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EU Referendum – are you in or out?
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igmFull Member
THM – I wouldn’t want to add to your undoubted confusion
inconcerning this matter. 😉I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it.
PoopscoopFull Memberdannyh
Whatever happens, Brexit is the end of Tory government for a long, long time. It is a problem of their own making and seeing them wriggle, squirm and in-fight is thoroughly entertaining.
Absolutely!
The only good thing to come out of this utter s*** fest!
tjagainFull MemberLeo Varadkar, the Irish taoiseach, has said he is “disappointed and surprised” that the agreement reached between Ireland and Britain this morning was no longer acceptable to Theresa May.
So May conceded and then couldn’t get the DUP to agree. How weak is she? making agreements then not being able to honour them..
Utter idiotFresh Goods Friday 696: The Middling Edition
Latest Singletrack VideosFresh Goods Friday 696: The Middlin...nick1962Free MemberSo apparently Arlene Foster wants NI to be treated the same as the rest of the UK?
So I take it she’ll be sending that £1 billion back then?
There’s 3 weeks worth of extra money for the NHS 😉codybrennanFree Memberteamhurtmore – Member
But good to see that you have now recognised that the Irish border comes after the agreement over what form of access to the SM and CU is negotiated. So quite a bit of progress today all-in-all
Didn’t follow that, could you explain? Surely finalising and agreeing the NI border matter has to predate the SM/CU part?
igmFull MemberSo as far as I can tell today…
May rolled over for the EU.
Arlene rang.
May rolled over for Arlene.
Dublin were going to make a statement on the state of affairs, but, given they couldn’t work out what the state of affairs was, decided not to.
Scotland, Wales and London said if there are special deals going count us in. Rumours that York said the same are unproven.
Everyone went home saying it had all been jolly fun and they’d try again later in the week.
Except Arlene.Did I miss anything?
Kind of reminded me of those few days in the TdF mountains where Froome blew up into the airport, we all thought it might get interesting, but as they left the mountains his lead was exactly what it was as they went in.
Everything happened and nothing happened.
dannyhFree MemberWhat is the official scale for balls-ups by the way.
Is it shambles then fiasco then farce?
Or a different permutation?
Brexit (or at least what the loons perceive as Brexit) cannot and will not happen.
The Tories are heading for the wilderness – and long may they stay there.
If their vote goes below a certain level, there may even be a (please, please let it happen) split in the party that leads to a proper centrist opposition but ensures that the loons are never let near to any position of influence again.
As far as I like to think, that’s what a decade or more of economic self-harm might just be worth paying for.
tjagainFull Membercodybrennan – Member
teamhurtmore – Member
But good to see that you have now recognised that the Irish border comes after the agreement over what form of access to the SM and CU is negotiated. So quite a bit of progress today all-in-all
Didn’t follow that, could you explain? Surely finalising and agreeing the NI border matter has to predate the SM/CU part? [/quote]
Yes it does. ( unless you live in tory la la land). The shape of any final trade deal will mean details need to be adjusted but the Irish need to hear how a open border can be achieved on the island of Ireland in accordence with the GFA and the EU need to hear how this border will be secure as do the rabid leavers
dannyhFree MemberIncidentally, we were just debating whether you’d whine for getting a warning or not. I won.
On this particular point (because it is so funny), we are back where we were about a year ago.
Kids poking dogs with sticks then going crying to mummy when the dog bites.
The difference being that most kids learn in the end.
😐
tjagainFull MemberThe influential Brexiteer Jacob Rees-Mogg said that Tory MPs would not allow the regulation even of Northern Ireland to be aligned with the EU.
“We cannot align the regulation of one part of the United Kingdom with the European Union. If we align the whole of the United Kingdom then we haven’t left the European Union so there is a logical impossibility of doing what the Irish government proposes,” he told reporters outside the meeting of backbench Conservative MPs.
this is the loons May has to deal with. These rabid loons will block anything that hints at concessions – and the UK government is committed to no borders on the island =of Ireland. trouble is the Leavers have been so busy promising everything to everyone that they don’t have a braincell to spare to think about difficult issues like this
binnersFull MemberMay is valiantly performing a valuable international service though
The most corrupt, incompetent banana republics on the planet are presently thanking her for making them look like a model of good governance
centralscrutinizerFree MemberIs it shambles then fiasco then farce?
