dissonance – the UK are the masters. all those crown dependencies and other assorted offshore havens .

ninfan – Member
we are in a negotiation
Yeah, but we hold no cards, the EU holds them all,

that’s why the U.K. had to cave in today and the Irish got the guarantees they wanted.

The Irish dont want a hard border, fine… now perhaps someone could tell me again how holding up negotiations and increasing the chance of no deal (which we are willing to walk away with, because as we said from the start, it’s better than a bad deal) helps deliver that?

The mistake you make here (and so does, bizarrely, a Tory PM) is because you don’t understand their position.
The DUP don’t want a deal. This isn’t a commerce thing for them. They only want money to help them win votes.

I’ve had some contract negotiation training and will be the first to admit that I’m no expert, but have sat around the table in big public sector deals that my firm has tried to broker and tried to find that viewpoint of my client, the “golden bridge”.

So, the DUP can’t possibly go back to their base and say: we took you a step closer to a United Ireland today, and escape unscathed at the next election. With the DUP- there’s no golden bridge available in having any unity between the North and South that differs from that between the North and mainland.

I dont know if its too much of a stretch to say that they would be risking their lives to even suggest so. I’m regularly in Belfast these days and the murals tell the story.

Or that Nigel Farage isn’t currently in exile for daring to lead the rebellion

I wasnt aware he did an illegal referendum inside the UK to get, oh I dont know, Thanet maybe free from UK control.
Aside from anything else he would have had to get elected to power inside the UK first.

all those crown dependencies and other assorted offshore havens .

Not really. They certainly compete but part of the problem is the UK government doesnt have much say over several of them.
Admittedly parts of the city do make use of them but its not quite as bred into the political system as Luxembourg and Ireland.
Dont get me wrong there is plenty wrong with the UK approach but we dont stand out compared to some EU countries. Although, of course, certain of the rabid right would like to change that and hence their support for brexit.

The FT is reporting that Tory MPs are once again judging people by their own standards and suggesting that Theresa offers the DUP more money to play ball.

“Like a vending machine for political solutions”

I don’t think they really understand Oirish politics 😆

dissonance – I strongly disagree. The UK government could call theose tax havens to account if it wanted and could do plenty to stop the tax avoidance but it doesn’t want to. those various crown dependencies are the bigget tax avoidence players

binners – Member
The FT is reporting that Tory MPs are once again judging people by their own standards and suggesting that Theresa offers the DUP more money to play ball.

I don’t think they really understand Oirish politics

POSTED 2 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

They’d need a lot to buy new identities and plastic surgery all-round.

They just don’t get it, do they? They think it’s about money. I spent a lot of time over there at the height of the troubles. They’ve absolutely no idea, or no respect, for what they’re playing with! (Probably both)

I just hope their total cultural insensitivity and incompetence don’t take us back to that

It seems like they’re being wilfully ignorant. But that pretty much sums up Brexit. A celebration of stupidity

Regardless of your view on brexshit, the agreement is astounding. They thought it would be ok and didnt think to run it past the NI MP’s!!

Incompetence beyond words.

The FT is reporting that Tory MPs are once again judging people by their own standards and suggesting that Theresa offers the DUP more money to play ball.

“Like a vending machine for political solutions”

I don’t think they really understand Oirish politics

FTFY.

If that’s true, it suggests that HM Government is royally shitting itself.

That’ll be an ‘alternative view’ that has just been made up by ninfan and released onto the Internet to acquire the status of ‘truth’.

You’re probably giving Zulu a bit too much credit there as I’m sure I heard the upstanding Sammy Wilson (“Taigs don’t pay rates.”) on the radio earlier saying much the same thing in one of his “you can’t trust those Fenians in any negotiation” type tirades.

He’s an absolute top bloke that Sammy Wilson. When you’re getting your opinions from him, you really need to have a think. 😆

there is no payment large enough to make the DUP give up their Britishness

The UK government could call theose tax havens to account if it wanted

How exactly, given that the U.K. government has zero constitutional power in them?

I can only imagine how much you would scream if the U.K. govt started throwing its weight around on issues devolved to the Scottish government.

The UK government could call theose tax havens to account if it wanted and could do plenty to stop the tax avoidance but it doesn’t want to

I would disagree in turn with that. If they try throwing their weight around the dependancies will look for alternatives (or cave in). Given Maybots negotiating skills I cant see it going to well.
Anyways back to the great news of the day. I thought the grown ups had taken over and everything is now perfect but oddly enough no one else seems to be taking that line.

