It’s not all that odd – it’s quite a simple way to do PR, and one that people understand (STV might work for student union elections, not sure people in the wider world would understand it*). The only problem is it doesn’t seem to produce a very democratic result in some circumstances, as proved by the BNP getting seats.

* there I go being an intellectual snob again

I think ultimately very few people actually like to think about Europe. We recieved absolutely zero information from any of the candidates about what their thoughts and policies were, other than the lib dems who said (and I paraphrase) “the other two can’t do anything but we are different, vote for us” yet still included no info. I voted, I voted for my usual party who I believe cover my views more closely, however I have no idea if the actual candidate I voted for carries those views too and the first time I saw their name was when the ballot paper landed in my front room.

I find the same goes with the local elections too, they send out sod all information regarding themselves and then expect people to vote for them. If they do send out info it’s for the lowest common denominator and could be read in several ways, so they expect me to trawl off round their web sites to try to pick out their views. Ultimately I can almost understand voter apathy.

Well in order to stop idiots from voting for idiotic parties why dont we just restrict voting to people who are actually educated enough to make a rational well thought out choice.

Voting should only be allowed for those who can show a high enough level of intelligence. Set exams and pass them in order to vote. Exams in History, Economics, Sociology, Environment, those types of topic.

Then at least the future of the country is decided by people with some ability. People should earn the right to vote as it affects all of us.

Well in order to stop idiots from voting for idiotic parties why dont we just restrict voting to people who are actually educated enough to make a rational well thought out choice.

Because that would be undemocratic.

If you’re going to think that way, then you might as well carry it to it’s conclusion, which results in enforced dictatorship, or worse…

…a Monarchy.

Oh…

Because that would be undemocratic.

Democracy’s overrated.

Democracy’s overrated.

By fascists.

Rudeboy said (See that middle tower block? That’s where I grew up!)

Is that why they blew it up 20 years ago?

Wrong, Spongebath!

Go away and do your homework again please.

By fascists.

Fascism’s underrated.

Well in order to stop idiots from voting for idiotic parties why dont we just restrict voting to people who are actually educated enough to make a rational well thought out choice.

Voting should only be allowed for those who can show a high enough level of intelligence. Set exams and pass them in order to vote. Exams in History, Economics, Sociology, Environment, those types of topic.

Then at least the future of the country is decided by people with some ability. People should earn the right to vote as it affects all of us.

Brilliant. And then we can privatise education, so only those who can afford the education fees get educated. Or – cut out the whole education thing and just sell voting papers to those who have the money to buy them.

Well in order to stop idiots from voting for idiotic parties why dont we just restrict voting to people who are actually educated enough to make a rational well thought out choice.

Why don’t we just cut out the voting bit too? Have someone really clever to decide what is right for the whole country, the clever and the stupid people. Ssve a bit of cash of ballot papers etc.

I do believe some of the clever well educated people have already brought this country to where it is (bankers, MPs etc.)….

We should have an elected dictator every 5 years. Rather than have elections for this post, people who want to become dictator will line up in a row and I will release a puppy. The person that the puppy first runs towards becomes dictator. Puppies are never wrong about these sorts of things and can smell nasty people.
In the case of lots of people wanting to become dictator there might have to be regional puppy offs to whittle down the numbers.

Well in order to stop idiots from voting for idiotic parties why dont we just restrict voting to people who are actually educated enough to make a rational well thought out choice

Good idea, we don’t need these “untersmensch”. Why don’t we build some camps to house them in too so they don’t bother us. We’ll be safe from the fascist BNP then.

I vote for the puppy as the first dictator…..

I am in favour of PR (puppy representation).

Im confused, why should uneducated people make important decisions. Why dont we educate them first ? (For example, you dont take your bike to Halfords for a wheel build do you)

Voting should be seen as a special privellage which has responsibility. I think you need to earn that through hard work and education.

The value of Democracy is diluted when you extend it to people not fit to use their vote or not fit to make an educated choice. If only people who can hold a rational well informed debate are allowed to vote then those seeking their vote will at least have to have policies, manifestos and slogans that are more than mere soundbites.

Im confused, why should uneducated people make important decisions. Why dont we educate them first ?

Which is why education is compulsory up to 16 (18?) in the UK.

Why do you think more education would make any difference?

Trimix, who’s going to decide who is fit to vote? You?