A complete and utter ####ing shambles is the highest level as far as I know 😆
mattyfezFull MemberA complete and utter ####ing shambles is the highest level as far as I know
Well if the current scale runs from 1 to 10, brexit is a solid 18.
So we’re going to have to find a further 7 descriptive words to attribute to levels eleven to seventeen.thecaptainFree MemberOmnishambles was somewhere on the scale but we went past it a long time ago
MurrayFull MemberJust spent a happy 5 minutes getting Google Translate to tell me the French, Spanish, Swedish etc for “Swivel eyed loonie”
kelvinFull MemberMay just needs to placate the DUP, several key ministers, and many of her backbenchers – over the phone – mid negotiation with a team representing the interests of the biggest FTA in the world. Easy! I genuinely feel sorry for her.
PJM1974Free MemberI think that we’re all agreed that it’s turning into a disaster.
May and the Conservatives made a confidence and supply deal with the DUP, stopping short of a coalition that would be a red line for Sinn Fein. A coalition with the SNP or Lib Dems was out of the question, so May has been the architect of this particular cluster-blank and I hope that she’s got a contingency plan to placate the DUP.
dissonanceFull MemberI think that we’re all agreed that it’s turning into a disaster.
Eh? Didnt THM tell us it was all going fine now.
and I hope that she’s got a contingency plan to placate the DUP.
I dont think that is possible is it? They are in even more of a dreamworld than the rest of the brexit nutters.
tjagainFull MemberWhat will / can May do now? No solution on NI and still bits on the other two issues. She cannot carry parliament on any deal that is acceptable to the EU. So no trade talks, no deal. the CBI will be up in arms at no deal, I really don’t see what her next move is.
kelvinFull MemberThe problem with avoiding “showing your hand”, is that when you make your move, it can come as a surprise to the very people that you need to agree to the plan that you refused to let them see in advance… you own supposed political allies.
At some point, “the people” will want to be consulted as well… you can’t play secret games forever… at some point decisions need to made, and made public. Only then can you begin to measure the support for a Brexit more specific than “Brexit means Brexit”.
teamhurtmoreFree MemberDidn’t follow that, could you explain? Surely finalising and agreeing the NI border matter has to predate the SM/CU part?
Only if you are an EU member who wants to delay proper negotiations Cody or a remoaner who likes to make things up.
There are various forms that our future access to the single market and vv may take. Each of them have implications for the nature our our borders. So it’s all a bit silly to insist on an end solution when the question that needs to be solved has not been defined.
On the contrary PJM. We are seeing progress towards a deal – albeit slow and not straightforward – that means the disaster scenarios are becoming much less likely. Much to the chagrin of the remoaners. Hence the need for wild exaggeration
ninfanFree MemberAnyone just hear Varadkar?
There’s a deal.
Ok let’s announce that.
Hello, is that Leo?
Yep, what’s up Terry?
Ah, about that deal…that bloody difficult woman in Belfast!The alternative point of view appears to be that Varadkar or EU tried to leak a draft copy of the agreement in order to bounce May into agreeing to their wording, but she held firm.
I fail to see any benefit for May in releasing the Draft, particularly given th3 later revision seems to have been towards UK position rather than away from
PJM1974Free MemberNegotiations are ongoing, she can either ask the DUP just how much they want the money promised in June, or she can try to tacitly gain cross party support to overrule in the Commons. My guess is that there will be an attempt made to sweeten the DUP somehow.
Or she could jack it all in, buy a shed and write her memoirs titled “Running through fields of wheat without EU subsidy” and mark time to her retirement with a job in the charity sector.
tjagainFull MemberThe alternative point of view appears to be that Varadkar or EU tried to leak a draft copy of the wording in order to bounce May into their wording, but she held firm.
Yeah right. May and Varadker agreed a form of words and May tried to bounce the DUP
mattjgFree MemberSo May, ostensibly the PM of one of the world’s leading nations with 660 Parliamentarians, agrees a major international agreement with the world’s largest free trade block, and de facto goes public.
The regional special interest party with only 10 MPs yanks her chain and blocks the whole thing.
