g’day,

Long time lurker and generally bad mtb’er here.

I’m hoping the hive mind can help with some legal advise regarding my neighbour (lets call her Kylie :wink:).

We live in a semi-detached period property and last year Kylie had some building works done on her part of the building (roofing replaced etc). As part of this they erected some scaffolding on the porch to our house which abuts the rear of their home.

In the process of this, the builders (lets call him Jason..) damaged our roof, and removed our downpipe. Kylie suggested we speak directly to Jason to try and resolve the issue, but the phone call my wife made resulted in her ending in tears, with Jason the builder shouting and swearing at her. They eventually bodged a replacement pipe but the work was very poor, and didn’t fix the roof.

We’ve now been in correspondence with Kylie for some time, but she refuses to accept any responsibility for the problems, or to resolve the issue. She has some legal training and is trying to use this to bully us into submission.

Is it worth pursuing this through small claims? The sums involved are not large, but feel angry at the thought of being beaten by her (perhaps we’re too principled?).

If we do, who is liable? Her or the builders? She’s been quoting legal cases stating it’s not her responsibility…

Chance

Is Kylie fit?

Would this come under party wall act?

On the face of it the builder was acting on her behalf, at her request and therefore she is liable for anything that said builder did.

I’d be inclined to get a quote for repairs to be carried out and then tell her that is how much you need to get things put right and that you would like the money within 28 days. If she doesn’t pay up (and it sounds as though it’s unlikely she would) then get the work done and issue a small claims court summons for the costs.

IANAL

Call your home insurance company, most have some form of legal cover, they are best placed to advise you and might well issue any letters etc to get the ball rolling….

From the legal training I’ve received through Google, I don’t believe the Party Wall Act is of any assistance. The works were completed almost 12 months ago, and no agreement was in place.

Wombat- we’ve had three quotes done already, and she’s received these but to no effect.

Cloudnine- thankfully not, (although if she was at least there would be some benefit having her as a neighbour…)

“As part of this they erected some scaffolding on the porch to our house which abuts the rear of their home.” did they have your permission to do this ?

Is this not what house building insurance is for? Accidental damage to your house. Claim on yours for the roof damage. Let them take the neighbour/builder to court if they deem it appropriate.

Though that ship may have sailed if this happened almost a year ago and they weren’t notified at the time.

They were acting as her agents, as she had employed them to carry out the work.
Any damage caused by their actions should be made good. If not I’d release the home insurance legal hounds.
Just place it in their hands and let them sort it out.

Go after the builder.

He should have insurance.

Did you have an access agreement with her that covered any damage?

If not I suspect you are better off issuing small claims proceedings against the builder who actually did the damage and was negligent rather than against your neighbour who has done nothing wrong .

IAAL but not the sort you need.

Get the work done and pay for it yourself but never forget. Give her dead eyes whenever you pass and blank her in the street. Never take in parcels for her and gossip and bitch about her with your other neighbours and with your wife. That’s what I’d do.

Wombat- we’ve had three quotes done already, and she’s received these but to no effect.

1 Stop pi55ing around and get the work done asap, as it’s your property that could be damaged.
2 Send her a bill, payable on receipt and indicate that interest (at 2% pcm) will be charged for late payment
3 Remind her in 30 days time
4 Take legal action – obviously taking into account cost vs return

claim on your insurance if you want to sub out the hastle. They won’t be wanting to pay it, so will recover costs. They DO have legal training and rarely give in. Sounds like she should have issued a party wall notice to me. She doesn’t have a leg to stand on.

You could suggest that this is an option you might use, and her paying up will save her quite a bit of hastle and money.

Get the work done and pay for it yourself but never forget. Give her dead eyes whenever you pass and blank her in the street. Never take in parcels for her and gossip and bitch about her with your other neighbours and with your wife. That’s what I’d do.

this and then find jasons crappy white van and deposit several banana’s up the exhaust for being a **** to your wife

The decision you’re looking for is Alcock v Wraith[/u], wherein a roofer undertaking works for a neighbour caused damage to the claimant’s property. The roofer became insolvent, so the claimant sued his neighbour. It was held that because of the risk of damage occurring if the works were not done correctly, the neighbour owed a non-delegable duty to the claimant to ensure that no damage was caused.

HTH

Jakester not my area at all and i am happy to be wrong but the binding authority of the first google hit gave me the bellow quote

Alcock v Wraith, provided the general rule, where Neill LJ stated:

“where someone employs an independent contractor to do work on his behalf he is not in the ordinary way responsible for any tort committed by the contractor in the course of the execution of the work

The main exceptions to the principle fall into the following categories:

(a) Cases where the employer is under some statutory duty which he cannot delegate. (b) Cases involving the withdrawal of support from neighbouring land. (c) Cases involving the escape of fire. (d) Cases involving the escape of substances, such as explosives, which have been brought on to the land and which are likely to do damage if they escape; liability will attach under the rule in Rylands v Fletcher (1868) LR 3 HL 330. (e) Cases involving operations on the highway which may cause danger to persons using the highway. (f) Cases involving non-delegable duties of an employer for the safety of his employees. (g) Cases involving extra-hazardous acts.”

