iDave is not the only coach in the world, and his view is not the only coach’s view.

Having a view doesn’t mean it’s correct though, does it? Are there really coaches who suggest that low intensity exercise is more effective than high intensity exercise at producing body fat loss ?

Interesting.

EDIT – BTW, I’m no longer a ‘coach’ but not because I was crap at it – IMO. I just enjoy doing different work now

The recurrence of threads on this topic have given me sympaphy for you iDave and have made me understand the tone you took with your diet advice earlier this year.

I’ve significantly reduced my body fat % this year, overall I’ve lost weight. At the same time I’ve increased my lean muscle mass.

I can explain how I’ve done it, whilst increasing my calorie intake, but it appears people don’t want to listen, or simply don’t want to change. (Chapeau Psychle… how’s your progress?)

I’ve been out for a three course meal, and drunk too much. I’m going to bed.

When i buggered off this year ans walked 670miles of coastpath i put on weight.

I started at 10 and a half stone, walked for 8-12hrs almost everyday, carrying around a 30lb pack, i consumed less than 2000 cals a day, some days less than a 1000cals, yet put on half a stone in the duration.

Exercise and calorie counting is not a way to lose weight.

HTH. 😉

Exercise and calorie counting is not a way to lose weight.

I like that advice.

*draws up plan to do nothing and eat loads*

this morning i had a bowl of muesli – ‘diluted’ with bitesize shredded wheat.

it’s my normal breakfast, i like it, and it’ll see me through till mid-day.

of course, i wanted a BEST sandwich – the kind that you can only get in sheffield.

there must be about 1000 calories in a BEST, and i haven’t got time today to do that much exercise. in terms of weight control it’s better that i just don’t eat it in the first place*.

WCA’s original point is valid.

(*and i don’t want a heart attack in my 30’s)

samuri – Member
clearly exercise is a waste of time. Tour riders pile in thousands and thousands of calories every day and look at them fat bastards.

Which must mean that eating loads is actually the best exercise?

Are there really coaches who suggest that low intensity exercise is more effective than high intensity exercise at producing body fat loss ?

There are coaches who say that LOTS of low intensity exercise is best for fat loss, yes. The point is you have to do loads of it. When I lost tons of weight I was doing 12-14 hours a week mostly low intensity, over the winter. When doing high intensity stuff for speed it’s only 6 hours a week, and four of those are still low intensity.

A fat loss/base training workout would be at least two hours long, up to 5 or so. A speed workout is 30 mins to an hour.

I couldn’t do 14 hours of high intensity exercise a week – it’d burn me out.

However if you have only got 4 hours a week, then intervals as you suggest could well be good. For me, if I do high intensity stuff I tend to maintain weight. I have to eat more to allow my body to recover, otherwise I can’t keep up the intensity. When I do the low intensity stuff I can slash the calories and continue to train.

There are coaches who say that LOTS of low intensity exercise is best for fat loss, yes.

who are the coaches say this? are you sure that’s what they’re saying? are any of them who say this selling products or services which relate to LOTS of low intensity exercise?

could well be good

it’s not that they ‘could well be good’ – it’s that there is a stack of research and user (such as TSY) evidence indicating that high intensity intervals are hugely more effective at removing body fat. and they’ll improve your endurance performance too.

why are sprinters so lean? is it all the marathon running they do?

actually, I give up, you’ve bought into something you read once and you refuse to think that you might be wrong.

are any of them who say this selling products or services which relate to LOTS of low intensity exercise?

Or peddling this to wanabe runners who are to idle to commit to what is really required, hard training! Selling both products and magazines!

why are sprinters so lean? is it all the marathon running they do?

What are stupid comment. If you cant see the difference between the physic of an elite marathon runner and an elite sprinter.

I have to back iDave here. While I don’t agree with all his conclusions ( no fruit!) his knowledge and analysis is clearly far greater than most of us.

Surfer – thats his point I think.

why are sprinters so lean? is it all the marathon running they do?

Alternatively, why are marathon runners so lean – is it all the sprinting they do? Presumably all the weight TdF riders lose is because they have a sprint at the end of every stage?

TJ/Idave

I see, I hadnt read the whole thread and missed that I understood it was a comment from someone else!

As a related aside LSD (long slow distance) advocated by some top running coaches has been hijacked by many in the 90’s and 00’s as a method of training. In short as long as you are “moving” it is “training”! This helped sell a lot of magazines and helped the fat and unfit convince themselves they were working hard towards a goal.

LSD in reality when used by top athletes stood for very long runs, 20 miles plus and actually wasnt very “slow” often under 6 minute miling for the whole distance.

who are the coaches say this? are you sure that’s what they’re saying?

