to have very bad ‘throw’ compared to normal. I was struggling to see on unlit roads and the light was only being cast about 3-4 metre in front of the car.
I have just replaced the bulbs, so checked them to make sure I had fitted them correctly; I had.

I think that the place I last had the car mot’d/serviced at must have adjusted them & put them far too low. I have temporarily lifted them myself slightly & have checked they are not dazzling anyone. I’ll get them sorted out at the next service, which isn’t too far away.

Perhaps yours just need lifting? Unless the throw is OK, it’s just not bright enough?

had my set fitted in various cars since about 2005 and they have been and passed all mots since then

currently fitted to a vectra with projector headlights and the difference in amazing compared to normal halogen headlight bulbs

Just fit brighter bulbs or check your wiring. FFS HID conversions are hideous.

spooky_b329 – Member

Dirty headlamps presumably will deflect the beam and blind other road users.

The justification is that the brighter lights combined with dirty headlights could cause fires. Despite there being no evidence of this ever having happened.

Are these the lights that blind and glare me as if they’re permanently on full beam? Are they not fitted correctly, or not supposed to be fitted to the headlamp units that people are using them in?

If so, why do people fit something that dazzles oncoming traffic?

vinnyeh – Member

Are these the lights that blind and glare me as if they’re permanently on full beam?

Sometimes. But also, sometimes they’re just permanently on full beam- user error can turn standard headlights into a hazard after all, no amount of safety measures can stop idiots being idiots. An awful lot of HID kits are fitted by knobbers so there’s a strong correlation there too.

You won’t really notice the well fitted ones unless you know what to look for. HID retrofits aren’t inherently unsafe or dazzling.

andydicko – Member
The regulations change from April/May 2012 in relation to HID & LED lamps, if a vehicle is fitted with either then the car MUST have:

1, Headlamp washers

2, Headlamp self leveling

There are some changes in January but non of these effect the above, so if you have a kit fitted and the beam & alignment are ok then it can pass an MOT, until the above change come into effect.

I think that you might be wrong about that actually.

MOT Manual
Vehicles equipped with High Intensity Discharge (HID) or LED dipped beam headlamps may be fitted with headlamp washers and a suspension or headlamp self levelling system.

Where such systems are fitted, they must work; however, it is accepted that it may not be possible to readily determine the functioning of self levelling systems. In such cases, the benefit of the doubt must be given.

Fox
Inoperative or defective. Not ‘not present’.

This means two things most people dont realise it means:

a) If you retrofitted HID’s into crappy reflector lenses with no washers and no levelling, your car will pass its MOT

b) If you drive a car with conventional, non HID headlights that happens to be fitted with headlight washers, and they dont work, your car will fail its MOT

Bizarre.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=1088527&d=0&nmt=

^^^^

I have HID bulbs in halogen projectors with headlight washers, have done so for almost 4 years and have had no problems at MOT time.

The last time my car was tested was back in September and the headlight washers were not working. Maybe I was lucky or maybe the tester applied a bit of pragmatism given that my HID bulbs weren’t a 55W 8000k kit?

Mine have passed MOTs for the past 3-4 years.Theres 3 or 4 levels of adjustment on the dash too so im not sure if that helps.

The amount they light up road signs,road markings and the eyes of animals is so much better than the OE ones.Not to mention how much sooner you actually see these things in the distance.

Seems to be lots of contradictory info out there, for example this from a VOSA doc http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/technicalpenpicture3-lighting.pdf

“Dazzle can also be caused if the lamps are dirty or aimed too high due to, for example, carrying
rear seat passengers and/or heavy items in the boot. Vehicles with HID headlamps are therefore
required to have a headlamp washing system (a wiper is not required) and be self levelling, which
may be achieved either by the use of either headlamp or suspension levelling systems.

The presence and operation of these headlamp cleaning and levelling devices has been
added to the test. Therefore, if a mandatory headlamp levelling or cleaning device is missing,
inoperative or otherwise obviously defective, the vehicle will fail.

This raises the question of whether these checks apply to vehicles fitted with after-market HID
lighting kits. These kits convert conventional halogen headlamps to HID Xenon and they are
widely sold and fitted to vehicles used on the road. The Department for Transport considers
that after-market systems should be required to meet the same safety standards as that applied
in respect of these lamps at vehicle Type Approval. Therefore, in order to pass the MOT
test, vehicles fitted with after-market HID systems would also need to be fitted with headlamp
cleaning and self-levelling systems. Some high specification estate cars are fitted with a self-
levelling suspension system and this would be considered as adequate for the purpose.”