Biffa Waste Services Ltd. v. Outokumpu Wenmac AB then further clarified the last category so that only if the activities of the independent contractor are ‘ultra hazardous’ can an exception to this general principle potentially apply, and then that exception “should be applied only to activities that are exceptionally dangerous whatever precautions are taken”.

crankboy – Member
Jakester not my area at all and i am happy to be wrong but the binding authority of the first google hit gave me the bellow quote

You’re right, it’s not your area at all. Why did I spend all that time training to be a lawyer when I could have just looked it up on Google? 🙄

Alcock v Wraith is a special category of non-delegable duty where there are adjoining properties, as in OP’s case. It is an exception to the general independent contractor defence.

You also appear to have taken the commentary from here;

http://www.alway-associates.co.uk/legal-update/article.asp?id=293

Which is in fact a commentary by construction claims consultants about a totally different decision.

I had a similar issue with our neighbour a while back, they had a building company in to do their fascias and soffits and they left the bottom ridge tiles loose – you could see they were. I mentioned it to our neighbour and they did nothing. One night we had a storm and there was a bang – one of the tiles had blown off the roof and smashed into my car. Building company didn’t want to know, nor did our neighbour. My work fixed it in the end as it was a company motor but I was shocked how rude and unhelpful the building company were – it was clearly their fault.
My advice would be to send her a letter by recorded post explaining what has happened and giving her 30 days to sort it or you will arrange it and bill her. Google money claim online and file a case to recover the costs from her. Good luck.

By the way the building company was VIRGO and they were clearly just a bunch of disinterested sharks

Get your insurers to earn their money and recover your loss…

Have a chat with the building control officer as it may have been in the building control notice for the work.

Their is a significant factual difference between the owner being liable for the consequences of a badly installed joint between two roofs . The owners non-delagable duty being to repair and maintain the fabric of his adjoining building so it does not damage his neighbours and holding the owner liable for the actions of his builder which have nothing to do with the actual structure if the owners building. If I read the op correctly when raising scaffolding going on his roof. In practical terms why spend time and money chasing the householder where liability can and is being disputed when you can chase the builder who has no defense?

b r – Member

2 Send her a bill, payable on receipt and indicate that interest (at 2% pcm) will be charged for late payment

I am sure you do not have the power/right/authority to do this as there is no contract established between both parties.

4 Take legal action – obviously taking into account cost vs return

Yes, court battle starts … evidence, evidence and evidence.

🙂

er/right/authority to do this as there is no contract established between

And they don’t have the right to damage his property either.

Which is why, if they choose not to pay the bill, you start legal action to reclaim losses due to the damage they caused.

nealglover – Member

er/right/authority to do this as there is no contract established between

And they don’t have the right to damage his property either.

Which is why, if they choose not to pay the bill, you start legal action to reclaim losses due to the damage they caused. [/quote]

Yes, of course good neighbourly conduct means you should not damage others’ property.

The only way is either let the insurance company deal with her or go to court considering that she is not responding or taking responsibility of her contractor.

I would consult the insurance company first as their bureaucratic machine will grind the offending party down easily.

😀

Beyond the smalls claims court I wouldn’t take legal action with my own money. Because the costs to you can be significant

Have you spoken to your insurance company. They will have the clout to carry through legal action

jekkyl – Member
Get the work done and pay for it yourself but never forget. Give her dead eyes whenever you pass and blank her in the street. Never take in parcels for her and gossip and bitch about her with your other neighbours and with your wife. That’s what I’d do.

So much this!

Thanks for all of the replies so far!

It sounds like in our (in hindsight) naive attempts to resolve the situation as civilised grown ups, we have missed the best solution, i.e. to leave it to the insurance company to resolve…

Therefore it looks like the small claims route it is. However, we’re a bit confused as to the best party to pursue. We’ve received advice from the CAB to go after the neighbours, but some of the suggestions above are to pursue the builders.

We don’t really want any dealings with the builders, so the Neighbours would be the best option for us. Would anyone be able to point us in the right direction? The references / links above have been excellent so far and would help us in our righteous battle 😉

It is the Neighbours you claim against – the Builders were acting on the Neighbours behalf.

If it comes to it, the neighbours Ins. Co. will pursue the Builders, but you dont need to worry about that, your claim is against the neighbour.