Britain is increasingly being presented as the dirty-dealing, tax-cheating black sheep of Europe

In the context of today’s news that is truly brilliant

They are by far the most British people in the British Isles. There is nobody more British than the DUP. 😆

Jeez, what a bunch of muppets. They really have backed themselves into a corner. Sinn Féin must be pissing themselves – they haven’t had to do a thing.

deadlydarcy – Member

They are by far the most British people in the British Isles. There is nobody more British than the DUP.

Jeez, what a bunch of muppets. They really have backed themselves into a corner.

What was it she said. That they absolutely would not accept any deal that meant NI was treated differently from the rest of the UK?

So, not even a much better deal? The DUP absolutely and resolutely will not accept any deal which benefits the people of Northern Ireland. They absolutely will insist on exactly the same terms as the rest of the uk even if it means dire consequences for everyone on the island of Ireland.

More stellar leadership from the woman who (literally) burned 500 million pounds worth of public money, most of which ended up suspiciously enough heating Free P churches and farms and business run by senior DUP members, Orange Order members and Free P clergy.

I’ve noticed the total silence from Sinn Féin. They must be literally laughing themselves to pieces watching this shitstorm unfold

I’d love to see them rock up at Westminster tomorrow morning to take their seats. Just for shits and giggles 😆

Well Ireland have agreed to tax Apple but Gibralta is doing nothing about AIRB&B.

http://www.lemonde.fr/entreprises/article/2017/12/04/l-irlande-va-collecter-les-arrieres-d-impots-exiges-a-apple-par-bruxelles_5224408_1656994.html

agreed is a bit strong didnt the EU have to take them to court and the opposed

Forced is more accurate but I agree no one is forcing the UK to tax its tax avoiders as we are amongst the worst in the world for this

[url=https://flic.kr/p/228h1Jb]DQOxk-RXcAg78a1[/url] by james anderson, on Flickr

Wasn’t it Juncker who when asked about Britain becoming a tax haven, noted ‘it already is’

True, but coming from the former President of Luxembourg…..

The EU must be truly thanking Dave for instigating this whole debacle and making it look, by far, the least worst option

What was it she said. That they absolutely would not accept any deal that meant NI was treated differently from the rest of the UK?

But the DUP don’t count trivial issues like abortion and blasphemy which are crimes in NI but not in GB…

I love the cartoon, summed up perfectly.

Pretty much sums up today’s utter farce

So if the leavers aren’t getting what they thought they voted for and the ‘remoaners’ think it’s a shit idea anyway, remind me why we are doing this again?

Democracy apparently.

Left field comment – should we have called for a public inquiry immediately after the referendum but before submitting article 50?

It’s a bit of a rhetorical question, mind.

Into why thickos were allowed to have a say?

should we have called for a public inquiry immediately after the referendum but before submitting article 50?

Yes but everyone knew the main outcome would be it’s a terrible idea and it will cost billions to achieve nothing good. So in order to make brexit happen they disconnected the brakes, restrained the passenger’s, fitted sound proofing and aimed us at the cliff.

As I’ve said, rhetorical question.

You do have a thing about thickos THM. Give it up, it’s worn thin.

Yes there was a correlation between education and remain, but please feel free to stop labouring it.

We all know already. And it’s just you that mentions it these days.

I don’t. I think they have as much a say as everyone else. They could even post here if they wanted to.

If they only have a few brain cells they would be able to misunderstand everything.

It’s not about ‘thickos’

It’s about lies

However this rolling national catastrophe plays out, to me the definitive image of the whole debacle will be the looks on the ashen faces of this pair of self-serving charlatans when they realised what they’d done

And it’s been all downhill since then

I’d happily string the pair of them up!

it’s just you that mentions it these days

It’s his obsession the poor dear. Hell it beats having put up an argument though. Along with the Will of the people, and gNats. Oh and don’t forget the ‘strategic’ 😯 whilst ignoring any difficult question. His ‘pal’ will be along in a minute just wait and see….

I like the defensive skills of the loyal tories.. It’s (nearly) like Australia batting last night, just play your shot and ignore where the ball went, ignore the ref, ignore the commentators, ignore the crowd and keep going.

To take a step back for a moment, TM tacitly acknowledged the divisions in society, immediately before empowering the hard Tory right to exacerbate them. Probably because Brexit is cheaper than fixing society.

But we live in a representative democracy, we vote for people to represent us with the best information and advice. None of us knew the extent of what we’re getting into.

This is why we should’ve had a public inquiry, chaired by experts with no political influence forced upon them.

The thing with the thickos these days is that they take pride in their thickness and ignorance and wear it as a badge of honour – I was embarrassed to be a thicko and did something to try and change it.

Nice obsession you are developing there MH

Regarding thickos , my mum voted leave as her friend had a Nigerian nurse be nasty to her in hospital.
Another friend who lives in Cornwall voted leave as all the fish caught in Cornish waters have to go off to a central eu fish market and then sold back to us.