And these regs take effect from 1st Jan 2012 so it doesn’t matter if your HID kit has passed MOT previously, it’s future MOTs which matter 🙂

I’ve never been quite sure why anyone actually wants much brighter dipped lights, main beams fair enough (I run 100w bulbs myself)but the aftermarket hids just seem to replace the dipped lights. As far as I see it if you need it when there’s street lighting then you really need to go to an opticians, without street lighting then use main beams, unless there’s someone coming the other way. If that’s the case then you’d just have a far greater chance of dazzling them with aftermarket hids.

You can fit so called “xenon” bulbs in normal halogen car lamps, these have a higher light output and as far as I am aware are fully legal. They do make a difference compared to normal halogen bulbs but they can have a far shorter lifespan (1000-1500hrs compared to 5000-10000hrs). They are nowhere near as good as a proper OEM Xenon system however, you are looking at about 8-10% improvement in light output. OEM Xenon systems meanwhile have a far higher light output than these and give a whiter light, the “Xenon” style halogen bulbs are tinted blue to mimic this but it isnt quite the same.

You can get aftermarket HID xenon lamps for cars and bikes…however, these are illegal to use on road…your car can fail its MOT and if you are stopped by the Police they can nick you for having them (if they actually notice). An HID car lamp is about 40% brighter than a Halogen and, if its a 35W system or higher as most are, needs to have an auto leveling system and headlamp washers to prevent light glare to other road users. There are some new 25W systems ( as on the new Focus) which dont need these as they are lower power.

There are a lot of aftermarket cheapo HID kits now available from China (you can get these on Ebay BTW…they tend to be branded as Hella, Valeo etc but, er, aren’t)…these work (well, kinda sort of) but can have some rather “interesting” effects on your cars ECU, we’ve had lots of reports of cars having, for example, the windscreen wipers going off when the lights are switched on due to crosstalk. Oh, they are also not ECE or DOT approved so are, of course, Illegal…there have been some fires as well…well, you pays your money and makes your choice.

This will be a bit irrelevent soon as a lot of the car manufacturers are going to full LED systems in the next decade.

Geez I know far too much about this having spent the last 4 years designing these things… 😯

I converted a Saab to HID bulbs a few years ago and they were generally good but they were horrible/dangerous in foggy conditions.

Reading the above this may have been an alignment issue but I am sure they were at the correct level.

I ended up swapping them back

I think that you might be wrong about that actually.

MOT Manual
Vehicles equipped with High Intensity Discharge (HID) or LED dipped beam headlamps may be fitted with headlamp washers and a suspension or headlamp self levelling system.

Where such systems are fitted, they must work; however, it is accepted that it may not be possible to readily determine the functioning of self levelling systems. In such cases, the benefit of the doubt must be given

If you read the post, I have said it’s a new Reg coming in next April/May, so yes, it’s not currently in the testers manual!!!

So yes, at present a car with retro-fitted HID lamps will pass as long as they are aligned correctly, but come April/May 2012, they MUST have self leveling & headlamp wash!

andydicko – Member
If you read the post, I have said it’s a new Reg coming in next April/May, so yes, it’s not currently in the testers manual!!!

So yes, at present a car with retro-fitted HID lamps will pass as long as they are aligned correctly, but come April/May 2012, they MUST have self leveling & headlamp wash!

I did read it, the post I linked to on Pistonheads is about the 2012 regs.

mat13 said:
Is that the current MOT manual or the one for the new test coming in in 2012?

Fox said:
The new test coming in 2012.

Have you checked the Voltage that you are actually getting at the bulbs ?
A lot of wiring systems have large voltage drops through the circuit and by the time you get to the lights it can be as low as 10v from 3-14v at the alternator output.
VW`s are notoriously bad for this and can be massively improved by running a Relayed Headlamp loom.
Effectively a spotlight relay circuit for Dip and another one for main beam.

Do a search for “Daniel Stern lighting” if you want more information, really quite useful.

I actually prefer the light given from a properly functioning Halogen System, with proper bulbs, as you get far less glare from roadside furniture than with HID. but that may mean you need to make / Buy a relayed loom and some decent bulbs