igm – Member

I will admit to being a little disappointed as this progress does make the end goal of not leaving the EU a little harder to achieve.

Ah but it’s a step towards a brexit that makes literally nobody happy. Huzzah!

Every step that puts clarity on what the replacement for EU membership really will be, will increase support for remaining a member. Very unlikely that Brexit will be stopped (or delayed), but support for such a move will continue to increase as a single “real deal” appears, and the multiple conflicting deals and unicorn promises are put to bed.

Another easy compromise because despite what the nutters say, if you are exporting into a market you have to abide by their standards anyway. So a very easy compromise.

Trade soon….

Only the fool thinks the cake exists in the mouth and on the plate simultaneously.

I visit a motorbike forum who are very very leave (or run awayers as I call them).
They are very very quiet.

DUP sources said they did not believe the draft posted by RTE earlier (see 11.44am) had been agreed by the British government. They said they suspected that the leak of the draft document was designed to “bounce” May and the British negotiators into a deal over the heads of the DUP.

The DUP are also confident that they have support among the Tory back benches to oppose any move by May and the government to accept this Brexit-Irish border blueprint, the sources said.

The PM is caught in the perfect storm, the situation is thus:

1) If Clinton had won the US election, a UK-US trade deal would’ve been far easier to sell to the electorate. Unfortunately, a divisive demagogue with a history of reneging on trade deals won instead.

2) Europe is THE most divisive issue within the Conservative Party. A hard Brexit would be a horrific scenario for three-quarters of Tory MPs. A significant amount of contributions to the party come from businesses and farmers, who stand to significantly lose out in event of a WTO Brexit.

3) Appeasing the Hard Brexiteers is likely to lose the Conservatives the next election and probably the one after that. The party is in a mess, having taken only seven years to plunge into dysfunction and even a partisan media won’t be enough to save them.

4) Labour have understandably stood back from the sidelines and watched the shitshow unfold, knowing that the last thing they actually want is to be handed a poisoned chalice, which is exactly what will happen if the government collapses. They appear to be adhering to the text of the referendum ballot, which stipulated Single Market access.

5) If Theresa May backs away from a Hard Brexit, the issue of Europe will continue to haunt the Conservative Party with a probable damaging euro-sceptic rebellion further down the line.

6) It is only a matter of time before someone leaks those heavily redacted impact assessment reports. No-one (yet) outside of the various select committees have seen them, but suffice it is to say that they are sufficiently damaging to ensure that MPs obfuscated over their release.

7) No-one in their right mind wants to be a Conservative Prime Minister right now. The leadership challengers are waiting in the wings because their most optimistic move to grab power would be on the back of a general election loss and subsequent term of parliament rebuilding the party in opposition.

8) Ireland. Either allow NI regulatory alignment with Eire, or the resulting hard border between the two regions crosses a line for both Dublin and the DUP. Such a move could potentially plunge Northern Ireland into unrest, which could not easily be blamed on the actions of a few extremists.

9) a PM promoted beyond her competence and surrounded by nutters and rebels and facing an oppo who hold all the cards (apparently), with a weak minority government, and bullies who want to squeeze her into a corner, might, just might, pull of a result.

What were the odds on that!!

I do hope our bulldog negotiating tactics won’t scare off potential foreign investors.

teamhurtmore – Member
9) a PM promoted beyond her competence and surrounded by nutters and rebels and facing an oppo who hold all the cards (apparently), with a weak minority government, and bullies who want to squeeze her into a corner, might, just might, pull of a result.

What were the odds on that!!

I think the reality is, everyone, including the brexit nutters are clueless and scared about what comes next, so theyre secretly happy to let May take the lead

What were the odds on that!!

about the same as god being true

THM – You don’t seriously believe that do you?

All of the evidence thus far suggests that our PM is barely competent. Granted, she’s only been in office since July 2016, so I can only fall back on her career at the Home Office for an assessment of her record in government.

BBC saying now that deal wont be done today

and it looks like the agreement may have failed already…

DUP are putting the blockers on it.

Unfortunately, eighteen months of bungling and a cavalier attitude towards the causes of the Referendum result, not to mention MPs putting party before country have brought us to the point where it’s conceivable that the government may fall before xmas.

