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European enduro, how technical do you think they should be?
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juanFree Member
As per title, and I really mean technical, not engaged or anything. From what I have heard, on the other side of the channel they are all about downhill and big drops (may be wrong, but that is what transpire from here) down here it’s all about who’s the most complete rider. So all of them do have some pretty good pedalling sections, plenty of tricky techy “you have to pick up the good line” bits, and very few jumps.
Now the question is, how technical should they be?jam-boFull MemberI thought over here it was who can find the biggest shortcut….
thisisnotaspoonFree MemberDepends on the series, the 661/fettish series seems to be more DH, the enduro 1 seems like a staged XC race.
mafiafishFree MemberDone the Eastridge 661 enduro last year and a few of the Innerliethen ones and would say the level is about right. Eastrdge had a decent amount of ‘flowy’ pedaling whereas Inners was more techy plummeting with a mad dash up/ along fireroad. Both seemed good.
In every case the winner is an (often ex) pro Downhiller.
NorthwindFull MemberFWIW Andy Barlow won the King of the Hill, closely followed by Chris Ball- ex Scottish XC champion vs ex downhiller.
This idea that they’re all about downhill/big drops isn’t my experience at all. Sure, Innerleithen ones always use bits of the downhill trails, but it’s still just riding your bike. And ironically they tend to be the easier stages- it’s the purpose-built enduro ones which seems to cause people the most problems. Yes it’s technically challenging but it’s certainly not all about balls or pure downhill skills.
chiefgrooveguruFull MemberI feel they should be pretty technical, just missing the huge gaps and drops you might see on a serious DH track and with chicken lines (which add time) for anything that isn’t rollable so the more XC racers can compete with the more DH racers.
From what I’ve heard the Enduro1 series is less technical than the 661/Fetish series (and has a fair bit of pedalling on some stages) but I wouldn’t say it’s like a XC race – the last round had three runs down Tidworth Freeride’s tracks, lots and lots of berms, rollers, drops, doubles, etc and the previous round finished on a FoD DH run. Nothing like the XC courses I’ve seen.
njee20Free MemberSo all of them do have some pretty good pedalling sections, plenty of tricky techy “you have to pick up the good line” bits, and very few jumps.
This is how I’d expect/want them to be. Jumps and drops are a test of balls over skill. Happy for very twitchy technical stuff, but I think big jumps and drops that require commitment belong in DH racing IMO.
kayak23Full MemberJumps and drops are a test of balls over skill
Untrue, I’ve seen plenty of folk with the guts to do something mash themselves up due to not having the ability or technique.
I’d like to see Enduro with more emphasis on the techy downhill, not so much an xc ride on big bikes won by whippets. They can have the pure xc races… 🙂
footflapsFull MemberI’ve ridden part of a Enduro course near Lake Garda (not in a race) and it was at the top end of what I could ride on an XC bike, harder than anything I’ve done in the UK. There wasn’t much line choice as it was really narrow in the rock sections, but lots of big drops in succession with turns in / on them, so you couldn’t just fly over it all. Could see why all the guides rode Nukeproof Megas round there…..
juanFree MemberWhat would you call a “big” drop footlaps? I am curious, down here big is above 1-1.5 m
Anything else isn’t call a drop, just a step.richmtbFull MemberI’ve done a few “enduro” events and other than the format – timed stages they have all been totally different.
The Avalanche enduros were basically trail centre red routes.
The Innerleithen Enduro was pretty much “have a go on our downhill tracks on your 140mm travel bike and see how you get on”.
The Glentress King of the Hill was a mixture of lung busting climbs. Easy trail centre descents and slightly bonkers natural descents. The Glentress King of thehill was definitely the best test of overall riding ability
footflapsFull MemberWhat would you call a “big” drop footlaps? I am curious, down here big is above 1-1.5 m Anything else isn’t call a drop, just a step.
Smaller than that, but you couldn’t just ride off them as they were staircase like ie tight turns, hence you had to roll them, and they were pretty steep for that. Our guide just told us he’d raced this bit of the trail in an Enduro, no idea what the whole course was like.
njee20Free MemberUntrue, I’ve seen plenty of folk with the guts to do something mash themselves up due to not having the ability or technique.
Didn’t say you didn’t need both, merely that they bias one.
They also polarise people – you’ll either do it, or you won’t, and there’s a time advantage/penalty associated with either. I’d rather see a technical descent where you may lose time for going too hard and screwing up, or too slow or whatever.
juanFree MemberI’d rather see a technical descent where you may lose time for going too hard and screwing up,
Well that would be any descent then? Basically most jumps/drops down here are rollable, although it is a bit faster to jump them. But focus is mainly on the skills you’re suppose to use if you’re doing an epic ride in the moutains. So not much jumps, a few but not much
njee20Free MemberWell that would be any descent then? Basically most jumps/drops down here are rollable, although it is a bit faster to jump them.
Well yeah ok, but the more technical you make it the more likely it is that you’ll lose time, and technical (IMO) doesn’t necessarily need to be steep and scary.
Equally steep and scary isn’t necessarily technical!
juanFree MemberEqually steep and scary isn’t necessarily technical!
Well I do beg to differ, a very steep slope with plenty of rocks around a a few hairpins in the middle is very technical as you just can’t screw this one up and you need to carefully pick up your lines and make sure you always are one step ahead of the trail
thisisnotaspoonFree MemberYou’d rather see courses that suit you?
I think you’re being obtuse in missinterpteting his point, there’s a difference between say a 2ft drop with a sloped landing that rewards you with a faster time if you’re good at drops and nail it full speed dropping and gapping 6ft+ , and the same take-off and landing, over a 6ft gap which is just as quick for those with the shill+balls, but for anyone inbetween it needs a chicken run, so whereas before they lost 3 or 4 seconds slowing down so as not to overjump their ability they’re now loseing 10+ seconds riding round a chicken run.
Compared to a more ‘technical’ section which could lose you anywhere between 0 and 10 seconds and therefore spreads the times out a bit rather than you either did or you didn’t.
Basicly the jumps should reward you like everything else with the better you are the more time you save. Otherwise you may as well build a huge dirtjump section mid way down and say “well Dan Atherton can ride it” the rest of you will just have to be 30seconds slower. It doesn’t offer any progression.
NorthwindFull MemberOK, sticking with my Innerleithen theme- because I think it’s fair to say it’s been one of the most succesful venues and one of the homes of the uk enduro scene. No mandatory air on any of the courses so far. Good mixes of surface and of types of riding- forest floor stuff, trail centre stuff, some of it is marked and roughly cleared but not built (I helped build some of the purpose-built enduro trails and it was a case of chucking the logs out of the way and raking a line, barely lifted a shovel never mind a wheelbarrow). Sure it uses dh trails but it’s the off-piste/purpose built stuff that causes people the most trouble. Some absolute lungbursters- a horrible climb in one of the most recent ones, long pedals in others. Technically difficult in places, you could definately say your average red-route warrior would struggle, but you wouldn’t ever think “This is a downhill race”- it’s all just mountain biking, with an emphasis on skills but a dependance on fitness too.
So all in all- a very complete test of different skills, and fitness. And what made me fall in love with the whole idea.
I suppose you could ask Jerome Clementz, he won men’s elites at the innerleithen Fetish enduro and seemed pretty happy.
mr plow – Member
Andy Barlow = ex Scottish DH junior champion I think…
Aye, very true, back in the dawn of time… But his more recent successes were in XC and that’s where he was best known. Just trying to get away from this “former dh” thing as if it’s some line in the sand between them and us. What it amounts to is “really good allround riders win races”
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