My coach (Matt Hart of Torq and Singletrack fame) says this, and the previous one did too who was following the BC rules.

actually, I give up, you’ve bought into something you read once and you refuse to think that you might be wrong.

Something I once read? It’s something I had explained to me along with the science, and something I continue to read.

It’s also something I’ve actually tried and found to work.

Like I say – I (and anecdotally, many other cyclists I’ve spoken to) lose weight much much more in the winter when I’m doing lots more long slow stuff. I simply do not lose weight when I am doing high intensity training. I’ve done 4 years of this now and it’s been proven each time. For me.

If I’ve got 15 hours per week in which to cycle, are you saying I should do 15 hours high intensity exercise a week? Do you think I’d be able to keep it up?

It’s really base training, for various endurance reasons, but that lets you get much more cycling in which is burning a large percentage of fat – so you aren’t draining your glycogen stores and stimulating appetite.

Lots of long slow definitely works for me and my goals, one of which is fat loss. Depending on your situation, where you’re starting from and available time and commitment you may get good results with this approach. You may also get good results doing HIIT.

I’m not surprised you weren’t a good coach if you are completely convinced only one approach is right.

Out of interest, where d’you get your information from?

If I’ve got 15 hours per week in which to cycle, are you saying I should do 15 hours high intensity exercise a week?

what on earth are you talking about? this is not a thread about your training, it’s about what type of exercise is is more effective at shifting body fat. go back and ask matt hart, i’d be amazed if he agrees with you that low intensity exercise is better for fat loss. it may be better at training your body to be more efficient at burning fat as a fuel, but that is completely different from the best way to become leaner. Is that where you’re getting confused? Do you think we’re referring to the efficiency to burn fat and you’re confusing that with body fat loss?

I’m not surprised you weren’t a good coach if you are completely convinced only one approach is right.

When did I say only one approach to training was right? BTW, the last two riders I coached won rainbow jerseys. I can add more results, but maybe that’s enough for now.

Oh, and this isn’t some new fangled theory I came up with in the bath – Impact of Exercise Intensity on Body Fatness and Skeletal Muscle Metabolism, ‘ Metabolism, vol. 43(7), pp 814-818, 1994

No no, I know it’s not your own made up theory – I read the paper you linked to when we last did this.

The thing is, most of us on this site are already cyclists with a fair few miles and years in our legs, and we want to lose weight and also improve our cycling. Surely this is different to untrained people simply wanting to shift fat? If you are already going on long rides on weekends, doing more focused base training would help utilise more fat on those regular rides, no?

If you only did HIIT as a cyclist you’d not be great on longer rides either.

Lots of factors involved… So maybe this is why we are talking at cross purposes?

molgrips I hate to say this, but…

HIIT has improved my endurance for longer distance rides, and allowed me to ride at a harder pace on these rides too. FACT.

Why does your current running training include interval training?

HIIT has also improved my attractiveness to the opposite sex, increased my brainpower, typing speed and my connect 4 cunning. Possibly not fact…

help utilise more fat

that’s not what the discusion is about. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT BURNING FAT AS FUEL DURING EXERCISE I AM TALKING ABOUT LOSING BODY FAT THROUGH AN EXERCISE PROGRAM AND HIGH INTENSITY INTERVALS ARE MORE BLOODY EFFECTIVE THAN **** LONG SLOW **** RIDES

Surely this is different to untrained people simply wanting to shift fat

BOLLOCKS IS IT

So maybe this is why we are talking at cross purposes?

NO, IT’S BECAUSE YOU’RE CONFUSED AND STUBBORN

Lost another 4 lbs this week. Hard work in the gym every day for the hour I have available to do it and a restricted calorie diet. Been working consistently for almost three months now. The cross trainer says I use around 1000 calories an hour even if its 20% out that’s still a fair bit in a 30 minute session add 30 minutes of weights and machines and it’s all good.

Eat less do more seems pretty self evident

Dave mate, please.. all I ever wanted was a discussion on the subject.. I don’t want a row.

I’m not being stubborn, I just haven’t seen answers to my questions that’s all (christ I sound like TJ 🙁 )

The thing is, I’ve seen what, 2 papers that didn’t seem aimed at cyclists, and you telling me that HIIT is best, and a coach giving me a training programme which seems to fit with what I thought was a conventional approach, and seems to work for me.

I’d love to discuss the effects of pure HIIT on a typical cyclist’s performance and weight and learn something, but I don’t wanna get you wound up any more. Apologies for that.