The smartest thing they could do is try to form a government of national unity and postpone Brexit pending a public inquiry, however the hard-right of the party wouldn’t countenance that. I think they’d rather hand the poisoned chalice to Labour and watch them implode from afar.

a PM promoted beyond her competence and surrounded by nutters and rebels and facing an oppo who hold all the cards (apparently), with a weak minority government, and bullies who want to squeeze her into a corner, might, just might, pull of a result.

my 2p: there’ll be a deal because EU want one and it will be on the EU’s terms. the postponement is so May can run back to Dacre et al saying “look there I was being a bloody difficult woman like I promised”. it’s a bit of gracious face saving from Juncker is all.

Oh dear Junker belched

PJM – agreed her track record has been poor. That’s why it would be quite something if she managed to pull off some kind of deal, especially with everything going on around her. Last laugh and all that….

Juncker: No deal reached on Irish border.

Scotland, Wales and London all want the same regulatory alignment deal as Northern Ireland.

They appear to be adhering to the text of the referendum ballot, which stipulated Single Market access.

Must have missed that bit on my ballot paper

The press seems to be having problems of its’ own. The Daily Heil is obviously feeling the backlash by the moderate majority, as is The Sun. The Telegraph has been hollowed out to the point that journalistic staff have been cut to the bone.

Newspaper headlines are becoming increasingly shrill in a way that smacks of desperation. Sooner or later, there will be a public backlash.

Must have missed that bit on my ballot paper

Here

We were explicitly told by many prominent politicians from the Leave camp that leaving the EU would not mean leaving the Single Market.

So, who do we think “leaked” draft wording of an agreement that suggested accepting U.K. continued EU regulations?

Phew – looks like phase 2 can commence soon. Well done the grown ups. Despite all the **** going on around then they look like to have pulled of some sensible compromises here. Shame it took so long but not easy.

Good job that remoaners who claimed none of this would be possible look like they are being proved wrong. No wonder the £ is up too!

That post aged well.

ninfan – Member
So, who do we think “leaked” draft wording of an agreement that suggested accepting U.K. continued EU regulations?

someone with a long list of political misteps & poor leadership skills desperate to get fired from a job she hates that has brought her nothing but misery ?

ninfan – Member
So, who do we think “leaked” draft wording of an agreement that suggested accepting U.K. continued EU regulations?

Probably May?

So deal has failed I take it?

Today anyway?

How long until she reveals Freedom of Movement will continue as well?

From the Beeb:

The BBC’s political editor said Mr Lamberts had said the UK was prepared to accept that Northern Ireland may remain in the EU’s customs union and single market in all but name. But, she stressed, the BBC has not seen the draft document nor has it been signed off

The DUP are going to go mental….

We..the ballot paper simply asked “should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?”

No mention on single market

My point being that prominent members of the Leave campaign explicitly stated that we would remain part of the Single Market.

I’ve supplied a citation to support that assertion.

Why, you don’t think that we were lied to do you?

Twodogs – Member
We..the ballot paper simply asked “should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?”

No mention on single market

In hindsight that ballot paper was deeply flawed as this whole mess has shown.

It was never going to be as simple as a pure binary choice.

So all the UK to remain in the customs union and a raft of resignations from the cabinet? Seems as likely an outcome as any other.

I think that a personal slur

Nonsense.
You claimed the text of the referendum question made reference to the Single Market. Honest mistake? Fair enough. Someone else claims you lied, tell them it was just a mistake not a deception, explain your point in a different way, move on. Nothing to report there. This isn’t the House of Commons.

Hearing it was the DUP call that sunk today’s chances of a deal – Foster held her press conf, 20 mins later May leaves talks with Juncker to call her, goes back into the room and the deal is off

Laura Kuenssberg

So the DUP have scuppered this deal already. Inevitable and just as I said eeks ago. any deal on NI that satisfies the DUP will not satisfy Dublin or the EU and vice versa

In hindsight that ballot paper was deeply flawed as this whole mess has shown.

It was never going to be as simple as a pure binary choice.

Absolutely…and all I’m doing is pointing out an inaccuracy in a statement.

I posted that senior members of the Leave camp stated on numerous occasions that we would remain in the single market in event of a leave vote. I supplied a citation to support my statement.

There was ample opportunity to present a counter argument without resorting to personal insult. I stand by that.

I seem to have provoked a strong response by that statement.

salad_dodger – Member
So all the UK to remain in the customs union and a raft of resignations from the cabinet? Seems as likely an outcome as any other.

Possible but I think the DUP are going to be the ones truly exploding over any special status given to NI.

NI is a paradox, it can’t be solved if the UK truly leave the EU unless there is a hard border which the EU won’t accept. Paradox.

I’ve supplied a citation to support that assertion.

Which was full of lies, as proven by my own citation

pjm – leavers said anything to anybody that they thought they wanted to hear.