How can her position possibly be tenable?
dazhFull MemberI think if I were May I’d be doing a John Major right now. It could be her honourable way out. Call their bluff with the threat of Jezza in the background. If they vote against her, they can’t blame her.
kelvinFull MemberSo it’s all a bit silly to insist on an end solution when the question that needs to be solved has not been defined.
You can agree a minimum border scenerio, but work towards a deal that might provide something better.
codybrennanFree Memberninfan – Member
The alternative point of view appears to be that Varadkar or EU tried to leak a draft copy of the agreement in order to bounce May into agreeing to their wording, but she held firm.Was she staunch do you think?
Nah, face it- she got a call from Foster who pulled her reins in. Plain as day. And so says Kuenssberg:
Hearing it was the DUP call that sunk today's chances of a deal – Foster held her press conf, 20 mins later May leaves talks with Juncker to call her, goes back into the room and the deal is off
— Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) December 4, 2017
kiloFull MemberI’d have thought the alternative point of view could just as easily be equally be that swivel eyed loons in Mays teams leaked to spike the deal. Also that doesn’t involve the ridiculous concept of May holding firm.
teamhurtmore – Member
Didn’t follow that, could you explain? Surely finalising and agreeing the NI border matter has to predate the SM/CU part?
Only if you are an EU member who wants to delay proper negotiationsOr if you believe politics, continued peace etc trumps economics;
From RTE just now
Varadkar said he hopes an agreement can be concluded in coming days.He said Ireland cannot progress to Phase Two of Brexit negotiations unless there are guarantees that a border will not re-emerge “under any circumstances.”
tjagainFull MemberSo it’s all a bit silly to insist on an end solution when the question that needs to be solved has not been defined.
This more THM nonsense?
Its obvious to anyone with a few working brain cells why this has to be done first. If the UK cannot form some sort of border that works then everything else is off.
slowoldmanFull MemberWell with a bit of luck the NI situation will scupper Brexit completely.
GrahamSFull MemberInteresting reading some of the top comments on the BBC piece:
UK and EU fail to strike Brexit talks deal (BBC)
Lots of wild hyperbole from Leavers about the EU “blackmailing” us or being “dictators” – very little recognition that we are conducting a negotiation where compromises need to be made and the EU are in a pretty strong negotiating position.
Examples:
And if we had voted Remain ?.. The UK forced to give up the pound and join the Euro ? And finally, become part of a single state, run by Germany ?
Britain is being blackmailed by the despotic, dictatorial EU..
The EU is bankrupt, fiscally and morally!
Looks like we’ve paid the ransom…
One day we’ll look back on this part of our history as the moment we sold our soul to appease the Liberal Left.It’s not just Remoaners that whine then 🙄
“Hence the need for wild exaggeration” 😆
teamhurtmoreFree MemberYou can agree a minimum border scenerio, but work towards a deal that might provide something better.
Indeed you are articulating the positions outlined in both sides’ briefing documents
igmFull MemberThey only need to get on with it then THM.
And take the DUP with them.
I probably shouldn’t be finding this funny I know, but watching the Brexies fall out and swivel in the wind is fundamentally hilarious.
teamhurtmoreFree MemberTJ fortunately some people have more than just a few brain cells. Helps them understand why the opposite is true.
Remember you were arguing that everyone involved were intellectually challenged and that no progress was possible. Both proved totally wrong.
The bill solution was a master stroke of how sensible negotiators and grown ups work.
spekkieFree MemberHey Tories, remember the people you had to get into bed with after you lost the election? You should have given them more money . . . .
🙂
codybrennanFree MemberWhat a comical situation the Cons find themselves in. Everyone forgets what the DUP are like. I grew up in a West of Scotland town where their malign influence (and that of the RA) was still apparent- they’ll never move.
Their red line is as follows: No Surrender, No Retreat. There’s no way they’ll take their base along with anything that looks or sounds like a united Ireland. They’ll happily take the money, and thats about it.
This government is effectively over if this DUP S&C thing can’t be revived, and if I know my Loyalists, they’ll never move.
jam-boFull MemberThe bill solution was a master stroke of how sensible negotiators and grown ups work.
You mean paying what they asked for after months of saying we wouldn’t? We sure bamboozled them there…
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