How unreasonable would it really be to have to pass a little exam on the policies and members of the parties involved in the election in order to be allowed to vote? At least that way people would show they were voting with an informed opinion – and you wouldn’t be excluding anybody on the grounds of education (apart from being able to read and write, but that doesn’t seem a terribly high bar).

Here’s a sample question:
How many convictions does Nick Griffin have?

The problem is less about education and rather more about the information people recieve from the media.

Daily Mirror 1,455,270
Daily Star 751,494
The Sun 3,148,792
Daily Express 748,664
Daily Mail 2,258,843
Daily Telegraph 860,298
Financial Times 417,570
The Guardian 332,587
The Independent 230,033
The Times 612,779

Is it any wonder that most political debate in this country has descended to the level of ‘I don’t like darkies’?

Education may be compulsory, but sadly you can still leave school uneducated. Why not make it so you can only leave when you have been educated to a high standard. If you had to pick a team to do something you would pick the best you could. So why not extend that to all levels of society and ensure you bring the average level higher up. Then we all win.

Im not clever enough to pick the best, but Im smart enough to go and look for experts and dig down to find out their motivation, credentials and ability.

Get profesional teachers together with businesses to set the required standard of education needed to leave school and vote. Keep the bar high and make it hard to achive. Dont dumb it down, not everyone is clever or capable. Like mountain biking, we cant all win the race, some of us cant even finish.

Any important choice needs to be made with two main ingredients, education and experience. You can actually teach one of those. Look at your own lives, whenever you look back at the choices you made the best ones are the ones that were well thought out with the right information. Sometimes luck comes into it, but have you ever noticed how the most unlucky people are the uneducated ones. If you want luck go and look for it, it wont find you.

The media does have a lot to answer for. Perhaps a good education will teach you why quality informaion and quality media is important.

IanMunro, interesting, but simple and no fun for the audience.
Perhaps it should be settled by a giant version of Battling Tops, where the tops are 75’9″ high. A thick cable can be wound round the Battling Tops, which could be pulled by a team of carefully chosen supporters of each candidate. The candidate would sit at the top of the Battling Top and steer it. Perhaps the cockip should be stabilised in order not to be spinning round really, really fast like the rest of the Battling Top. This would help ensre that we have a fit and healthy government ready to take the front line and defend the country in the event of a war. In the event of a war, the politicians could be replaced by big dogs, bigger rats and trained killer monkeys. They wouldn’t do much, but the parliament channel would be a bit more fun to watch.

This is a prototype version, but only works if the politicians are very small, like that talking mouse that was in a film recently. It fails because limiting parliamentary democracy to talking mice is considered a little restrictive.

Dont dumb it down, not everyone is clever or capable.

Woah, hold on a minute. What about poor Kylies “deferred success”?

Seriously though, there does seem an idea running through all these BNP threads that people who voted for them shouldn’t be allowed to vote and actually I’m far cleverer than you are and therefore I know best.

Yes, if you are of a certain status, have enough money to buy a £2000 mountain bike you have certain views on the world. If you have just been made unemployed/a result of (Labours?) poor education policies/watched your job go overseas etc then maybe you have a different point of view.

Much as I don’t like it, BNP are a legit political party. If the Labour government chose to allow them then that’s their decision they might regret. I bet a large proportion of BNP voters we lifelong Labour voters, maybe their MPs didn’t stick up for their constituencies feeling and had to toe the party line.

cross post

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/shame-on-you-northeners/page/3

Some fresh data to go with the argument of the origins of the BNP voters:
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/who+voted+bnp+and+why/3200557

First, who voted BNP? They were mainly men: their voted divided 61 per cent male, 39 per cent female. (Men comprise just 48 per cent in the electorate as a whole.)

They were also more working-class. In the country at large, professional workers outnumber manual workers by 20 per cent to 18 per cent. Among BNP voters the pattern is very different: 36 per cent manual workers, 11 per cent professionals.

One third of them read the Sun or Daily Star as against one in five adults generally; just 6 per cent of BNP voters read the upmarket papers (Times, Telegraph, Guardian etc), which is less than half the national average.

…

But perhaps the most startling finding came when we tested anecdotal reports that many BNP voters were old Labour sympathisers who felt that the party no longer speaks up for them. It turns out to be true. As many as 59 per cent of BNP voters think that Labour “used to care about the concerns of people like me but doesn’t nowadays”.