I almost started to write a long explanation, but why? I’m giving up on you. You pay someone to coach you so ask them. But if you want to lose fat, HIIT and low GI is the way to go. In the process you’ll become faster on the bike. That may be hugely different from a training program for a particular 24 or some other challenge given your individual nuances. Go figure.

I almost started to write a long explanation, but why?

The long explanation is what I’ve been really interested this whole time! Please!

swimming may be considered low intensity but it provides lots of resistance so not only are you using energy to move but also working lots of muscle groups too, which need fuel to recover. This process has a longer effect on the metabalism. Because it is using such a variety of muscle groups it is probably a good fat burner too in the same way weight training is. Circuit training is the same in the that it is using muscle groups but also different as it occurs at a higher intensity.Although I doubt circuit training is more effective than weight training in fat burning as although the heart rate is increased and more movement actually occurs (through higher reps) purely lifting weights tends to be more intense for shorter periods with less movements. ie you may lift heavier weights with shorter reps so less movement occuring but higher muscle recovery effect on the metabalism as a result of more muscle recovery required post training. Could it be possible that the body get’s used to one type of excercise quite quickly and then becomes more efficient and thus one single method i.e. higher intensity or low intensity is not the answer. The answer may be to chop and change to keep stimaulting fat burning in the body. So both 😆 IMHO of course.

Molgrips. You have a very muddled views on this that you are certain are right and you don’t listen. I have given up on debating this with you and I am not surprised iDave has as well. Its [pointless debating this with you. You hold onto your misapprehensions for dear life.

Molgrips. You have a very muddled views on this that you are certain are right and you don’t listen

I don’t listen?! That’s rich!

I do listen tho. I listen to Mat Hart, I’ll listen to iDave if he gives me more info, I listened to the abstracts of the papers he posted links to (which is how come I came to the conclusion that they weren’t 100% relevant in what I consider the most likely situation on this forum), and I listen to you.

The thing is, when I listen to you I have more questions about YOUR understanding of things, but you ignore those questions which leaves me massively frustrated.

I almost started to write a long explanation, but why?

Dave, just give him the long explanation and then we can all move on.

A quick question. I don’t have a dial or setting saying low intensity or high intensity. the only easy gauge I have is heart rate. it seems to basically fluctuate between 120 and 180 when exercising. i am guessing low is 120 and high is 180.

What happens about 130-150 as that seems to be where my rate stays when I am exercising at a rate that I consider a bit faster than comfortable.

Have I invented MIITS? Mid Intensity Interval Training?

Can I write a paper about it, publish it on the interweb and then join iDave and co in their debate?

WorldClassAccident – under MIIT is it important to keep my hear rate at a constant ‘mid’ exersion level? If I do some work at a higher intensity then some at the lower level, as you’ve detailed above, so that my average heart rate for the whole session comes out at the prescribed mid level will this still burn fat? Will it make my bunny hops higher?

Thanks.

HIIT has also improved my attractiveness to the opposite sex, increased my brainpower, typing speed and my connect 4 cunning. Possibly not fact…

Loving that post.
😉

Well, I’ve had a quick scan through the thread. I’m sorry iDave’s caps-lock was stuck to ON for a while and I’m sorry Grips can’t get a grip on himself.

For me, I tend to think its better to avoid accumilating excess body fat in the first place, rather than relying on exercise to remove it, so I agree with the OP.
As I posted on the monster thread started by Alexxx.
I do not want to find myself relying on huge amounts of high intensity training to remove excess body fat when I’m older.

I believe you have to get your diet right, first, and in this, iDave’s contribution, as far as I’m concerned, has been welcome and useful.

Furthermore I admire iDaves’ resistance not to post too much about what he has achieved in the past or whatever, and instead has only posted on STW hoping that people on here will just try his advice and read what he posts, perhaps to learn and assess for themselves whether his remarks are sound advice.

Once you’ve got your food and eating sorted out, then I believe that you need to exercise to maintian a postive level of fitness in both mind and body.

Do a bit more of both eating and exercise, if you feel the need to win something.

Getting your diet right, and avoiding excess body fat is a really good idea for any number of reasons, and not just to be Faster on your bike.

That is all

😀

Well I just spent an hour riding around Swinley on a SS. Not particularly fast but enjoying myself. Occasionally fighting for breath and occasionally coasting around.

I then sat for about 30 minutes recovering with a cup of coffee (not milk or sugar)

I then spent an hour riding around Swinley at a similar pace on similar trails but with a fixed rear wheel (same ratio) and at the end of the hour my legs were knackered. Cumulative effect or is riding fixie making more energy demands?

Depends if you use your legs to brake or not.

But yes, one hour then another hour shortly afterwards is a two hour ride with a break, innit. So clearly you’re gonna be more tired towards the end 🙂